Thank you all for the imput. I discussed this with my other half and we decided to rehome this particular roo. In the interest of furthering both my education and this discussion in general (and I value all opinions here) Is it that all roos have this instinct and should be allowed no contact with children until the child is able to fully understand the rooster behavior and react appropriately? Or that its just certain breeds or birds are aggressive; and once shown as such should then not be trusted?
For context; my birds are in a locked coop/run that she can not open by herself and is never allowed inside without Mom/Dad within arms reach. But for me a bit part of having a flock is the opportunity to teach her how to care for her animals and where her food comes from so eliminating her contact is not an option. The question then becomes; can I keep a roo?
I would NOT rehome this cock. He is dangerous; in the days of the small family farm it was not uncommon for children to be disfigured or blinded by irate roosters, or killed by flocks of geese. He is a perfect example of how she can learn where her food comes from - although I might not dispatch him in front of her. Plucking should be fine if you talk with her and explain how he gave his life so she could have chicken and dumplings and part of this was because he was a bad daddy chicken because he was mean to people who fed him. Or what reflects your personal beliefs.
He belongs on a dinner plate. His genetics need to go no further. Aggression is heritable, and one of he ways domestication has worked is that nasty, aggressive male animals that attacked people became dinner, while the ones with the nice disposition were kept around and given girlfriends. In some cases, nasty males simply were neutered if, like oxen, donkeys, and horses, they could be used for work.
Some breeds and strains within breeds are more prone to aggression than others.
I would go around to the feed stores and find one where the staff seems to know something about chickens. Or go to a chicken show and ask there. Find a strain where the roosters are prone to being easy to handle.
Need some advise on an agressive roo. Our BCM roo is 4 months old and he is getting more and more agressive with my daughter (she's 3 but big for her age). He's in a pen with 3 adult hens, and my 4 month olds - 4 pullets and 3 other roos (2 bantam and a Light Sussex); I know, to many boys but the bantam pen should be done soon.
Last week he kinda jumped at her while she was bending down to pick up one of the hens. I thought maybe he was being protective of his girl but I grabbed him; carried him around under my arm for about 5 mins and put him back. No problems for a few days. Then he straight jumped on her while she was holding one of the bantam roos (both of which allow her to carry them around). Ok, not about the girls... but again, grabbed him, football carry for 5-10 mins and then put him down.
I've been teaching her to stand her ground and be firm but gentle with the chickens and we've had no issues with the other boys. Then today when we went to give the morning treats he tried again! I've been super aware of his behavior so I was able to jump between them before he got her but this was a full on attack. My first thought was he has to go but hes my husbands favorite (he got to pick the roo we're keeping) and I'd like to see if there is anyway to "cure" him of the behavior.
Anyone been able to gentle a roo like this? Is it perhaps the breed? Or teenage hormones that will mellow after a while? Or is this a problem I'm going to have with any roo due to my daughters size/age? (FYI I do NOT allow her in the pen/coop without an adult but I don't want to have to be on constant defense mode just so that she can visit with "her" chickens)
Thanx!
I think a lot of things could be at play here- he is a hormonal teen coming into breeding age, he's got protective instincts and animals seem to have difficulty interpreting the movement/intent of small children (he could have been protecting his hens and later handling the other rooster may have come across as trying to assert herself within the pecking order), chickens tend to have trouble inferring that one human being established as the boss means other humans are the boss as well, etc. I have a three year old daughter, too (well, four tomorrow) and a pen full of already hefty sized BCM cockerels about the same age as yours. I would not let her into that pen. With an aggressive animal, even if you were willing to go all out trying every trick in the book to amend the behavior, I think you should ask if you would be willing to keep him if the behavior never changed. That is how I approach it. You may be able to train an animal to contain human aggression, but with children I would never let myself believe it was gone. I grew up around roosters and geese that respected/feared/avoided my dad and certain older kids, but would give the rest of the family hell at any available opportunity. I have one sister who is still terrified of birds because of it, but for me it just made me better at reading roosters and understanding how to physically communicate with the birds. Not a lot of help in this part, just some of the things that have gone through my mind when faced with similar circumstances.
Thank you all for the imput. I discussed this with my other half and we decided to rehome this particular roo. In the interest of furthering both my education and this discussion in general (and I value all opinions here) Is it that all roos have this instinct and should be allowed no contact with children until the child is able to fully understand the rooster behavior and react appropriately? Or that its just certain breeds or birds are aggressive; and once shown as such should then not be trusted?
For context; my birds are in a locked coop/run that she can not open by herself and is never allowed inside without Mom/Dad within arms reach. But for me a bit part of having a flock is the opportunity to teach her how to care for her animals and where her food comes from so eliminating her contact is not an option. The question then becomes; can I keep a roo?
For me, pets and young children should not have unsupervised contact period, full stop, end of sentence. Either the animal is too dangerous and unpredictable to be trusted with the child, or vice versa, or both
. I have some great dogs and great small children. They do not mingle without an adult. I have cockerels and toddlers. They don't mingle unless the cockerel is firmly in a football hold in my arms, or on the other side of a run. Even my sweetheart, doormat, push-over little Faverolles cockerel would not be allowed out of his run with my small children in the yard. Little kids can just set animals off. The kids are still learning how to interpret animals' signals of warning, discomfort and stress. The way kids move so quickly is easily interpreted as a threat by animals. Their high-pitched voices can trigger either the predator or the prey switches in animals. Once attacked, a lot of small kids are so shocked they just freeze up in shock and terror and keep getting attacked until someone notices and comes to their aid. There is just too much going on that can't be helped due the the developmental stages of small children and the hard-wired instincts of animals to trust the mix.
That said, I have weighed the risks in my mind, and I have decided I am willing to keep cockerels while I have small children, but only behind a locked gate in covered runs. We take a lot of precautions and feel it is less of a risk than having the kids around your typical house cat or dog. We're definitely proactive in keeping them apart, however. I don't feel that only interacting with a rooster through a fence until they are older and wiser will have a negative impact on their understanding the life cycle, where their food comes from, etc. I know some will feel living in runs is unfair to my roosters, but the raptors here are so bad that my hens get only a bit of closely supervised free range time as well (and I'm a little surprised I haven't lost some anyway). I know some will feel it is still a risk I shouldn't be taking with little ones. You just have to do your research, weigh the risks against the specifics of your situation, and go from there.
As far as this specific rooster, well... I don't think I would be breeding him, but you know his overall behavior an temperament better than I do.
Almost 200 posts behind but just needed to brag a little. DD is doing Round Robin this afternoon after taking grand champion in poultry and the phoenix took best in show for 4-H.
Almost 200 posts behind but just needed to brag a little. DD is doing Round Robin this afternoon after taking grand champion in poultry and the phoenix took best in show for 4-H.
Almost 200 posts behind but just needed to brag a little. DD is doing Round Robin this afternoon after taking grand champion in poultry and the phoenix took best in show for 4-H.
The thing is you just do not know what will set one off. We had a barred rock rooster go after my little brother. The Rooster took of running at him, jumped up into the air and hit him with the spurs. He was several years old and very heavy, this being the 1960s. My brother still has the scars on his leg. If he and been three it would have been much higher.
The Rooster made very good Chicken and dumplings.
I would not let three year olds out with large fowl roosters.
You can keep a rooster. Don't let them out where the children are. Treat the roosters like livestock. If you had a bull, you would not let the toddlers near them. I would not go near them. They can be very scary.
Good way to look at it; I've never had poultry of any sort before so this is all a learning experience. I'm trying to be extra cautious and proactive on my education so that my lessons aren't learned like your poor little brothers.
I would not trust a 3 year old with a large fowl rooster. That said... There are roosters who could care less about adults and children. Sometimes it's hard to find them. Show quality birds from breeders may tend to be better mannered than hatchery birds. But, don't bet on it. Personality can vary greatly even with in a flock.
I too met a huge...no gigantic barred rock rooster when I was a kid. Unlike Ron's poor brother, this one did not attack even when up to 6 little kids were chasing hens around the coop on a daily basis.
I've had several good roosters that barely even batted an eye at kids or me chasing hens around. One was good with cats, dogs, kids and even other roosters. One was good with everyone but other roosters. That one would not tolerate other roosters anywhere in eye sight. But, like Ron said breeding males of any kind of animal should never be trusted completely.
So True! But it's nice to know that there is the possibility of finding a "gentler" roo in SEVERAL YEARS that she might be able to handle with supervision.
I think a lot of things could be at play here- he is a hormonal teen coming into breeding age, he's got protective instincts and animals seem to have difficulty interpreting the movement/intent of small children (he could have been protecting his hens and later handling the other rooster may have come across as trying to assert herself within the pecking order), chickens tend to have trouble inferring that one human being established as the boss means other humans are the boss as well, etc. I have a three year old daughter, too (well, four tomorrow) and a pen full of already hefty sized BCM cockerels about the same age as yours. I would not let her into that pen. With an aggressive animal, even if you were willing to go all out trying every trick in the book to amend the behavior, I think you should ask if you would be willing to keep him if the behavior never changed. That is how I approach it. You may be able to train an animal to contain human aggression, but with children I would never let myself believe it was gone. I grew up around roosters and geese that respected/feared/avoided my dad and certain older kids, but would give the rest of the family hell at any available opportunity. I have one sister who is still terrified of birds because of it, but for me it just made me better at reading roosters and understanding how to physically communicate with the birds. Not a lot of help in this part, just some of the things that have gone through my mind when faced with similar circumstances.
For me, pets and young children should not have unsupervised contact period, full stop, end of sentence. Either the animal is too dangerous and unpredictable to be trusted with the child, or vice versa, or both
. I have some great dogs and great small children. They do not mingle without an adult. I have cockerels and toddlers. They don't mingle unless the cockerel is firmly in a football hold in my arms, or on the other side of a run. Even my sweetheart, doormat, push-over little Faverolles cockerel would not be allowed out of his run with my small children in the yard. Little kids can just set animals off. The kids are still learning how to interpret animals' signals of warning, discomfort and stress. The way kids move so quickly is easily interpreted as a threat by animals. Their high-pitched voices can trigger either the predator or the prey switches in animals. Once attacked, a lot of small kids are so shocked they just freeze up in shock and terror and keep getting attacked until someone notices and comes to their aid. There is just too much going on that can't be helped due the the developmental stages of small children and the hard-wired instincts of animals to trust the mix.
That said, I have weighed the risks in my mind, and I have decided I am willing to keep cockerels while I have small children, but only behind a locked gate in covered runs. We take a lot of precautions and feel it is less of a risk than having the kids around your typical house cat or dog. We're definitely proactive in keeping them apart, however. I don't feel that only interacting with a rooster through a fence until they are older and wiser will have a negative impact on their understanding the life cycle, where their food comes from, etc. I know some will feel living in runs is unfair to my roosters, but the raptors here are so bad that my hens get only a bit of closely supervised free range time as well (and I'm a little surprised I haven't lost some anyway). I know some will feel it is still a risk I shouldn't be taking with little ones. You just have to do your research, weigh the risks against the specifics of your situation, and go from there.
As far as this specific rooster, well... I don't think I would be breeding him, but you know his overall behavior an temperament better than I do.
I really appreciate you sharing your thoughts and the reasoning behind them.
This particular roo will be finding a home is someones dinner pot (not ours, we made the mistake of naming the darn thing and my husbands attached) One of his hatchmates was aggressive early so even if it's not the breed; I think this line may have that tendency.
Thank you everyone for all the insight! It is very much appreciated.
I'm going to re-review my chicken plan for the next several years. Either put off my breeding projects for a couple of years or build a separate breeding pen away from our layers...off to do more research.
Almost 200 posts behind but just needed to brag a little. DD is doing Round Robin this afternoon after taking grand champion in poultry and the phoenix took best in show for 4-H.
