Call Color Confusion

Discussion in 'Ducks' started by k0r1nag, Oct 7, 2011.

  1. k0r1nag

    k0r1nag Chillin' With My Peeps

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    I am new to call ducks and enjoying them mightily. I bought hatching eggs and had a banty cochin set them with great success - of the dozen eggs she successfully hatched 10 babies. The flock they came from was gray/blue fawn/pastel which I understand to be like Blue/Black/Splash genetically (thanks to some very helpful people here on BYC). But she also had butterscotch so I could have accidentally ended up with a few of those as well. I have been researching and researching the colors to try to figure out what I have as the little ones develop but I am still confused. I am pretty sure I have 4 pastel females and 2 pastel males (not pictured).

    My question is these guys...do I have blue fawn males or grays? Or some of each? I think they are all blue fawn, but one is much darker and has the lovely metallic green/blue patch on his wing, so is he a Gray? They are finally coming into their adult breeding coloration and I hope to see some drake curls soon to help with the final ID [​IMG]

    This is the one I think might be a gray:
    [​IMG]

    Are these boys blue fawns? Or this first boy a poor butterscotch?
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Fun to watch and learn about them as they grow.

    Thanks for the input!
     
  2. StevenW.

    StevenW. Lovin' My Quackers!

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    1. Gray - Male

    The 2nd and 3rd boys could very well be Blue Fawns or maybe even ButterScotches.

    I'm not sure if I'm 100% correct, but I do know they are beautiful! [​IMG]
     
  3. Senna95

    Senna95 Chillin' With My Peeps

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    Only the greys will have the irridescent green head and wing patch. Adding any blue dilution (either single or double dose) will turn the head grey, as well as the wing patch.

    It's hard to tell the second 2 ducks...... wait till they color up some more, and post more pics.
     
  4. dwhite

    dwhite Chillin' With My Peeps

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    Pictures 2 and 3 are not butterscotch, the way the coloring is coming in and they way they look would lead me to say Blue Fawn.

    The butterscotch gene is recessive so one of the other adult ducks of the opposite sex would have had to carry the gene as well.

    Something else is that if she had Grey/BF/Pastel that given the genetics of the butterscotch we know that he or she could not be the parent of the grey.
     
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2011
  5. rollyard

    rollyard Chillin' With My Peeps

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    Butterscotch hobbyname is assigned to colourform that is genetically M+/M+, li/li, Bl/Bl for ducks, or variable genotypes for drakes, ie M+/M+, li/li, Bl/Bl or M+/M+, li/li^h, Bl/Bl or M+/M+, li^h/li^h, Bl/Bl according to holderread (p. 124). Although difficult to see clearly from pics, the birds above look @ this stage like dark-phase wild-type Mallards (in keeping with their reported breeding), the top bird without blue dilution while second two each look to have one dose of blue each (if heads are turning charcoal grey as opposed to lighter pigeon blue)?

    They will change surprisingly over next few weeks, & as mentioned above, it will be clearer to tell when they do.
     
  6. dwhite

    dwhite Chillin' With My Peeps

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    Unless the picture is really bad the color on the wing is wrong for a grey.
     
  7. rollyard

    rollyard Chillin' With My Peeps

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    Quote:I guess there could be any number of reasons why some apsect about the top pictured bird isn't generally typical of grey (if this is in fact the case?), including photo quality. But from what I can see it is wild-type & dark phase without other clear major modifyers (in that photo). If he had blue dilution (homo or hetero) for example, then he shouldn't have the metallic green/blue speculum as described for starters! It would be interesting (& helpful) to know its pattern/colour in duckling down, & currently underwing? A clearer photo of the top bird would also help.

    As far as I am aware there is no single major factor for Butterscotch colourform, but rather gene combinations that produce same (genotypes as described above). And I agree, a Butterscotch could not be the parent of the top bird if he is Grey (no blue dilution) because Butterscotch are homozygous for blue.
     
  8. dwhite

    dwhite Chillin' With My Peeps

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    I was talking about the 2nd and 3rd picture, I agree on the 1st one, didn't realize you were talking about that one.
     
  9. Senna95

    Senna95 Chillin' With My Peeps

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    Quote:M+/M+, li/li, Bl/Bl .......... Also called saxony, right?
    And M+/M+, li^h/li^h, Bl/Bl .......... called overberg? Or is that just the name of a certain breed, which happens to have that color?

    So why does butterscotch have it's own name?
     
  10. rollyard

    rollyard Chillin' With My Peeps

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    Quote:M+/M+, li/li, Bl/Bl .......... Also called saxony, right?
    And M+/M+, li^h/li^h, Bl/Bl .......... called overberg? Or is that just the name of a certain breed, which happens to have that color?

    So why does butterscotch have it's own name?

    Hi Senna95 [​IMG]

    Yes, Butterscotch & Saxony are basically the same genetically colourwise except for those deviations that incorporate li^h in the mix which Holderread explains produces exhibition (I think) drakes with better head colour. I didn't mention "Saxony" to limit complication/confusion I guess.

    Overbergs are as I understand m^d/m^d, li^h/li^h, Bl/Bl (Harlequin phase duskies + homo blue dilution). I'm not too sure to be honest if Overberg is assigned for colour, or only for the breed (where is Dana when you need her?).

    Although Butterscotch are largely colour-wise genetically the same as Saxony, they do differ phenotypically according to what I have read (& seen) by having more creamy white throughout enabled through variable expression of the light phase gene & selection.

    dwhite, I think I was a little confused about birds being discussed also.
     

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