Can a true ameraucana be mixed color?

[cleopatra]

I have a 5 month old hen that is mostly blue, but mixed with some copper colored feathers. She has muffs and a beard and slate colored legs. The lady who sold her to me called her an ameraucana. Can she be an ameraucana if she's not all blue or is she an EE? How does everyone know just by looking at photos? She hasn't started laying yet. She's the one on the right. Thanks!

 

[Pele]

Unfortunately, no. Even a purebred bird that is off-standard a little bit in color is considered EE. Thus, a completely mixed color bird is right out.

But I personally love EEs that are as close to pureblood Ameraucana as possible, it's the best of both worlds in my personal opinion.

 

[aoxa]

Unfortunately, no.  Even a purebred bird that is off-standard a little bit in color is considered EE.  Thus, a completely mixed color bird is right out.

But I personally love EEs that are as close to pureblood Ameraucana as possible, it's the best of both worlds in my personal opinion.

See - this I don't get.. If you mix a blue silkie with a white silkie, the offspring is still a silkie.. Why is colour any different for Ameraucana? Sure you can not show them, but if both parents were show quality Ameraucana, why would their offspring be considered a mutt?

 

[Pele]

I'm not an Ameraucana breeder myself, so I can only speculate why the breed standard is so exacting.

However, it probably has a lot to do with all of the shady practices of hatcheries out there who claim to have a breed that they don't have, and producing counterfits that resemble the breed enough to confuse the general population. If you have a genuine expensive item that you spent your life working to attain, and everyone produced poor copies of it and claimed it was the genuine item, you'd be fairly protective of the fact that your item is in fact the real thing.

Other breeds enjoy the luxury of a long history of being distinctly defined from other breeds. No hatchery sells Silkies as Cochins, or worse, mis-spell the name entirely. Imagine them being sold as Silkays, or Saulkies, and having really terrible breeding. Breeders would be less than pleased, especially since hatchery birds are what the general public get the most exposure to. And even worse, hobbiest breeders get hatchery stock, slap birds up on Craigslist as 'Purebred Saulkies', and the breed you've dedicated your entire life to is getting it's entire public image corroded. It's distressing to say the least.

I personally think it's a disservice in both directions, as EEs deserve to be recognized as a wonderful group on their own. They don't deserve to be snuck in as another 'breed', because they are wonderful. They have thier own positive features that don't need to be swept under the rug like an embarrassing family secret. I love them because they're like the box of chocolates with no guide for the flavors. It's an adventure!

Edited to add: Sorry got carried away and forgot to add: You'd have a Silkie, but not one you can show. It's the same for Ameraucanas, they can only come in specific colors.

 

[cleopatra]

That's all very interesting. I'd have to agree that EEs are special. So do you think my EE has enough ameraucana in her to lay blue/green eggs? Not that it matters - I'll adore her just the same.

 

[Pele]

That's all very interesting. I'd have to agree that EEs are special. So do you think my EE has enough ameraucana in her to lay blue/green eggs? Not that it matters - I'll adore her just the same.

It sounds like she has enough Ameraucana genes to get the green or blue eggs, however EEs can always throw a curve-ball at you since they have unknown genes in the mix. If I were a betting woman, I'd lay money on green.

 

[aoxa]

I'm not an Ameraucana breeder myself, so I can only speculate why the breed standard is so exacting.

However, it probably has a lot to do with all of the shady practices of hatcheries out there who claim to have a breed that they don't have, and producing counterfits that resemble the breed enough to confuse the general population.  If you have a genuine expensive item that you spent your life working to attain, and everyone produced poor copies of it and claimed it was the genuine item, you'd be fairly protective of the fact that your item is in fact the real thing. 

Other breeds enjoy the luxury of a long history of being distinctly defined from other breeds.  No hatchery sells Silkies as Cochins, or worse, mis-spell the name entirely.  Imagine them being sold as Silkays, or Saulkies, and having really terrible breeding.  Breeders would be less than pleased, especially since hatchery birds are what the general public get the most exposure to.  And even worse, hobbiest breeders get hatchery stock, slap birds up on Craigslist as 'Purebred Saulkies', and the breed you've dedicated your entire life to is getting it's entire public image corroded.  It's distressing to say the least.

I personally think it's a disservice in both directions, as EEs deserve to be recognized as a wonderful group on their own.  They don't deserve to be snuck in as another 'breed', because they are wonderful.  They have thier own positive features that don't need to be swept under the rug like an embarrassing family secret.  I love them because they're like the box of chocolates with no guide for the flavors.  It's an adventure!

Edited to add:  Sorry got carried away and forgot to add:  You'd have a Silkie, but not one you can show.  It's the same for Ameraucanas, they can only come in specific colors.

That's why I said, sure you can not show them, but they are still silkies.

Hatcheries sell really poor quality birds period. Their silkies are awful as well. No way you could show them. You may get the occasional quality bird that is close to the standard, but it is very rare.

I'm not talking hatchery quality 'Ameraucanas' I'm talking a breeder of Ameraucana who is trying to develop a new colour - say by mixing black and blue - all parents have been shown and have won best in breed. The results of their offspring are not a recognized colour, but their parents won shows - why would they be considered a mutt?

I'm not trying to debate you in any way. I agree that any hatchery 'Americana' has a shady background, but there 'could' be a situation where two different colours of true Ameraucana have produced a colour that is not one of the eight. I would sell it as a true Ameraucana - while making sure the buyer was well aware that this bird is not showable. I don't see how that is dishonest.

Lavender is not one of the eight recognized colours, yet many people are selling 'lavender Ameraucanas' as pure. I have even seen some well respected posters on here that do it. This colour is not recognized, so why are they calling them Ameraucanas?

I'm rambling

I love EEs myself. Very much so. I have five right now.

 

[fancyfowl4ever]

Your EE looks like she is a Blue laced red wyandotte X EE, she has the BLR wyandotte colour.
Very purdy.

 

[Pele]

That's why I said, sure you can not show them, but they are still silkies.
Hatcheries sell really poor quality birds period. Their silkies are awful as well. No way you could show them. You may get the occasional quality bird that is close to the standard, but it is very rare.
I'm not talking hatchery quality 'Ameraucanas' I'm talking a breeder of Ameraucana who is trying to develop a new colour - say by mixing black and blue - all parents have been shown and have won best in breed. The results of their offspring are not a recognized colour, but their parents won shows - why would they be considered a mutt?
I'm not trying to debate you in any way. I agree that any hatchery 'Americana' has a shady background, but there 'could' be a situation where two different colours of true Ameraucana have produced a colour that is not one of the eight. I would sell it as a true Ameraucana - while making sure the buyer was well aware that this bird is not showable. I don't see how that is dishonest.
Lavender is not one of the eight recognized colours, yet many people are selling 'lavender Ameraucanas' as pure. I have even seen some well respected posters on here that do it. This colour is not recognized, so why are they calling them Ameraucanas?
I'm rambling

I love EEs myself. Very much so. I have five right now.

Yeah I agree that project colors are their own category entirely. I love Lavenders, and can't wait until they officially get recognized. But with Ameraucanas specifically, you have to be careful about just crossing them willy nilly with no end goal in mind, or you've crossed that grey area into EE land. That's what hatcheries are doing differently than with other breeds. With Silkies, you don't see hatcheries crossing them with say, a Leghorn, and just tweaking the spelling, and tada! same thing right?

If you want the more intimate nitty gritty on what specific points the breeders are standing on, you might want to peruse the Ameraucana breeder's thread. Those folks are really cool, and are working really hard on protecting the integrity of their breed. That's where I've gleaned the information I' know about what they consider EE vs Ameraucana.

 

[aoxa]

Yeah I agree that project colors are their own category entirely.  I love Lavenders, and can't wait until they officially get recognized.  But with Ameraucanas specifically, you have to be careful about just crossing them willy nilly with no end goal in mind, or you've crossed that grey area into EE land.  That's what hatcheries are doing differently than with other breeds.  With Silkies, you don't see hatcheries crossing them with say, a Leghorn, and just tweaking the spelling, and tada! same thing right? 

If you want the more intimate nitty gritty on what specific points the breeders are standing on, you might want to peruse the Ameraucana breeder's thread.  Those folks are really cool, and are working really hard on protecting the integrity of their breed.   That's where I've gleaned the information I' know about what they consider EE vs Ameraucana.

I find that thread quite hostile

I'm working towards a flock of white.. Just need to work on the leg colour. Until then, they are EEs.