Can border collies live with silkies and silkie chicks?

[L0rraine]

Quote:
NOT too late. I very much enjoyed reading this.

We are still struggling here. Our Border Collie very much wants to herd -- though if he thinks the chickens are 'rounded up' (i.e., in their pen or all in a bunch together) he will leave them alone and just go into watch mode. But of course the free-range thing has him a bit distressed and confused and he will really start flying at them and occasionally nip at them trying to get them all together. And for some reason he is much more intent on herding our Indian Runner ducks who are really freaked out with him and scatter in all directions. He is usually fairly responsive to my verbal commands 'to come' or 'lie down', but when he's in 'herding mode' he becomes very difficult to control. The interesting thing is that if he is left on his own, he is a remarkably effective herder. The problem that seems to compound our training is that our Rough Collie gets excited and wants to 'help' and then the situation becomes a bit dangerous. Prior to Max coming to live with us, our Rough Collie was very gentle with the ducks and the hens and they actually liked hanging out wherever he was at as they seemed to sense he could protect them.

Guess I'm being called for dinner, but I keep hoping things will improve here (as we have better weather outside to 'work' in). I'll try to post updates if (or when) things improve here.

 

[welsummerchicks]

If 'live with' means enjoying various delectable preparations of chicken, yes.

I would never assume a dog of a very intensely dedicated herding breed with a very high energy level would not kill chickens or that the average person could train any dog of any breed to 100% never bother chickens when left around them all the time unleashed.

 

[chena16c]

Quote:
Mine doesn't bother them at all unless I've asked him to. He's much more interested in the squirrels that he thinks shouldn't be in the yard than chickens or birds. But I also know not all dogs are this way.

 

[sunny & the 5 egg layers]

I have a 1 year old border collie and she is fantastic with the chickens. But she wasnt always that way. It took some training-- but not a lot. See, when she first saw the chickens she tried to bite them and didn't really know what to do. Whenever she tried to nip them I said,"Uh uh!" in a short sharp voice. Then one day I took her out to the chickens on a leash while the chickens were free ranging and I made her lay down right beside me. When a chicken would come over I'd pat her and tell her,"Good Girl". After doing this she learned. And she hasnt even tried to nip the chickens since.
As for guarding againt burglars, I wouldnt count on her

. See she doesn't like new people. If we have company over she grawls at them and tries to bite them. Not because she is tough but because she is scared. I don't know how to fix that problem. If a burglar did break in, I think she would just run to us and want us to protect her

. Where as my beagle/sheperd/boxer mix would go after the burglar, and the burglar wouldnt stand a chance.


That's my 2 cents. Good luck!

 

[Feeling Stupid]

Thought I'd chime in as I just had a very disconcerting experience and am sharing it as a precautionary tale. Do not read if squeamish.

My pet border collie is normally very submissive and very, very obedient. She came to me as a neurotic, screwed up teenage rescue and has blossomed into a very good dog. People are constantly remarking on how attuned to me she is and how well behaved. Last week we got adult silkies. Our first chickens. The BC quickly picked up that I did NOT want her harassing them. We would sit and watch them. Within a week I could "trust" her with the adults unless they moved very quickly. Then she would start to chase, I would chastise her, sit with her and tell her to be gentle and to just watch them. This was going very well. Then I acquired two several months old chicks. These peeped and moved much more jerkily then the adults. Her prey drive kicked in. Again, I worked with the BC, spent a lot of time having her just watch them and explained to her that these were ours and not to be harassed or eaten. The first night dog was put up and chicks were in their pen. The chicks slept outside and would not go in their little coop (which was a small plastic puppy carrier). So tonight I thought they would be safer from the elements and any predators if I put them in their coop and shut the door. I put a dog play pen fencing around the coop. (They were not in the coop for the big hens as the hens had been pecking at them). The chicks, I thought were safe, not only in the pen, but in the carrier. I left the BC in the yard so she could eat and do her "business" before being brought in to go to bed. It started to rain and I went out to make sure that the chicks were not getting wet. Well, not to worry about that. Someone had bashed in the gate to the pen, bashed in the door to the carrier and apparently eaten the chicks. BC was looking pleased. We were so shocked that we wanted to make really sure it was her and not some other possible explanation. So we gave her hydrogen peroxide (carefully) to induce vomiting. Out came the 2 cups of dog food - we still hoped that was all. But poking around in the muck from her stomach, it was very clear that the babies had been eaten by her. No question. So she had eaten her dinner, waited to be sure we were not around then deliberately rammed through the fencing, bashed in the carrier door and gobbled them up. This dog had never before done anything remotely challenging to our wishes. She has been 100% safe around our bunny rabbit in the house. But the chicks were just more than her predator brain could withstand. And bear in mind that these chicks at the time of the attack were sleeping in the carrier. She could not see them. So it was not motion that triggered this attack. I learn something from each of the borders that I have owned. But right now, tonight, I am still shocked that it never dawned on me that she would go against our wishes and knowingly break into a pen. So please bear this in mind if you are considering having dogs and chickens. We now have to re-think if we can safely have chickens in our backyard.

 

[dainerra]

Thanks, she is 100% BC - according to the little dna test thing-ama-bob.

We have a heeler also - fantastic with any animal - he is 15.


The Corso also came here as an adult - no problem with any of our "pack" no matter if it is parrots (who are free to fly around the house), chickens, chicks, ducks, geese and horses.

those DNA tests are notoriously inaccurate. They have taken purebred dogs with known lineage and tested them and came up with wildly crazy breed combos.

 

[dainerra]

. We now have to re-think if we can safely have chickens in our backyard.

don't rethink the chickens. Just rethink your dog. Don't leave her unsupervised. You know that she is trustworthy when you are around, right? She has proven to be obedient and watchful. Most herding breeds (and most dogs in general) are meant to work directly with humans. So, when they are left alone, they tend to make up their own rules, esp smart dogs like BCs.
If you do want to be able to leave her outside alone, then you need to continue the training. Dogs, even smart ones, don't generalize well.
She knows to not bother the birds when you are around, but you've never taught her that you want her to NEVER bother the birds. Smart dogs are the kind that will find a loophole - you said I couldn't walk away from a sit, you didn't say I couldn't wiggle my butt across the floor until I get where I want to be....

 

[Mountain Man Jim]

It sounds like your BC needs more training and maybe a doggy friend. When our BC mix was a puppy, the chicks were just too interesting to her. Fortunately, our Great Pyrenees explained to the BC that the chicks were off limits; the next year she was completely reliable with the spring chicks. I am becoming more and more convinced that having a pack of dogs can help in the policing of the each other.

Jim

 

[FeelingStupid]

Dear Chicken Obsessed and Mountain Man Jim,

Thanks so much for your replies. Jim - wish I could borrow your GP to train her. LOL! And I do appreciate your concern that she needs more training and friends and exercise. That is the advice I give all pet border collie owners who ask me for how to live with their dogs. She, by the way did not do this deed out of boredom or a lack of socialization. She has a very full social calendar filed with going to a friend's hobby ranch where I help with horses and she plays with his Rotties, daily walks with neighborhood dogs, beach runs with other BC's, every Sunday play dates, agility classes and practices, goes with me almost every where I go and has frequent play and training sessions at home. She is great with my bunny. It only took one time of telling her not to chase and she stopped completely. The rabbit uses her for a springboard to get up on the furniture. The very day of her chick eating spree she had started the morning out going to a hobby farm that has lots of Rhode Island reds running around freely and goats and other border collies. While I helped leash train a baby goat my BC was happily off entertaining herself with the other dogs with no harassment of the animals. Afterwards we had a 1 1/2 hour agility practice with her totally focused on me. Then she got to visit with some human kids. She was exhausted when she got home and slept until dinnertime. She ate her dinner. She was not hungry. But apparently she was very determined. It took some work to do what she did. Even though we knew we were taking a risk getting birds, this BC of all the ones I've had we trusted not to challenge our wishes. My other two we would never have gotten pet chickens as it would have been stressful for everyone involved. But this dog we deluded ourselves into thinking that she did not have a dominant enough personality to challenge our wishes and that she would respect the fencing. So we let her out to be free in the yard while she had dinner so she could "go potty", etc. She has not attacked the coop with the adult birds in the week that we have had them, and has not hurt or even tried to bite them. She has gotten close to them but one hen rises up into her face and flaps her wings and my dog backs off. I do not fault her at all for wanting to eat the chicks. That is normal. What is shocking to us is that she clearly was willing to go against the wishes of the "alpha *****" (me) and actually break into a fenced in area and eat what she should have thought of as my food (from wolf point of view, we don't intend to eat our Silkies).

The dilemma we are facing now is that since there is no aggression towards adult birds and the only chicks around her ended up border collie treats, that I’m not sure what the next steps are. No dead chicken to hang around her neck. No chicks to entice her for training. When we have time we probably will get into full on conditioning with her with chicks around but right now don't have the heart to risk the lives of more chicks. These poor chicks went right from being caged in a coop to finally getting to be real chickens and peck the ground to becoming dog smorgasbord all in the space of 2 days. Any advice out here is appreciated!

 

[dainerra]

The way is simple. Dog isn't allowed around young chicks unsupervised. Easy-peasy.
chicks don't move, sound, or even entirely SMELL like adult chickens. She knows that she isn't to bother the adult chickens. She knows not to bother the chicks when you are there.

Also, seeing as if I am reading this right, you've only had the birds for a week?? WAAAY too early for you to say that she is good with the adult birds. She is still learning about them. The fact that the birds can back her off is good, but that could just mean that she is still checking them out.

I would work on teaching her to avoid the birds completely. No fun interactions of letting her "herd" the birds, especially if you plan on leaving her alone in the yard with them.

Also, dogs are NOT wolves....