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Granny23
Songster
He is so beautiful!! Thanks for your comment.
Can ESA override city ordinance?
- Thread starter Granny23
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- #12
Granny23
Songster
We have considered putting him in our garage at night or in our big gardening shed until it's a little later, like 8am. It isn't his crowing thats causing the problem. Someone thought they needed to turn me in because we have a rooster that isn't allowed and I broke the rule. My biggest worry was his crowing at 6 AM., especially on the weekends.98% of the time he is quiet.
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- #13
Granny23
Songster
Her counselor will likely help her. Usttorm, as I took it, was incinuating we were just doing the ESA to buffalo/defraud the ESA and DAC. If we get this done and it doesn't make any difference my granddaughter will be hurt all over. I just didn't want to go thru all of it just to be told it won't matter anyway. THAT is the ONLY reason I came here to ask if anyone has knowledge about it.
Thank you for your ideas and support.
Well, I wish you luck. I don't know that an ESA will work, but it's worth a try. My concern is that having a rooster is against the ordinance probably because of noise issues. Your neighbors obviously don't want you to have a rooster for whatever reason. I hope you find something that works for your precious granddaughter.
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- #15
Granny23
Songster
Yes, I believe the ordinance of no roosters is for noise but none of my neighbors called. The officer told me that and Ive asked my neighbors if he bothers them. He crows about 6am for a few minutes and he's quiet. One neighbor behind me to the left couldn't even tell where his crowing was coming from.
The irony is there are chickens and roosters ALL OVER THE CITY. But I can't have mine? I know, I know. City ordinance and someone complained.
My granddaughter will have to accept whatever decision is made.
U_Stormcrow
Crossing the Road
The fact that others have chickens and or roosters is irrelevant. YOU are the one who has been caught. Other people roll stop signs, speed, and drive drunk all the time too - doesn't provide a defense when you get caught doing it. Zoning is the same way.
Fact is, ESA Abuse is percieved to be widespread. That's the reality. Fact is, you were caught first, and now seek an exception after the fact. That's the reality. Fact is, you want an exception to a generally applicable law based on a piece of legislation which allows self-certification, and as such, receives little respect in the law. Certainly less than objectors claiming First Amendment protections for religious liberty, another place of self-certification. That's the reality.
You will have to overcome all those issues to be successful, and unlike the ADA, ESA doesn't have much "teeth". If you weren't in CA, you'd have almost no chance at all. ...and even there, they worry enough about ESA Abuse to have recently passed legislation seeking to curtail it.
The only things in your favor (apart from the fact that CA will even consider it) is that your granddaughter was previously in treatment - so you aren't appearing with a letter from any of the myriad Internet sites dated after the infraction, and that litigation in your state is so expensive and onerous that its not worth it to most defendants to do more than propound discovery and go thru the motions while seeking to settle.
The Law, it is said, "is an @$$". [with apologies to the BYC Moderators, its a quote approximately 500 years old, which I have tried to render somewhat less offensive to the very sheltered.] In the eyes of the law, your feelings, and what your neighbors may or may not be doing, are irrelevant. If you want to win your claim, you need to focus on what the law DOES care about and how you can use the legal process to make it a fight the municipality wants to settle guickly and quietly. In the words of Sun Tzu, "Victorious warriors win first and then go to war."
You now have the benefit of my opinion and experience, which, together with $5, might buy you a short coffee at Starbucks. Worth more than an apology, which I won't be offering. Focus on your feelings of hurt, of being singled out, your sense of moral "rightness" and you greatly increase your chances at losing this fight. The LAW does not care. I don't care about those things either, but cared enough to offer a useful guide for proceeding and an overview of the landscape in which you will fight.
As it is unwelcome, I'll be getting a real coffee, and stepping off this thread. Good day to you, madam.
Fact is, ESA Abuse is percieved to be widespread. That's the reality. Fact is, you were caught first, and now seek an exception after the fact. That's the reality. Fact is, you want an exception to a generally applicable law based on a piece of legislation which allows self-certification, and as such, receives little respect in the law. Certainly less than objectors claiming First Amendment protections for religious liberty, another place of self-certification. That's the reality.
You will have to overcome all those issues to be successful, and unlike the ADA, ESA doesn't have much "teeth". If you weren't in CA, you'd have almost no chance at all. ...and even there, they worry enough about ESA Abuse to have recently passed legislation seeking to curtail it.
The only things in your favor (apart from the fact that CA will even consider it) is that your granddaughter was previously in treatment - so you aren't appearing with a letter from any of the myriad Internet sites dated after the infraction, and that litigation in your state is so expensive and onerous that its not worth it to most defendants to do more than propound discovery and go thru the motions while seeking to settle.
The Law, it is said, "is an @$$". [with apologies to the BYC Moderators, its a quote approximately 500 years old, which I have tried to render somewhat less offensive to the very sheltered.] In the eyes of the law, your feelings, and what your neighbors may or may not be doing, are irrelevant. If you want to win your claim, you need to focus on what the law DOES care about and how you can use the legal process to make it a fight the municipality wants to settle guickly and quietly. In the words of Sun Tzu, "Victorious warriors win first and then go to war."
You now have the benefit of my opinion and experience, which, together with $5, might buy you a short coffee at Starbucks. Worth more than an apology, which I won't be offering. Focus on your feelings of hurt, of being singled out, your sense of moral "rightness" and you greatly increase your chances at losing this fight. The LAW does not care. I don't care about those things either, but cared enough to offer a useful guide for proceeding and an overview of the landscape in which you will fight.
As it is unwelcome, I'll be getting a real coffee, and stepping off this thread. Good day to you, madam.
It’s great to hear that your GD is doing better. She is capable of moving forward in her life and to make strides. Her depression or issues got the better of her for awhile, but she has made progress on her own, by her own choices. Having a pet chicken has given her some comfort. But the pet chicken did not make her get out of bed, etc. she did that herself.
trying to get an ESA for a flock animal is a bit of a stretch. An ESA is for one animal, and a chicken isn’t the best choice since they are, undeniably, flock animals. While it is good she spends her time with the chicken, that is probably not what you want to see her spend all of her time doing for the lifespan of the chicken. She is an adult and making strides forward in her life will likely entail leaving her room/ house. Of course, you already know this.
if you end up getting rid of the chicken, I’d suggest you try to do that before you are forced to. This way you can choose where the chicken goes, what future home he will have. It isn’t easy to rehome a rooster, so it will take more effort. This may be good for your GD, as she might be able to visit him at his new home if he goes to a place where she knows the owners or is allowed to visit. Reach out to yours and your GD friends to see if there is a potential home for him.
lastly, your GD has clearly responded positively to having an animal in her life. So, you might want to think about what might be a good alternative for her based on your lifestyle and means to care for an animal.
good luck
trying to get an ESA for a flock animal is a bit of a stretch. An ESA is for one animal, and a chicken isn’t the best choice since they are, undeniably, flock animals. While it is good she spends her time with the chicken, that is probably not what you want to see her spend all of her time doing for the lifespan of the chicken. She is an adult and making strides forward in her life will likely entail leaving her room/ house. Of course, you already know this.
if you end up getting rid of the chicken, I’d suggest you try to do that before you are forced to. This way you can choose where the chicken goes, what future home he will have. It isn’t easy to rehome a rooster, so it will take more effort. This may be good for your GD, as she might be able to visit him at his new home if he goes to a place where she knows the owners or is allowed to visit. Reach out to yours and your GD friends to see if there is a potential home for him.
lastly, your GD has clearly responded positively to having an animal in her life. So, you might want to think about what might be a good alternative for her based on your lifestyle and means to care for an animal.
good luck
Not funny, and even less funny coming from Florida.
I think it's *kinda* funny. Gotta be able to laugh at ourselves.
Katiegeez
Chirping
(Not legal advice.) Typically, any exemptions to local ordinances would be identified in same. Local ordinances often cite exemptions for agriculture permits, but I've never seen an exemption for emotional support animals. Unless the animal has been trained as a service animal, it is unlikely an emotional support animal will stand against any legal muster. Unfortunately, as far as I am aware, roosters are unable to pass any significant service training. Any written (and notarized) support from a medical professional may help sway the court in your favor, but, even given best-case-scenario outcomes, I would not anticipate the rooster being fully allowed. The court may be open to rooster-collaring, if the crowing is proven to be decreased significantly, particularly during noise violation times, or perhaps the court would order that the rooster be kept fully indoors, but then you have to consider the welfare of the animal.
Anyway, long story short, emotional support animals have far fewer legal protections than service animals. Could your granddaughter find a farm she could rehome the rooster to, and then volunteer at the same farm? Such programs are often designed to assist folks with depression, etc.
Anyway, long story short, emotional support animals have far fewer legal protections than service animals. Could your granddaughter find a farm she could rehome the rooster to, and then volunteer at the same farm? Such programs are often designed to assist folks with depression, etc.
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