Can I feed my roo layers pellets????

[bairo]

Quote:
I did not have time to read all the responses and so do not know if someone already mentioned this or not. If you have a blue seal dealer where you live, you could switch to something like breeder pellets and offer oyster shell in a separate feeder free choice. If not blue seal, then you could go to purina flockraiser with free choice shell.

I have always mixed purina layena and flock raiser 50/50 and never had a problem with shell hardness. I am of the belief that even hens do not need as much calcium as feed companies like to advertise. The reason for this (I believe) was to serve the commercial market wanting unusually hard eggs to hold up to all the traveling and abuse a store bought egg has to endure. I think they have gotten carried away with the calcium and IMPO is entirely too much and more than they could ever get on a daily basis naturally. Ive seen hens in the old days raised on just spilled corn and wheat and whatever they could scratch up. The soft shell egg was very rare.

 

[Chris09]

Quote:
The breeder feed should have added Phosphorus and Vitamins that will help improved egg hatchability.

The breeder feed that I use/mix is about 19% protein (non-ruminant animal proteins and plant proteins) and is around 1.20% Calcium Max.

Chris

 

[johnson215]

my roo lives with the hens so he eats what they do and has been for three years i haven't noticed any problems.. however i do feed them a lot of scratch grains. so he probably doesn't eat much of the layer feed. they are out of the coop during the day and running all over the farm eating everything.. i never thought of separating them.....i guess it's nice to know that layer feed isn't good for them. i'll have to watch that. thanks for the input..

 

[bairo]

Quote:
The breeder feed should have added Phosphorus and Vitamins that will help improved egg hatchability.

The breeder feed that I use/mix is about 19% protein (non-ruminant animal proteins and plant proteins) and is around 1.20% Calcium Max.

Chris

I think Blue seal is about that as well. They are my first choice, but I have looked at layena start and grow non medicated as well. 18% protein, decent level of methinone, marygold extract, good vit mix, and around 1% calcium. I really think the 1-2% calcium is plenty. that 3.5 - 4.5 is over board ( IMPO )
I dont think you could go wrong with start and grow medicated the first 4 weeks and non medicated the rest of their lives if no Blue Seal dealer around. I think the wording on the bag scares people into thinking they can not use it past 20 weeks. This would be almost a perfect formula for the rooster as well as the hens I think

 

[Ridgerunner]

The feed companies do make feeds specifically for roosters in a breeding operation and specifically for hens in a breeding operation. Some commercial operations have to provide fertile eggs so the laying hens and broilers can be hatched. The feed companies don't make all their money providing feed for laying operations.

Chris probably knows better than I do, but I strongly suspect that calcium is not the only difference. Breeding flocks need additional vitamins, minerals and amino acids. For practically all of us we don't have to worry about these additions. Layer, Grower, Flock Raiser, whatever works fine, but we don't have thousands of chickens laying hatching eggs where a small percentage of difference will affect the bottom line. If you set 24 eggs, whether one does or does not hatch won't make a big difference. If you set 24,000 eggs, you will notice a difference of 1,000 hatching. We are not commercial operations. Don't get your knickers in a twist over the small stuff.

Everyone can't do this because some of us have bantams mixed in with full sized fowl, but if your chickens are approximately the same size, the roosters are going to be taller than the hens and have heads bigger than the hens. If you take the "feeder for cockerels" in Digits' link and hang that up high enough, the hens cannot reach it but the roosters can. If you take the "feeders for pullets" in the same post and adjust the openings, the hens can get their heads in there but the roosters cannot. This is how this is accomplished in many commercial breeding operations.

If you mostly free range, I don't think it really matters if you feed Layer or something else. They will manage just fine. If you are really worried about it, the extremely easy thing to do, as has been mentioned many times already, is feed whatever feed makes your little heart go pitter patter and offer oyster shell on the side. Extremely, extremely easy.

Everything the feed companies put in feed costs money. The amount of calcium put in Layer has been determined as necessary through many studies. If all they eat is Layer, that is how much calcium they need. If they free range they can get a lot of calcium from nature. Bugs shells contain calcium. Many plants contain calcium. If you live in limestone country, they will get calcium from rock they eat as grit. Let your egg shells tell you how you are doing. If they are soft or thin, they need more calcium. If they are hard, they are getting enough calcium. Oyster shell is so cheap and they do such a good job of regulating their calcium intake, offering oyster shell on the side makes so much sense to me, but that is just me, obviously.

The only studies I have seen on calcium involve feeding chicks from the day they are hatched with Layer. The conclusions in those studies are extremely clear. Excess calcium causes problems with young chicks. I have not seen any studies that involve feeding the amounts of calcium to chicks that is in Layer starting when the chicks are 8 weeks old or some other age when they start. I have not seen any studies that show specific effects of that amount of calcium on roosters. I really don't know what the effects are. Most nutrients have a recommended range for humans as well as animals. Too little or too much of practically anything can be bad. I don't know what that recommended range is for roosters and calcium.

Mine generally free range so I don't worry about it too much. If I have chicks that have not started to lay, I feed Grower with oyster shell on the side to the whole flock. Otherwise, I probably offer Layer. My roosters don't make it much past two years anyway before I have his replacement ready, so long term effects on the rooster don't worry me a lot anyway. I'd like to see some actual studies on the long term effects so I can understand it better, but I really try to not overthink it or make it too complicated. Oyster shell offered on the side is about as uncomplicated as I can get it.

 

[myfester]

Quote:
The calcium will absolutely not kill him. If calcium were toxic to roosters, the feed companies would be all over marketing a special product aimed directly at them. They don't because it's not.

Where did you here that Calcium does not collect in the kidneys and cause ureter, kidney impaction or Avian Urolithiasis in non laying birds over a period of time.

And for the record they do make a special product aimed directly to a mixed flock buckeye feed was the first if not one of the first to put out a ''all flock" feed that has a lower Calcium amount in it.
There are some feed co's that do make a Rooster or Cock feed that is low in Calcium and is designed for Roosters.

Chris

Chris, I had a pullet die of calcium toxicity and urolithiasis (I have the necropsy report to prove it). While talking to the doctor that runs the lab, she told me that the calcium in the layer formula is too much for non-laying chickens (pullets as well as roosters). She said that it depends on the chicken itself if the level of kidney damage is enough to actually kill them. Some roosters will develop kidney damage, some will not. It all depends how their individual body is handling the calcium overload or how much kidney damage their body can function on. That is why many people can feed the layer feed to all their chickens and all "seem" fine. A roosters life may be shortened, but when, a person may not do a necropsy study to find out the reason for the death. Then again...the rooster may not have any ill effects.

Laura

 

[ClareScifi]

Thanks for this informative thread.

Has anyone come up with some scholarly research studies I can read on the topic?

How much damage do you think I may have done to my roo by feeding him the layer mash for 3 weeks? He'll be 23 weeks old on Tuesday. I wish I had known. I feel terrible.

 

[myfester]

He may be totally fine. All you can do is reduce his calcium intake a little from this point on. If his kidney are functioning well enough, he won't be hurting or anything. He may not even have any calcium stones building up at all, so all your worry would be for nothing. Don't worry yourself. All we can do is learn and do the best we can. It's not like there's a ton of studies of poultry as pets, as there is of dogs and cats. Most of us don't even have access to a vet who will even treat a chicken. I still get upset with what happened to my lil pullet, but then I realize I've learned from my mistake and will try to do better for the rest of the flock.

 

[bird boy]

If your are free ranging your chickens then the Rooster will eat whatever he needs in the pasture. My hens and roosters all eat from the same pellets or layers crumble. They all free range together. Your rooster will be fine.

 

[MoffatChicken]

I know this is an old thread but its a great thread, lots of good point made.

My thoughts are there are no perfect answers The extra calcium is not ideal but won't kill him just like me drinking 5 glasses of milk in a day isn't ideal but won't kill me

I use "All Flock Feed" for birds 8'ish weeks to laying females and boilers because neither layer or starter will work for that group

Again great thread!!