Can I Use Flock Raiser Long Term?

[Patinas]

Fermenting feed is a very good way to cultivate anaerobic (in the absence of oxygen) bacteria. This will result in Botulism which is a very, very, deadly disease.

So are you saying fermenting feed is a bad idea altogether or are you saying it has to be done right and that timing is important?

 

[EggSighted4Life]

Too much protein in a laying hens' diet is like too much calcium in a roosters' diet. Most broiler-frying type chickens are fed a 22% protein ration. Do remember that excess protein will result in bad smelling manure or manure with a high ammonia content because the excess protein is expelled in the manure. As for the calcium content of laying pellets, they are anywhere from 2 to about 4 percent calcium.

Fermenting feed is a very good way to cultivate anaerobic (in the absence of oxygen) bacteria. This will result in Botulism which is a very, very, deadly disease.
When I was in training in Maryland the teacher said that if you dipped your forefinger in pure Botulism toxin and let it dry that you would have enough botulism toxin on your finger to kill 100,000 humans if they only touched your forefinger with their tongues.
That said, there are large die offs of ducks and other waterfowl every year from feeding in ponds etc where feed has laid for too long on the bottom. I sometimes wonder how many chickens die from Botulism but Mareks Disease takes the blame.

Also if the carbohydrate content of your chicken feed is too low your poultry will consume a greater amount of a high protein food and convert this food into energy.

Most broiler/fryer type chickens are culled at 8 weeks, aren't they? 22% is standard for chick feed. Too much calcium OR protein would be bad for layers and roosters alike. 20% as in Flock Raiser is NOT imo too much.

I have a single chick right now with weak legs. If it passes I will get a necropsy done to see in fact IF it is botulism since other than Mareck's that is what came up... as you mention, And I really don't suspect Marecks. I also suspect genetics or possibly internal parasites (testing soon)... but not botulism. If indeed it was botulism I would expect to see more birds ailing (and I would report back to you a confirmation as I do suspect your suspicions have some foundation and I'm all about finding the truth). I wonder how many you're questioning claiming Mareck's actually being botulism were even fermenting? In fact, especially in water fowl, how many people simply don't clean out their "dry food" often enough and it actually gets rotted by the moisture left behind that was just wet and not fermented?

So are you saying fermenting feed is a bad idea altogether or are you saying it has to be done right and that timing is important?

I've been fermenting for a long time... 1.5 years. Never had a an illness or a death, yet (except 1 egg binding). My first bird with symptoms is a chick of unknown mixed Silkie breed genetics, 8 weeks old... and doesn't have diarrhea or act lethargic in any way. Just week legs. The following link says botulism in FF took place when stored in an air tight containers, which is NOT how ANYONE I know of does it.

http://www.raising-happy-chickens.com/fermentation.html

I myself like 18% protein for laying hens. Remember eggs have protein. They get that protein from the feed the hens eat. Which is why a rooster need less. GC

18% does seem like a happy medium if you don't have any chicks or feed extra Scratch. Can you provide your sources about rooster needs please? Even though roosters don't lay eggs with protein in them... don't males in other species also have larger muscles requiring more protein to build them? Muscle builders always make sure they have good quality protein available after they work out. I'm being sincere about having a discussion here.. not argumentative or ugly. I have roosters and want the best for them.

 

[GC-Raptor]

Most broiler/fryer type chickens are culled at 8 weeks, aren't they? 22% is standard for chick feed. Too much calcium OR protein would be bad for layers and roosters alike. 20% as in Flock Raiser is NOT imo too much.

I have a single chick right now with weak legs. If it passes I will get a necropsy done to see in fact IF it is botulism since other than Mareck's that is what came up... as you mention, And I really don't suspect Marecks. I also suspect genetics or possibly internal parasites (testing soon)... but not botulism. If indeed it was botulism I would expect to see more birds ailing (and I would report back to you a confirmation as I do suspect your suspicions have some foundation and I'm all about finding the truth). I wonder how many you're questioning claiming Mareck's actually being botulism were even fermenting? In fact, especially in water fowl, how many people simply don't clean out their "dry food" often enough and it actually gets rotted by the moisture left behind that was just wet and not fermented?



I've been fermenting for a long time... 1.5 years. Never had a an illness or a death, yet (except 1 egg binding). My first bird with symptoms is a chick of unknown mixed Silkie breed genetics, 8 weeks old... and doesn't have diarrhea or act lethargic in any way. Just week legs. The following link says botulism in FF took place when stored in an air tight containers, which is NOT how ANYONE I know of does it.

http://www.raising-happy-chickens.com/fermentation.html



18% does seem like a happy medium if you don't have any chicks or feed extra Scratch. Can you provide your sources about rooster needs please? Even though roosters don't lay eggs with protein in them... don't males in other species also have larger muscles requiring more protein to build them? Muscle builders always make sure they have good quality protein available after they work out. I'm being sincere about having a discussion here.. not argumentative or ugly. I have roosters and want the best for them.

Yes I do. Adult rooster for meat 14/16% protein. Adult rooster for breeding 14/18% protein.
animals.mom.me/type-feed-roosters-eat-10875.html
GC