Can I worm while they molt?

[paparootzi]

I just noticed a couple of long, thin white worms this morning also that I suspect are round worms (like in dogs but a smaller version). So, I got on this thread to try to figure out what to do. I also noticed a pinkish red slime in some (but not alot and not like blood). I had seen this color before (but no worms at the time) and one of the threads had pictures of poo that said it was still normal so I wasn't concerned at the time. But now that I see the worms, I want to treat my babies. I have different ages:

1 roo & 1 hen - about a year (These were the first ones I got from a friend that just feeds their chickens and doesn't worry about health issues)
2 hens - unknown age (bought off roadside) but are laying & sitting
5 pullets - 7 months (bought at Co-Op in Feb)
12 teenagers born 6/1/09 (hatched by one of the roadside hens)
5 little babies born 3 days ago (from another roadside hen)

I believe the worms that I saw are coming from the teenagers poo that were born on 6/1/09.

What I'm thinking so far ??? is to use Wazine 17 (lighter wormer) on all the chickens except the mother and 3 day old babies and then use a broader spectrum wormer like fenbendazole on the ones that are older than 4 months of age. Is that basically right?

How long do I wait in between treatments and how long do I not eat the eggs? How will I know the worms are gone from their system?

 

[gritsar]

Hi paparootzi and welcome to BYC!
I can only advise you on how I wormed my (nearly) adult birds. I used valbazen (albendazole) which is a cattle & sheep wormer. I gave 1/2 cc. undiluted, orally for each standard bird; 1/4 cc for bantams. Dosing them was alot easier than I thought it was going to be. My DH and I went into the coop in the morning, before turning the birds loose for the day. He grabbed up each bird while I drew up the correct dose in a needle-less syringe. Opened the beak and squirted it in. For those birds reluctant to open their beaks I tugged gently on their wattles and the beak automatically opens. He then turned the dosed bird loose outside, so nobody got double-dosed. You have to discard the eggs for two weeks.
I would be very hesitant to use such a strong broad spectrum wormer on young birds. You might want to start your own thread to ask about that. I suspect that you would want to use wazine for that, but I'm not sure.
Good luck to you.

 

[paparootzi]

Quote:
Thanks for the tip on how to get them to open their mouth! That will be alot of help once I figure out which ones get what meds at their different ages! I've got a call in to my vet that does farm calls to large animals so I'm going to see if she can give me any advice. They are all acting fine and not looking sick or anything. I just want them to be as healthy as possible. I wrote your info down and will see if I can get it somewhere.

 

[dlhunicorn]

Quote:
I would not use that particular wormer no... there are warnings (specifically fenbendazol > this is the same "family" of drugs which albendazol also belongs) against using this in molting age (young) birds or birds in molt.
You can use ivomec Eprinex however or ivermection (.2 %) as a spot-on (topical) application when worming is necessary (I worm in spring and fall) > not in the drinking water > topical application.

 

[Dragonfly Ranch]

OK newbie question with regard to this post. How do chickens get worms? And, how can you tell if they do? Do they pass it around and you need to treat the whole flock?

I don't believe that my chickens have worms but want to be educated in case they ever do.

Thanks

Sandee

 

[gritsar]

Quote:
I would not use that particular wormer no... there are warnings (specifically fenbendazol > this is the same "family" of drugs which albendazol also belongs) against using this in molting age (young) birds or birds in molt.
You can use ivomec Eprinex however or ivermection (.2 %) as a spot-on (topical) application when worming is necessary (I worm in spring and fall) > not in the drinking water > topical application.

Yes, I've decided not to worm while they are molting. One stress at a time.

 

[threehorses]

Quote:
Personally because you don't know who they're from, and the flock is infected, I'd use wazine on them all. Wazine is meant to be repeated. Instead of repeating with wazine THEN use fenbendazole or another wormer on the adults, wazine on those under four months.

If there are a number of worms, killing all at once in addition to whatever larva are in there can sometimes cause shock or clogging. The main worms are adult rounds anyway - so you'll be already benefitting your birds by removing them. But by using wazine first, you don't risk the shock. By following up then with the fenben or another wormer, then you kill the adults and larva and stop the cycle a bit.

Then the adults you can do twice annually with the broad spectrum and start the babies on it when they're of age, and align them to the adult's worming schedule. (I usually do fall and spring because the temps aren't stressful).

 

[threehorses]

Quote:
Chickens get worms by ingesting the eggs that have been shed by worms within other chickens. In a few cases, they can also get worms by ingesting the actual larva or worms. Or segments of a worm in the case of tapeworms, or a third-party carrier like earthworms.

They do pass it around, and you always treat the entire flock.

The way you really see if they have them is by getting a "fecal egg count" done. You take fresh feces to a vet, they put the feces in a special solution that makes the eggs float to the surface (where a slide is sitting). They take the slide, cover it, and examine it for worm eggs. They count the numbers and identify the eggs, determining how many of what type of parasites your bird has. Tapeworms are a different type - those you just look for segments in the feces, around the barn, and they rarely show up in a fecal.

Regular "fecals" where you look for worms in the feces are usually quite inaccurate for chickens. So if you have a vet test a few random droppings, ask for the 'fecal egg count' specifically.

You will rarely see worms in feces unless there's an actual infestation. So don't use visual examination of feces as a test to see whether your birds are free from worms. It will always fail you. The reason is that the worm must stay in the body to survive with most types of worms. They spread by shedding eggs into the digestive tract, those eggs being moved along with the food and eventually passed with the feces. The eggs stay in the environment until they're infective, then they're picked up by birds eating on the ground and ingested.

Keeping the environments of your birds' areas dry with a good well-draining sand is a wonderful way to keep parasite loads down a bit. Sand is much more effective against parasites and bacteria than is soil because of its dryness. The same goes for dried-compressed horse-type pine shavings versus hay. And of course, keeping feed in feeders rather than letting it spill on soil, not hand-feeding earthworms (Which are a major source of a number of parasites) can help. Some people use DE in the feed (Food grade ONLY) at a rate of less than 2% of total feed weight (not bulk) in hopes that the razor sharp edges of the DE will nick digestive tract parasites and cause them to die. Of course, that doesn't take care of the larva which can sometimes even travel to the lungs.

My personal recommendation is that birds re wormed twice annually with a broad spectrum wormer (fenbendazole, any of the poultry-specific 'zole wormers, pour-on 5% ivermectin for cattle, etc) after an intial worming with Wazine 17 (piperazine 17) to reduce adult rounds to a small number. The follow up of the broad spectrum in 2-4 weeks kills larva and a broad range of worms. Tapeworms are only treatable with specific meds like Pyrantel or flubendazole.

 

[Dragonfly Ranch]

Nathalie - Thank you so much you are the best teacher!! I always read all your posts and am getting the best education.

I do have just a couple more questions. My 10 hens and one roo are 25 weeks old just so you know. When should I do the first worming. Are there things to take into consideration, like weather, age - we already know not during molting - which I think happens when they are a year old.

Can you eat the eggs when you have done the worming process? I have read that you can't eat the eggs when you dust them for mites/lice.

Thanks again for all your valuable information.

Sandee

 

[Dragonfly Ranch]

Nathalie - one other question. Does giving them these chemicals take away from calling the eggs "organic"?

Sandee