Can it be something other than bumblefoot???

[luvmybirdz]

I've identified a roo that has bumblefoot. Then came to find a limping hen that I also identified as having bumblefoot. A few days ago I did the 'surgery' on the hen and I'm hoping I did alright. Today when clipping feathers, I inspected everyones feet. Unfortunately it seems around half of my birds have at least one foot affected.

Some have it on both feet, but in most cases it's just small spots. They all seem to look the same...small to medium size scab on the pad of the foot. You can see that in some cases there's 'stuff' under the scab too. The roo has it on the sides of his middle toes, in the knuckle area. That's the only difference. I feel so bad because I didn't recognize his for so long.

I'm wondering first and foremost if there's any way I'm dxing this wrong. Are there any other foot issues that it could be. I'm so bothered by how many are affected. Most of my birds are larger body breeds (GLW, SLW, Buff Brahma's). The ones I notice not so affected are the Americauna and Barred Rock. Could this be a roost height issue? Whatever's going on I need to fix it! I can't stand that this has happened to them

Oh, and w/so many affected should is there anything I should do differently with treating them? Please give any thoughts advice! Thanks!

 

[luvmybirdz]

I could REALLY use some help w/this hen! It's been over a week since I did surgery on her. She's still limping badly and mostly just lays around. There has to be infection still. Her leg feels fevered (possibly both actually) and she just isn't right. I can't be sure if her broken toe is going to get infected also (or is already). I don't think I even knew it was hurt right away. It's scabbed over at the knuckle. I'm not sure if I should just give her abx and call it a day. Would that actually cure the bumblefoot and any possible infection issues w/the broken toe? I'm feeling totally overwhelmed and unsure of how well I'm really getting the bumblefoot taken care of in any of them. If the abx would work, I'm ready to do all of them and be done! Someone please advise!!! Thanks

 

[TwoCrows]

Can you post some pics? Bumblefoot is actually a laymans term for the infection a bird gets from a hole in the skin of the foot or foot pad. Basically it is a staph infection. An infection from a broken toe is something completely different.

However that does not mean that you don't have a several things going on here.

To address the bumblefoot which will affect the bottom of the chickens pad or the webbing between the toes, you will need to do surgery. Think of it like a giant pimple. It is an infection that is basically walled off inside the pad or webbing and must be physically dug out.

I have constant trouble with bumblefoot in my flock, due to the lay of the land and the heaviness of my breeds. They can get puncture wounds from sharp rocks, thorns, slivers on roost bars or even bruise their pads enough jumping down off high perches and get infected feet.

If you catch it early enough, bumblefoot is very treatable. You do not have to work on EVERY scab you see. What I do is monitor each chickens pads and scabs. The tiniest of scabs can be wiped with an alcohol pad each day and watched. If the scab is a bit bigger, I may just apply neosporin an keep the foot wrapped with vet wrap till the scab falls off. Other feet that have large scabs, red pads or limping chickens need to have it dug out.

Sterilize all your tools, towel the bird and dig out as much of it as you can. Follow the hole down as far as it goes, cleaning out any infected tissue, (any tissue that is not red), gunk, chunks and liquid pus. I have had GREAT luck using the antibiotic Lincomycin as a topical thing, shooting it down in the hole and then applying Preparation H for the swelling.

These birds that have surgery bandaged up and are unwrapped daily and if there is any pus at the surface, they get a daily draining of this pus until it stops. Lincomycin irragations and more Prep H each day. These feet remain in bandages until the scab falls completely off. If the scab looks blood red the day following the surgery or any time during the daily checks, then it is left alone. If it looks pusy, then it is removed and worked on.

ALWAYS leave the foot bandaged until it heals. ALWAYS. Dirt will get under the tinyiest of scabs and reinfect. I have birds with both feet bandaged. Just the way it is around here. The bandages remain on until the scab falls off.

As far as broken toes...you will need figure out if they are indeed broken. You could tightly bandage them to help them repair. And torn skin on the toes you can apply neosporin and wrap.

If you can upload pics, it really would help.

Good luck!!

 

[janinepeters]

Bumblefoot is an abscess, a walled off infection, in the foot. The way a chicken gets it is by cutting the foot on something. The cut gets infected and becomes an abscess. So if a lot of your birds have it, it means there must be something sharp in their environment that they're stepping on and cutting their feet on. You will have to figure out what it is, and remove it.

In early, mild cases, the infection is limited to the foot abscess and sometimes can be treated with TricideNeo soaks and no surgery or foot wraps. You do not need to remove the scab. There are some very recent threads on this - google or just look over threads from last few days. Sounds like this treatment might be appropriate for some of your birds.

In more severe cases, or if the bird has had it a long time, surgery might be necessary, in which case you will have to keep the wound very clean and wrap it, to prevent reinfection.

Sometimes the infection gets into the bloodstream and the chicken can become very ill with fever and will eventually die if left untreated. It sounds like this may be the case with your post-surgical bird. These birds need both local (on the foot) and "systemic" (in the bloodstream) treatment. Systemic antibiotics are given to chickens either orally or intramuscularly, I think, but I have not done this before and do not know which antibiotic or exactly how to give it. Maybe someone else will chime in...

 

[luvmybirdz]

How long would you consider 'having it a long time'? My girls are only 9 months old. I'm unsure how long this has been an issue for them, but they've only been out in the coop for around 7 months. Most of the scabs aren't huge. I've (rather than cutting into them) dug the scabs off a couple of them and gotten the little bit of gunk just under the scab that I could. They were bandaged w/vet wrap and nonstick guaze w/neosporin.

The one I operated on is healing over well from my understanding of how it looks. It's more her behavior and the feeling of fever in her leg. I have read about foot soaks w/stuff that could be used rather than surgery. I need to google that and find out where I get that from. I would MUCH prefer that over all the bandaging. I'd love to post pic, but I'm not super good at it. I'll try to figure out what I'm doing and how to get them on here

. Thank you both SO MUCH for the replies! I've been so worried about my girls and how to fix them! I'd say these are issues w/roost height probably. Most of my affected are my larger girls. I can't think of anything in the terrain that would be giving them an issue, but I'll definetally be checking my yard out.

As for the 'broken' toe, I don't recall this hen having her toe like this before at all. She's definetally having issue w/it. We got a couple nubian goats a couple of weeks ago. It was just after getting them that I noticed her foot and I assumed the goat may have stepped on her foot. How would I know one way or the other. Again, if I can, I'll take pics and try to get them on here. Thanks!!!

 

[TwoCrows]

Antibiotics are generally not needed with bumblefoot and rarely does the infection go systemic unless the bird is really really sick or old. Just keep up with the surgeries until you get a hold of the infection. You may not be able to get it on the first try, but there is always tomorrow! LOL. You will eventually get it cleared up.

If after weeks and weeks of working on it and still dealing with foot infection and you are still unable to clear up the infection, you may be dealing with something else. If you start to notice huge swelling at the webbing of the feet months later, then you may have MS going on. But until then, just keep up with the surgeries, the foot wrappings and daily checking there of.

If you feel the feet need more work, you can soak them in epsom salt water for 5 or 10 mins a day to help draw out the infection and ease some of the achy pain they have. If you have honestly worked hard at this feet thing for months on end and you are not getting a hold of it, should you then turn to antibiotics.

 

[janinepeters]

Antibiotics are generally not needed with bumblefoot

TricideNeo is an antibiotic that is sometimes effective for bumblefoot. The foot is soaked in it for 5-10 min a day for at least a week.

If you have already picked off the scab and dug stuff out, then you have an open wound and will need to disinfect and provide sterile wrap. If you have not already picked off the scab I would try the tricide soaks. It is probably more effective if the abscess is still small and soft. If the lump is large and hard, then surgery might be needed, but I would try the tricide 1st. If there is no progress after a week, I'd go with surgery.

 

[janinepeters]

rarely does the infection go systemic unless the bird is really really sick or old. Just keep up with the surgeries until you get a hold of the infection. You may not be able to get it on the first try, but there is always tomorrow!

I had one go systemic in a 2 yr old previously healthy bird. She died.

I really think it is best to try the TricideNeo before you've picked off the scab and mucked around. It is so much easier for you and less traumatic for the bird. Surgery IS a big deal, here, because you are doing it without anesthesia. How would you like to have an abscess dug out of your foot without any anesthetic? I can promise it would not be pleasant.

 

[TwoCrows]

I had one go systemic in a 2 yr old previously healthy bird. She died.

I really think it is best to try the TricideNeo before you've picked off the scab and mucked around. It is so much easier for you and less traumatic for the bird. Surgery IS a big deal, here, because you are doing it without anesthesia. How would you like to have an abscess dug out of your foot without any anesthetic? I can promise it would not be pleasant.

Tri-cide Neo is an antibiotic/antifungal that you are using this case, topical. If you do not remove the scab, you are wasting this very expensive antibiotic. It needs to come in direct contact with the infection. It will work quite well if there is an open hole into the pad of the foot. And you can deal with tiny scabs with neosporin instead of the expense of Tri-side Neo.

Anesthesia is not needed for bumblefoot.

 

[janinepeters]

Tri-cide Neo is an antibiotic/antifungal that you are using this case, topical. If you do not remove the scab, you are wasting this very expensive antibiotic. It needs to come in direct contact with the infection. It will work quite well if there is an open hole into the pad of the foot. And you can deal with tiny scabs with neosporin instead of the expense of Tri-side Neo.

Anesthesia is not needed for bumblefoot.

I have used TricideNeo successfully to treat bumblefoot without removing the scab. There was no open hole. Evidently the antibiotic is able to get into the abscess even with scab intact. The scab eventually fell off itself, but by then it was already healed underneath, so there was no open wound.

Anesthesia is not really needed for anything. It just makes the surgical patient a lot more comfortable.