Can some please explain this to me? SOP Pay walls?

[AprilWC]

The way it was explained to me is that the standard is copyright material to the APA. Clubs are able to share older versions if they choose. That usually isn't a big deal because the standard doesn't typically change much between publications of the SOP.

Specific breed clubs may make their standard and membership directory available only to members in order to generate funds for the club. It costs the clubs money to send out literature, host shows, and supply awards.

I definitely see your point in making standards more readily available for prospective breeders. Though I suppose one could look at it as taking the breed seriously when you are willing to invest in the standard and joining breed clubs.

 

[RememberTheWay]

Are so-called breed standards good for the actual breed or are they a bunch of random preferences based on someone’s opinion? That’s what drives me crazy (no matter species or public knowledge thereof). In dogs you get some trait (say a flat face) that gets bred to the extreme resulting in dogs that require a c-section every pregnancy and dogs that can’t breathe. In dairy cattle you get these awkward looking cows that wouldn’t survive five minutes on your average dairy farm. It is one thing to Say x or y trait is a hindrance to the animal and breed it out but to breed so extremely for a certain (often arbitrary) trait that it affects the comfort and productivity of the animal is downright unethical, I wish the elite breed people would aim for a beautiful but also realistically functional animal, but most don’t have to have their stock try to survive in the real world (foot long hair on a Guinea pig!?).

To my knowledge and what I have chosen to bred for most of the time the poultry standards actually are there for function, as well as the dairy goats standards. I know nothing of dog standards but I am aware of situations like what you described. I don't think that the poultry standards are arbitrary. But I could be wrong. I do know that when I was taught about the standard for various breeds and the disqualifications there were valid reasons for why they were set the way they were

 

[RememberTheWay]

The way it was explained to me is that the standard is copyright material to the APA. Clubs are able to share older versions if they choose. That usually isn't a big deal because the standard doesn't typically change much between publications of the SOP.

Specific breed clubs may make their standard and membership directory available only to members in order to generate funds for the club. It costs the clubs money to send out literature, host shows, and supply awards.

I definitely see your point in making standards more readily available for prospective breeders. Though I suppose one could look at it as taking the breed seriously when you are willing to invest in the standard and joining breed clubs.

I guess you could look at it that way, but I have a hard time swallowing the pill of "to be serious about a breed, one must have money and pay the club"

 

[RememberTheWay]

Bu

The way it was explained to me is that the standard is copyright material to the APA. Clubs are able to share older versions if they choose. That usually isn't a big deal because the standard doesn't typically change much between publications of the SOP.

Specific breed clubs may make their standard and membership directory available only to members in order to generate funds for the club. It costs the clubs money to send out literature, host shows, and supply awards.

I definitely see your point in making standards more readily available for prospective breeders. Though I suppose one could look at it as taking the breed seriously when you are willing to invest in the standard and joining breed clubs.

Everything else- I definitely agree with though. Although I wasn't aware that the APA owns the copy right to the standards. That means kind of off to me. I mean they aren't the actual ones who usually do all the work to create and maintain these breeds.

And as far as it costing the club to send out literature, I could of swore that they were sending out electronically and that they actually charged individuals extra of they wanted it sent as snail mail

 

[AprilWC]

Bu

Everything else- I definitely agree with though. Although I wasn't aware that the APA owns the copy right to the standards. That means kind of off to me. I mean they aren't the actual ones who usually do all the work to create and maintain these breeds.

And as far as it costing the club to send out literature, I could of swore that they were sending out electronically and that they actually charged individuals extra of they wanted it sent as snail mail

As for the APA owning the standards...just what I was told by someone with more experience than myself. Whether that is true or not, I don't know, although it makes sense.

And for mailing literature: I'm sure it varies by club. There are also the costs of hosting shows and supplying awards for those shows.

 

[RememberTheWay]

Although I wasn't aware that the APA owns the copy right to the standards. That means kind of off to me. I mean they aren't the actual ones who usually do all the work to create and maintain these breeds.

Can't edit this now- was supposed to say that -"that sounds kind of off to me" but actually says "that's means kind of off to me"

 

[Molpet]

https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/how-often-is-the-standard-of-perfection-revised.240526/

 

[RememberTheWay]

https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/how-often-is-the-standard-of-perfection-revised.240526/

That entire post absolutely just rubbed me completely the wrong way and now I am seriously considering whether I will ever join either organization. Mainly the statement by the president over the images being used, stating that they felt they were not part of "fair use" and "people will just have to buy the ($80!) book" . What I'm having problems with is the statements made just seem very greedy, I didn't feel like I was reading words from someone who truly cared about poultry, furthering the breeds, etc. maybe it's just me but I am going to have to read all that again, and am so serious that after reading that I am seriously reconsidering joining or purchasing another SOP from them. I was considering buying the color photo special addition, now maybe I'll wait til I find it second hand.

Can't explain what I'm feeling at this point but I really didn't like the picture that statement just painted. From my perception, I am seriously questioning the organizations motives at this point. I breed poultry because I love poultry and the specific breeds I've chosen to work with. I study the standards and breed clubs BECAUSE I want to better the breed and contribute to its advancement. To me, that passion and want to help over rides financial gains. Period. In fact I loose money quite frequently.

I'm going to reread that and continue to really ponder those statements.

 

[Molpet]

Old version
https://books.google.com/books?id=r...=onepage&q=the standard of perfection&f=false

 

[Amer]

Are so-called breed standards good for the actual breed or are they a bunch of random preferences based on someone’s opinion? That’s what drives me crazy (no matter species or public knowledge thereof). In dogs you get some trait (say a flat face) that gets bred to the extreme resulting in dogs that require a c-section every pregnancy and dogs that can’t breathe. In dairy cattle you get these awkward looking cows that wouldn’t survive five minutes on your average dairy farm. It is one thing to Say x or y trait is a hindrance to the animal and breed it out but to breed so extremely for a certain (often arbitrary) trait that it affects the comfort and productivity of the animal is downright unethical, I wish the elite breed people would aim for a beautiful but also realistically functional animal, but most don’t have to have their stock try to survive in the real world (foot long hair on a Guinea pig!?).

The SOP is better than most Standards. (ie the pigeon Standard.) They Standardize traits that have historically been found in the breed and remember, the SOP is not like dog Standards. The chickens are expected to lay eggs and grow fast to make meat (and most breeds have to do both.) To be a good dual purpose bird, they have to have traits that are particularly healthy for them.
Plus a big part of chicken judging is handling the bird and finding the body that lies underneath the feathers, making sure it is robust and well-formed. This is the thing that most newbies forget to do but APA judges are pros at it.
Since people want to show their birds for years and usually have meat and eggs (unlike birds in the industry which are bred to one extreme or the other), they are going to breed for longevity. Also, having some focus on beauty can be beneficial in Leghorns. If they were raised exclusively for eggs like industry hybrids, Standard bred Leghorns would be dying of reproductive diseases by the age of 2!
That said there are a few ornamental Standards that are unhelpful, like the Silkie standard, for example.
And of course some ornamental traits need special care without being detrimental to the bird.

Also, the reason most clubs don’t post their standards is because they don’t have special permission from the APA.