Can someone define silver pied to me

[Peafowlssssssss]

Putting this here for my future reference.
I have silver pieds coming and with my IB whites and IB white eyed pieds i hope to get more silver later on down the road

This is from Hopkins
Silver Pied X Silver Pied = 25% White; 25% Dark Silver Pied White Eyed; 50% Silver Pied
Silver Pied X White = 50% Silver Pied; 50% White
Dark Silver Pied White Eyed X Silver Pied = 50% Silver Pied; 50% Dark Silver Pied White Eyed
Dark Silver Pied White Eyed X White = 100% Silver Pied

I think they means the whites out of silver pied matings not the regular white, mating a regular white with a silver pied will give you 50% white and 50%pied white eye.

 

[KsKingBee]

I am getting more confused the more I read.

Especially with the genetics and breeding.

OK, back to a basic question, I know what makes a silver, the silver feathers on the back. I know what a pied is, and as I understand it 'Loud' is the contrast of white and dark in the train according to FBC. What I don't know is what you call a pied that is more white than dark. ???

 

[PeacockMan]

Silver pieds only have a hint of silver when they are juveniles except for the hens which will remain white with silver/grayish feathers The breeders had to call Silver pieds something that would distinguish them from the Blue pieds that they look so much like. However, the distinguishing characteristic is that they will have more white than the Blue pieds. The Silver pieds should have simply been named "Mega" pieds. Their color pattern will range from white with about one percent color to the dark Silver pieds that are about one percent white. Some are even all White and will get only a pied blue neck.

But to answer the question about what makes a "loud" pied. It is a pied bird that is basically white.

 

[DylansMom]

I am getting more confused the more I read.

Especially with the genetics and breeding.

OK, back to a basic question, I know what makes a silver, the silver feathers on the back. I know what a pied is, and as I understand it 'Loud' is the contrast of white and dark in the train according to FBC. What I don't know is what you call a pied that is more white than dark. ???

Quite obviously, we all have a different opinion about what makes a pied silver, dark, or loud. If I were to use FBC's criteria then every bird that carries 2 copies of the White Eye gene is a loud pied, because they have the most contrast in the train and I simply don't agree with that. Unless it is actually written down somewhere by the UPA, I am assuming we can have light, loud, and dark versions of both blue pied and silver pied birds. The presence of the silver feathers would determine blue or silver and the overall amount of color versus white and the resulting contrast would determine which descriptor we use. Very confusing isn't it?

 

[Rosa moschata]

The confusion will continue until breeders agree to standardize terms and properly use genetic nomenclature. The phenotype "Silver Pied" is not the result of one mutation, despite it being described as the "Silver Pied Mutation." Breeders continue to say a bird is "split to Silver Pied" despite that not being genetically possible. I think this is a combination of breeders not understanding basic Mendelian genetics (as taught in high school biology that hasn't been corrupted by people afraid of the concept of evolution) with a dash of purposely keeping things confusing so backyard breeders don't figure out how easy it is to mix and match mutations in offspring with simple parental selection.

It continues to baffle me how breeders of other birds -- including other poultry -- are replete with individuals who not only fully understand the mechanics behind their birds' phenotypes but also freely share this information with others. And this, to me, is doubly odd, considering how easy it is to learn the building blocks of Mendelian genetics -- taking up far less time and knowledge than would otherwise be involved in raising and caring for their birds. Read Dave Holderread's book "Storey's Guide to Raising Ducks" to get a great genetic primer. He breaks down the mutations involved in the different plumage variations among the various breeds of Mallard-derived breeds as well as the Muscovy. Then, when you're done, ask yourself why no one in the peafowl world seems as proficient with -- or free to share -- genetic information. It's really not that difficult once you understand the basics.

 

[Dany12]

I am getting more confused the more I read.

Especially with the genetics and breeding.

OK, back to a basic question, I know what makes a silver, the silver feathers on the back. I know what a pied is, and as I understand it 'Loud' is the contrast of white and dark in the train according to FBC. What I don't know is what you call a pied that is more white than dark. ???

Here are two peacock Pied :
One is dark .... = not much white feathers.



And one with a lot of white feathers.



Both are only IB Pied peacock .... it's a question of selection !
Phenotype = IB Pied .
Genotype = 1 gene white +1 gene pied .... nothing more !

 

[frenchblackcopper]

Peacockman, I differ with you on your observation of what juvenile silver pieds looks like.Silver pieds have no silver/grayish feathers until they are past juvenile age and at that time they are black feathers.
Dylansmom,my definition of a loud pied is any peacock that shows every eye in the train as white,with a contrasting color for about 75% of the background,not a white background. I have 2 breeding bssp peacocks,one is a loud pied,the other is not.My Purple bssp male is not a loud pied. Thang is not a loud pied, almost his entire train is white.Roadtrips train is 99% white. I have heard this reference from many others,so that's now what I consider a loud pied. Once again,this is my definition from speaking with other breeders who does not frequent this forum.
KsKingBee,,again,this is how I interpet what diffrentiates a loud pied, from just a pied bird. In my opinion the top two pics above in Dany12 posted are not loud pieds either. Very few birds meets my definition but there is a distinct visual diffrence between them both for sure.

Edited by staff

 

[autumnmfisher]

Thanks everyone, now that I know i'll start telling people shes loud pied

 

[zazouse]

I think they means the whites out of silver pied matings not the regular white, mating a regular white with a silver pied will give you 50% white and 50%pied white eye.

That is not how i read it. it says white right?

 

[Trefoil]

ok from chick pictures I was told Houdina is a silver pied.
I don't see this silvery look to her colored feathers...
I mean theres a little you can see on her wing feathers there, but its more of a speckled white, not silvery... so is she not silver pied but loud? I know nothing
first pict shes the one in front, with just dark spot on her back and head. 2nd pict is 14 weeks and other two are recent - two years.
I don't know how to look at her and "see" if she has the genes.

From what I've read off site ( and its not nearly enough) I would call this bird loud pied simply because it doesn't have enough white to be a silver pied. Either way, she is gorgeous.

Thanks everyone, now that I know i'll start telling people shes loud pied

I have got to reluctantly agree with some of the other posters that at least some breeders are deliberately misleading us. I hate to think that because it seems dishonest but given the number of birds they have bred they must know and either aren't telling or are misleading. I know very little so could be wrong, but the more I think about it the more I think that silver pied is not a mutation in of itself, the we gene may be and that was necessary to get the silver pied,but once the we gene was in play, silver pied was inevitable. Again, just speculation.