Can you eat the eggs immediately if you used Piperazine?????

[Brooksidesue]

Very good question dawg53. I did a bit more research on Piperazine and how it works, and although they (manufacturer) states that egg withdrawal is not necessary, this website http://parasitipedia.net/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=2524&Itemid=2797 states that "In laying hens piperazine residues can be detected in eggs up to 17 days after administration." So that does not make me feel great about continuing to eat the eggs . It's a very interesting read though and it explains how the worms are affected by the drug.

I have a LOT to learn about chickens, and am learning the hard way after just losing my beautiful rooster, Henry a week ago. I first noticed he wasn't well in mid November. He had runny stools and was lethargic, not going outside, not crowing. I immediately isolated him and on the vet's advice, treated him with Tetracycline 250 (Mfg - Vetoquinol). After 10 days he was not any better (although he went up, then crashed again, then up, then crashed again... did this about four times in four weeks). After talking to the vet again, she switched him to Baytril since she thought it may be a respiratory infection. He was mouth breathing at times and his breathing sounded a tiny bit raspy, but not all the time. I also gave him a tiny dose of Ivermectin after speaking to a friend who lost a good portion of her flock to a worm infestation (at least that is what she was told when she had two autopsied).

As a precaution, I treated all the hens with Piperazine about a week and a half ago. A couple days later I thoroughly cleaned their coop and then mixed DE with their bedding (sawdust, the same as we use for our horses). At the time they all looked fine, now some of them appear to be getting sick, runny stools, weight loss, and about half (of 14) of my hens are missing a lot of feathers on their chest/breast and one is missing some feathers around her vent. I can't see any mites or lice but then can they be seen by the human eye? Should I treat them for that "in case"? I'm at a loss as to what I should do next but my friend suggested I at least deworm with Fenbendazole, but all I have on hand this time of year for the horses is Ivermectin. It has a same spectrum as Fenbendazole but also does bots.

I read on here that I can apply Sudocrem on the bald spots so my husband is going to pick some up on his way home fro work. What I find confusing is that all the different things that can afflict chickens seem to have similar symptoms, so it's very difficult to know how to treat them (except I'm thinking the balding may or may not be related to their general condition). I'm wondering if I should put them on Tetracycline "just in case" they picked up something on the ground, but the product monograph (from the Vetoquinol website) says Chickens and turkeys: Chronic respiratory disease (CRD), bluecomb, cholera, enteritis and hexamitiasis. When I look up each one of those, it does not appear to be those symptoms. Back to square one, no idea what to do anymore.

Any suggestions?

 

[petspoiler]

The wormer is ingested orally and travels to the intestines, where the worms are waiting to feed on anything that passes through. Duh.

 

[dawg53]

The wormer is ingested orally and travels to the intestines, where the worms are waiting to feed on anything that passes through. Duh.

How can that be when the worms mouths are attached to the intestinal lining?

 

[BYCHP David]

Good morning,

Having noticed several questions hanging out there on piperazine and thought I would offer some additional information about it's mode of action and FDA approved use. Having sold Wazine for several years in the mid-80's, I got these questions a lot.

Piperazine, once ingested, is active in both the digestive tract and is absorbed. This is how it is able to reach both the free floating roundworms, those attached and have a little bit of action on migrating larvae.

It basically inhibits the chemical that facilitates transfer of nerve impulses to the muscles, thus paralyzing/immobilizing the roundworm.

In laymen's terms, it "puts the worm to sleep" and when the worm wakes up, the chicken is gone.

Thus you normally see adult worms in the pen after administration, if your birds were infested.

That is how most of the activity occurs, although it does result in some dead worms due to the chickens immune system or other organisms in the chicken attacking when the worm is immobile, most of the death occurs after expelled by the chicken.

And other member postings are correct, FDA approved label states the following cautions and warnings while only being approved for use in turkeys, chickens and swine being raised for slaughter or kept as breeding stock:

Warning Do not medicate prior to slaughter within 14 days for turkeys and chickens and 21 days for swine. Do not use in chickens producing eggs for human consumption. Restricted Drug - use only as directed

Caution Keep Out Of Reach Of Children. For Animal Use Only. Do not give to sick, feverish, underweight or physically weak birds or animals. Consult your veterinarian for assistance in the diagnosis, treatment and control of parasitism.

Hope this helps and don't hesitate to reach out to me via our Sponsor Page with any additional questions you may have.

 

[petspoiler]

While they do feed through their mouths, the mouth is primarily for anchoring so they don't pass out of the digestive tract and find themselves homeless. They also absorb nutrients and toxins through their skin.

For the record, I was a vet tech for 10 years at a mixed practice.

 

[Brooksidesue]

Some interesting information here. And thank you for all that information David. What now has me concerned is that I live in Canada and when I called the Provincial Government Poultry Vet in the province I live in (on a different matter), she advised me that it's safe to eat the eggs while treating with Piperazine. I also called the manufacturer (Dominion Laboratories) who also said it's safe to eat the eggs and that if it was not, they would be required by law to put a warning on the label (which has no warning). The Poultry Vet also told me that they should be wormed twice a year and each time they should be done twice in three week intervals. That sounds like a lot of product to me. The thing is, she deals with the factory farms for the most part and I don't know if my backyard chickens are more likely to get worms because they do dig in the ground, eat bugs, etc... I add ACV to their water every time I refill and use DE but not all the time, it seems hard to get the food grade where we live, the feed store is always out of it.

I guess it will boil down to whether or not we want to take a chance of eating the eggs, definitely food for thought!

 

[silverback]

This is a very helpful thread. I wormed with wazine (piperazine) a month ago. I did not eat the eggs for one week which I felt was a reasonable compromise based on various postings here. I still have those eggs since I have not been able to just throw them out. My latest idea is to boil them and then peel them and at least give the crushed shells back to the hens. I will then throw the probably good eggs into the woods for the raccoons!

Any reason this plan would be harmful to the hens?

By the way I just got back from England where I have a place too and was able to get Flubenvet. This seems to be an excellent wormer with no withdrawal time. I will use that in the fall. Too bad it is not available in the U.S.

S.

 

[Outpost JWB]

Just wanted to add a word of advice for all of you that toss your eggs....for years now I have wormed my flock in the spring. We use a Piperazine liquid added to water called "Pig Swig". For best practices, I with hold the eggs for 30 days, because they are treated once, then treated again 7 days later. I scramble the eggs and feed them mostly to our English Setter. If she is getting wormer into her system once a year, great. We have not had any issues doing it this way. If we have an excessive amount of eggs during this period, I cook them, place them in freezer bags and mark it "Dog Eggs" , then date and freeze. I have also fed the scrambled eggs back to the flock. Hope this helps you all.

 

[CluksNDucks]

Just wanted to add a word of advice for all of you that toss your eggs....for years now I have wormed my flock in the spring. We use a Piperazine liquid added to water called "Pig Swig". For best practices, I with hold the eggs for 30 days, because they are treated once, then treated again 7 days later. I scramble the eggs and feed them mostly to our English Setter. If she is getting wormer into her system once a year, great. We have not had any issues doing it this way. If we have an excessive amount of eggs during this period, I cook them, place them in freezer bags and mark it "Dog Eggs" , then date and freeze. I have also fed the scrambled eggs back to the flock. Hope this helps you all.

Just curious as I'm getting ready to use Pig Swig with my flock, have you found it necessary to follow up after 7 days? Or do you do it just as a preventative?

 

[Outpost JWB]

After 1st treatment, I treat again at 7 days to kill off any newly hatched eggs. With the cycle of roundworms, the chickens will poop, then another chicken eats the eggs in the poop, then the cycle starts all over. I have always followed up with a 2nd dosage for reassurance, so I can't really say if it's absolutely necessary, but that is how I've always done it. Hope this helps. Let me know if you have any further questions