Candeling and hatching diary.

[Dawnrenae]

OK first of all what are you using for a candle?  Second why only twice a day?  You should be turning them Odd numbers a day.  Three times is usually good.  If they stay to long on one side they will stick to the shell and you might as well forget it. 

But it does sound like you are not having that issue.  If you were they would be clearer..

Never hear having air cell on both end.  I don't think that's exactly what you are seeing.  You probably see some empty space on the smaller end which is normal, Your baby is in a oval shape in the middle of the shell.  As it gets closer to the day he will fill up the entire egg., you will not see anything or at least it will be very difficult to see anything.

Home made bators ARE the best in my opinion.  Do you have a fan?  What is the humidity and temp at right now>?


No need to keep opening the bator to candle. next candling should be three days before there due date..

Temp was 100° even and humidity was 45%.

Could exactly just be open space.

None of my eggs show clear? But, I see no wiggles?

Only turning twice a day was advice from my friend who has been hatching for a long time.

I am using a still air hova-bator. It was a gift, no turner, so, I just use a makeshift one.

 

[Lacrystol]

Temp was 100° even and humidity was 45%.

Could exactly just be open space.

Only turning twice a day was advice from my friend who has been hatching for a long time.

I am using a still air hova-bator. It was a gift, no turner, so, I just use a makeshift one.

Well you should turn them Three times a day, you could start now. it doesn't matter what time you turn them. I would turn mine at 8 in the morning, 6 at night then again at midnight. Chicks don't go by time, they go by days. As long as you have 4 hours in between the turns your OK. Doesn't have to be every 8 hours. or in your case probably every 12 hours. No need to time it that good.

The less they get turned the higher chances of you having malformed chicks. NOT saying all your chicks will be malformed, just saying the chances of them NOT being malformed are greater the more you turn them..

Your temp is good and your humidity is good. What do you plan on putting your humidity at for lockdown?

 

[sasimpson77]

I am not positive, but, I think I may have killed 12 babies.

Perhaps I do not know how to candle properly, or I am not seeing right, but, I see 12 air cells, veins in 9 eggs, but no signs of life. I am on day 14.

My eggs actually look like they have 2 air cells. Point end and round end. And very dark in the middle.

Should I have candled more frequently?

I have only candled twice.

The incubator has technically stayed steady in temps, and humidity, fluctuating between two and three degrees, and 5% humidity, but not for long.

My weighing and candling process has taken 20 minutes total.

Not sure where I went wrong in the process.

Home made turner. Turning twice a day am/pm. Incubator is in a safe location where the room temp stays about the same within 10 degrees, fairly gentle and quiet.

Wondering if I candle on lockdown, and toss em, or, like my friend says, keep em going. If no one hatches by day 23, start again?

Ahhhhh. I can't even stop crying right now.

Doesn't sound like you have killed them to me actually sounds good blood veins mean life some times they just don;t move for you.

 

[Lacrystol]

Doesn't sound like you have killed them to me actually sounds good blood veins mean life some times they just don;t move for you.

Agree, I'm thinking what ever is being used as a candler may not be bright enough to see them actually move.

 

[Dawnrenae]

As far as humidity for hatch, I am thinking between 65 and 80%? I know it is supposed to be very high. And we live in a dry state, so I am guessing that should be proper?

 

[Lacrystol]

As far as humidity for hatch, I am thinking between 65 and 80%? I know it is supposed to be very high. And we live in a dry state, so I am guessing that should be proper?

80? way to high, should be more like 60 to 65. 70 is still OK but 75 is pushing it and 80 will kill them

 

[Dawnrenae]

Glad to know. I was told that since we are so dry high humidity was best. I shall keep them below 70.

Thank you.

 

[Lacrystol]

LOL No problem, keep us updated..

 

[HickoryHollow]

I have been back and forth with Sally Sunshine about temp, humidity, etc. She has been so kind and helpful, and requested we share our conversation here to help others. So......here it is:

Ok, Let's try it here.....

1. What temp do you incubate at in your coolerbator?
2. What temp do you hatch at in your hatchers?
3. What do you feel the perfect humidity is for the first 18 days?
4. What do you feel the perfect humidity is in lock-down?

This coming Saturday, I will be putting 80 eggs in the new cabinet incubator I just built:

https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/872944/designing-an-incubator/40

It is holding temperatures within +/- 0.2 degrees. I just love it for that.....but I can't seem to get the humidity above 60%. Unless what you tell me is different, I think that 60% is high enough, but I sure hope so......

My first hatch I used a borrowed LG. I had some temp swings, I think mostly due to the incubator being in an unheated workshop. I used the dry hatch method once I read about it, but for the first 2 or 3 days, I had water in the channels of the incubator. I didn't add any after that until lock-down. I then added water and wet paper towels and the humidity went to 70% for most of lock-down.

Out of 26 eggs, 3 were infertal, 2 had cells started but quit, 18 were fully developed dead chicks, and 3 hatched. I did eggtopsies and found all the dead chicks in the same condition. There was a good air cell, but the chicks were "butt up" with their beaks tucked under a wing (head toward the narrow end of the egg).There were no internal pips in any of these. If I understand what I read properly, it sounds like the chicks got too big too soon and couldn't flip in the egg to pip at the top. Caused by too high of humidity? Does any of that make sense?

I darn sure don't want to do that again!

Thanks for you time. I know there is plenty of information on the forum, but sometimes it if very conflicting. I know you are successful and want to try doing everything exactly as you do and see If I can be as successful as you have been.

Thanks again,
Tim

Sally Sunshine
Today at 6:38 am
Hearsay will kill your hatch every time, just saying....
All the answers I have for you below and the links for the abstracts and studies are in the article I wrote https://www.backyardchickens.com/a/hatching-eggs-101 and most I have had to research out of my own mistakes. It takes a bit to have a good eye for air cells, it takes time to understand the hatching process, key are the following.....

Ventilation see suggestions in that section
Turning 45 degree no less and many times a day and three is minimum and you will see tons of malpositions with just three times. I havent had but two since I use the cabinet incubator, amazingly I proved it to myself turn more than three times!
Temps have to be spot on, Calibration is KEY! Shuffle eggs around throughout incubation because even the best incubators have warm and cold spots. NEVER NEVER during the first 18 days run below 99.5 NEVER!
Humidity NOT A SET NUMBER NEVER EVER NEVER! its all about the weight loss and size of air cell in the egg!


First things first,
I always request how I want my eggs collected, stored, shipped, SEE Ozexpats letter to egg shippers in the article. THIS IS SO IMPORTANT I COULD SCREAM IT!
See question 3 for best timeframe/egg age to set young flocks eggs
I only settle eggs for 12-16 hours even rolling air cell eggs
When set I treat EVERY EGG DIFFERENTLY that is shipped depending on its air cell condition (see the Shipped eggs section in the article for details)
Any eggs that I plan to store longer than 7 days I put into a cool location, LITTLE END UP and in a STYROFOAM egg carton closed and NO turning during storage, just keep humidity in the room as close to 70 as you can keep it, I hang a damp towel in one of our garage closets which is cool in the winter, in the summer they will move to another closet.

1. What temp do you incubate at in your coolerbator? I run 100-100.5 in my cabinet cooler CALIBRATION IS KEY for both hygros and thermos, it is worse to run at 99 than it is to run at 101 and I seen it over and over, HOWEVER I have also seen bloody open navels with high temps over 101 that early hatch day 19-20.
CALIBRATION CALIBRATION CALIBRATION!

2. What temp do you hatch at in your hatchers? I hatch in the reg coolers, I move them from the cabinet cooler bator about day 16-17 and keep reg coolerbators at 99.5 running and day 18 I add a little warm water estimate 55-60% humidity and then I candle often day 18-19 looking for internals when I see first internals I drop to 98- 98.5 and up humidity to about 70-72% (this may sound strange but my window on my coolerbators tell me when I have the right humidity, two of the corners of plexi will show just a hint of condensation. And then when they start to hatch I get just a bit more)

Researchers have found that lowering temperatures will prolong incubation,
HOWEVER it is favourable to do so at the end of incubation.
Day 19 & 20 Temp Min 98.0 Max 98.5
Day 21 Temp Min 97 Max 98.0
for more information please refer here:
http://www.hubbardbreeders.com/managementguides/Incubation guide (english).pdf​

3. What do you feel the perfect humidity is for the first 18 days? There is no set number for humidity EVER, you need to judge with what eggs your loading up, example shipped eggs can be up to 10-14 days old until you get them and air cells are huge which means there was already water/weight loss, you will need more humidity for them, fresh eggs from young flock are best held for 7 days before setting, because they have little to no air cell and its simply proven that they will hatch better aged and their internal contents again are different from an old hens eggs.

Do you understand what a chicken "clutch" is? its a natures way of naturally aging the eggs so the hen can sit on them and hatch in a timely manner. Her day 1 of clutch egg will be totally different inside structure than day 5-7 egg. It very interesting to study how all that works, it gives you much better understanding for incubating. Again I threw tons of links in the article for reference materials for everyone who wants to learn and understand more, explore the articles links!

I highly suggest weighing of eggs and NOT judging air cells for weight loss for beginners, however even this you need to keep in mind age of the eggs and what the air cells look like when you get them. It takes alot of practice and time to get a "FEEL" or "EYE" for air cells.

Also there are in fact breed differences and weight loss, I wouldn't let my serama go with low humidity during incubation because they don't have much weight to loose and in the end if you dry incubate they simply die in there of either adhesion or just lack of liquids.


4. What do you feel the perfect humidity is in lock-down? Lockdown again depends on the weight loss, if I screwed up and air cells look too big I use more humidity. When "draw down" and internal pipping occurs and the air cells look huge I will up the humidity to 70- 74 and I hatch so many at this point my humidity goes to lower 90's easily with that many wet chicks hatching at the same time. VENTILATION at the end is key! never close vents to adjust humidity EVER



5. Out of 26 eggs, 3 were infert, 2 had cells started but quit, 18 were fully developed dead chicks, and 3 hatched. I did eggtopsies and found all the dead chicks in the same condition. There was a good air cell, but the chicks were "butt up" with their beaks tucked under a wing (head toward the narrow end of the egg).There were no internal pips in any of these. If I understand what I read properly, it sounds like the chicks got too big too soon and couldn't flip in the egg to pip at the top. Caused by too high of humidity? Does any of that make sense? Were the chicks in fact large? a big wet chick sorta looks big and somewhat mushy, you can see more skin on their backs at hatch and less feathering or short feathering. How much water or liquids were inside with the chicks on breakout analysis? Have you found the WHAT WENT WRONG section and dove into the links to read and look at images to compare your hatch break out with? is this what you feel by looking at them happened? KEEP IN MIND WHAT I STATED ABOUT LOW TEMPS! I would run a bator at 101 long before I chose to go to 99 during the first 18 days! The worst thing you can do is run low temps, next is high humidity and I can go on and on...


6. It is holding temperatures within +/- 0.2 degrees. I just love it for that.....but I can't seem to get the humidity above 60%. Unless what you tell me is different, I think that 60% is high enough, but I sure hope so...... This is why I wanted to stick with a cooler, they hold that humidity very well as they are not of material like wood that sucks the humidity up. ARE you sure your spot on temps all over that bator, back forth up and down? ARE YOU SURE your getting the right humidity reading? show me what your doing to bring humidity up please, remember surface area is what raises humidity NOT DEPTH.


This coming Saturday, I will be putting 80 eggs in the new cabinet incubator I just built: fresh, shipped ? breeds?


Also would like your permission to move this onto the diary incubation thread as it can help others at some point, or you can copy paste it all over and I will see it and respond on that thread.

here is the thread just post a hello and you can copy paste then.....

 

[HickoryHollow]

Were the chicks in fact large? Yes, at least it seemed so to me....

a big wet chick sorta looks big and somewhat mushy, you can see more skin on their backs at hatch and less feathering or short feathering. How much water or liquids were inside with the chicks on breakout analysis? There seemed to be a lot of liquid inside the membrane, but none in the air cell.

Have you found the WHAT WENT WRONG section and dove into the links to read and look at images to compare your hatch break out with? No, I had not found the "what went wrong" section but sure will look for it now!

is this what you feel by looking at them happened?

ARE YOU SURE your getting the right humidity reading? show me what your doing to bring humidity up please, I have a small loaf pan full of water under the fan and between the bulbs. I moved 22 eggs from the LG to the new incubator for lock-down. To raise the humidity more for lockdown, I also added 2 small trays of water 6"X12" each in the bottom of the inc. in front of the air return vent. I have a hygrometer in one of the trays, and a digital hygrometer on it's way from china.....

None of the pics I have with me show the bottom trays, but here is what I have......











This coming Saturday, I will be putting 80 eggs in the new cabinet incubator I just built: fresh, shipped ? breeds? Fresh from my own Golden Buffs (saving all this week)