Canker caught late - too late to save?

[Idakoyuu]

My 6 year old barred rock hen AC has canker and I unfortunately caught it too late. She has every symptom for it, foul order from mouth, cheesy, yellow lesions in her beak and throat, weight loss, etc.

I noticed it about three weeks ago and gave her a carnidazole pill, waited a day or two, saw no changes so I ordered metronidazole. The second the treatment (metronidazole) ended her lesions got much much worse, originally they were entirely on the side of her beak, and the bottom of her mouth. She could eat and drink fine. They are now at the back of her beak, blocking her throat up. Her tongue has been pushed out of the way and her beak isn't closing, she can't drink and can barely eat but she is trying so hard.

I removed most of the lesion yesterday, but the there is still a large chunk blocking her throat. I've ordered copper sulfate and had planned to leave the mass until I got the copper sulfate but I don't know that she'll make it that long.

I started her on baytril as well last night as I'm worried about a secondary infection. She's very active and feisty today, but very very thin and not looking great otherwise. She hasn't been laying recently.

Should I attempt to remove the mass or is there absolutely no hope? Should I just make her comfortable ?? I feel terrible. It's so treatable and I missed it. Any advice appreciated.

 

[Eggcessive]

Poor thing. Are her nostrils open or could they also have some canker growth inside? Is a vet possible? A lot depends on how much it hurts you to treat her. Some people on here are very aggressive with treatment, and will do anything possibly experimenting to help them. The metronidazole should help more than copper sulfate, but I have never treated canker. What dosage are you using? Dosage is 50 mg per pound daily or 250 mg for a 5 pound chicken given orally for 5-7 days. Do not put it in the water. I will tag @dawg57 since he has some experience with treatment. He may tell you to use the acidified copper sulfate.

 

[Idakoyuu]

Poor thing. Are her nostrils open or could they also have some canker growth inside? Is a vet possible? A lot depends on how much it hurts you to treat her. Some people on here are very aggressive with treatment, and will do anything possibly experimenting to help them. The metronidazole should help more than copper sulfate, but I have never treated canker. What dosage are you using? Dosage is 50 mg per pound daily or 250 mg for a 5 pound chicken given orally for 5-7 days. Do not put it in the water. I will tag @dawg57 since he has some experience with treatment. He may tell you to use the acidified copper sulfate.

Ive removed all masses in her mouth, hoping she will do better in the next few days vet is not an option .
her nostrils are clear, I've cleaned her mouth up (it was a bit bloody and raw) as much as possible and she is resting in a small indoor coop i have. If her beak does not go back to normal i worry she may not make it, but she is a feisty one for sure and if she fights i will fight with her !

The metronidazole I am using is a powdered version, a teaspoon per quart, unsure of the mg at the moment i will have to check.
I gave her a few syringe fulls after I removed the masses in her mouth along w some baytril. I've also ordered a few other medications to treat canker so I can keep ontop of it . My apologies for the somewhat inconclusive response, I won't know much more until the morning

 

[dawg53]

Chickens are experts at hiding health issues as not to attract predators. When we discover a bad problem it usually becomes borderline between life or death. Therefore it requires aggressive treatments. Canker is no exception. Birds with canker are carriers for life. Waterers must be cleaned and sanitized on a regular basis. It is spread via waterers even after treatment if it's not kept in check with monthly ACS treatments for at least 3 days straight.

I have not dealt with canker, but have dealt with yeast infections and I've used acidified copper sulfate (ACS.)
Alot of the protozoal medications such as Metronidazole and Cardinazole have seen their better days and arnt as effective as they used to be.
ACS is very effective in treating yeast infections and canker because it kills protozoa, good, and bad bacteria internally.

HOWEVER, since you removed the lesions, there IS the VERY HIGH possibility that the acidified copper sulfate might chemically burn the raw exposed tissue in her mouth where you removed the lesions. Whether you use the ACS is up to you. Personally I would not use ACS in this instance due to the exposed raw tissue.

For future reference, here's how to use ACS:
Use a one gallon jug.
Put 1/4 level teaspoon ACS and no more than 2 teaspoons of apple cider vinegar into the jug and add water almost to the top and shake it well. Then add it to a waterer for the infected hen to drink. There should be no other source of water for her to drink. Do NOT let other birds drink from the same waterer as the infected hen. (It would be best if you inspected inside your other birds' mouth for lesions just in case.)

Make the mixture fresh on a daily basis for no more than 10 days. I recommend making it fresh very early in the morning before letting her out of the coop because birds are thirsty first thing in the mornings and readily drink water and feed.

After the tenth day, you must add probiotics to her feed and/or regular water in order to restore good bacteria in her system/guts because the ACS will have eliminated it during treatment.

If you still observe lesions or lesions disappearing requiring treatment, I recommend an Epsom Salt flush.
Mix one teaspoon into a cup of water, give it orally 2-3 times per day using a syringe without a needle for no more than 3 days.

 

[Eggcessive]

Ive removed all masses in her mouth, hoping she will do better in the next few days vet is not an option .
her nostrils are clear, I've cleaned her mouth up (it was a bit bloody and raw) as much as possible and she is resting in a small indoor coop i have. If her beak does not go back to normal i worry she may not make it, but she is a feisty one for sure and if she fights i will fight with her !

The metronidazole I am using is a powdered version, a teaspoon per quart, unsure of the mg at the moment i will have to check.
I gave her a few syringe fulls after I removed the masses in her mouth along w some baytril. I've also ordered a few other medications to treat canker so I can keep ontop of it . My apologies for the somewhat inconclusive response, I won't know much more until the morning

If you can send off for Aqua Zole today, you can get the 250mg dosage of metronidazole. Give that orally, not mixed, once a day for 5-7 days. Ronidazole is also used on some of the pigeon sites. Meds mixed in water are not accurate. I have ordered meds from this site and they are good with a decent price for metronidazole:
https://www.heartlandvetsupply.com/...kSrhHUzzfPxecyeAtxqSG1KtoljxySLsaAkmIEALw_wcB

 

[Idakoyuu]

If you can send off for Aqua Zole today, you can get the 250mg dosage of metronidazole. Give that orally, not mixed, once a day for 5-7 days. Ronidazole is also used on some of the pigeon sites. Meds mixed in water are not accurate. I have ordered meds from this site and they are good with a decent price for metronidazole:
https://www.heartlandvetsupply.com/...kSrhHUzzfPxecyeAtxqSG1KtoljxySLsaAkmIEALw_wcB

Should I avoid all powdered -zoles completely ? Should I only be buying some sort of pill, or liquid dosage if possible?
Would it be fine to start her on another round of metronidazole if she's just stopped the previous (powdered) round ? I am tempted to buy Ronidazole instead to prevent any possible immunity .. best to be safe then sorry I think.

She is still alive and well, feisty as ever but her poor little body seems tired. She's resting well in the small indoor coop I've got her in, but I'm worried about her beak. If it doesn't go back to normal by itself, should I try to tape it in place overnight ? She cannot drink by herself whatsoever, I've been going in every hour or so and giving her syringes full of metronidazole (i don't want the lesions getting worse and still deciding which other meds to buy ..) I am unsure if she can eat by herself . I am hoping so with the lesions removed

 

[Idakoyuu]

Chickens are experts at hiding health issues as not to attract predators. When we discover a bad problem it usually becomes borderline between life or death. Therefore it requires aggressive treatments. Canker is no exception. Birds with canker are carriers for life. Waterers must be cleaned and sanitized on a regular basis. It is spread via waterers even after treatment if it's not kept in check with monthly ACS treatments for at least 3 days straight.

I have not dealt with canker, but have dealt with yeast infections and I've used acidified copper sulfate (ACS.)
Alot of the protozoal medications such as Metronidazole and Cardinazole have seen their better days and arnt as effective as they used to be.
ACS is very effective in treating yeast infections and canker because it kills protozoa, good, and bad bacteria internally.

HOWEVER, since you removed the lesions, there IS the VERY HIGH possibility that the acidified copper sulfate might chemically burn the raw exposed tissue in her mouth where you removed the lesions. Whether you use the ACS is up to you. Personally I would not use ACS in this instance due to the exposed raw tissue.

For future reference, here's how to use ACS:
Use a one gallon jug.
Put 1/4 level teaspoon ACS and no more than 2 teaspoons of apple cider vinegar into the jug and add water almost to the top and shake it well. Then add it to a waterer for the infected hen to drink. There should be no other source of water for her to drink. Do NOT let other birds drink from the same waterer as the infected hen. (It would be best if you inspected inside your other birds' mouth for lesions just in case.)

Make the mixture fresh on a daily basis for no more than 10 days. I recommend making it fresh very early in the morning before letting her out of the coop because birds are thirsty first thing in the mornings and readily drink water and feed.

After the tenth day, you must add probiotics to her feed and/or regular water in order to restore good bacteria in her system/guts because the ACS will have eliminated it during treatment.

If you still observe lesions or lesions disappearing requiring treatment, I recommend an Epsom Salt flush.
Mix one teaspoon into a cup of water, give it orally 2-3 times per day using a syringe without a needle for no more than 3 days.

I was wondering about this. I think it's best to have the sulfate on hand, but I do not think I'll be using it with her as her mouth is in a sorry state. I will be screenshotting this for potential future use, thank you!

 

[dawg53]

You've made a wise decision.

 

[CrystalAnon]

My 6 year old barred rock hen AC has canker and I unfortunately caught it too late. She has every symptom for it, foul order from mouth, cheesy, yellow lesions in her beak and throat, weight loss, etc.

I noticed it about three weeks ago and gave her a carnidazole pill, waited a day or two, saw no changes so I ordered metronidazole. The second the treatment (metronidazole) ended her lesions got much much worse, originally they were entirely on the side of her beak, and the bottom of her mouth. She could eat and drink fine. They are now at the back of her beak, blocking her throat up. Her tongue has been pushed out of the way and her beak isn't closing, she can't drink and can barely eat but she is trying so hard.

I removed most of the lesion yesterday, but the there is still a large chunk blocking her throat. I've ordered copper sulfate and had planned to leave the mass until I got the copper sulfate but I don't know that she'll make it that long.

I started her on baytril as well last night as I'm worried about a secondary infection. She's very active and feisty today, but very very thin and not looking great otherwise. She hasn't been laying recently.

Should I attempt to remove the mass or is there absolutely no hope? Should I just make her comfortable ?? I feel terrible. It's so treatable and I missed it. Any advice appreciated.

My gal Lucy has the same thing, from a peacock that was coming into their run when they were foraging.
Where did you get the acidified copper sulfate. It’s hard to know which one is okay for chickens on Amazon.
Any suggestion from anyone? Called Tractor supply & our local hardware/feed store with no luck. No Fish Zole. No acidified Copper sulfate The one I found here from Jedds won’t be here til the 13th, unless I spend $50 on shipping for a $9 product.
Any advice on how to remove the yellow junk?! She won’t let me do much. Got some out, but it’s been really difficult. Can’t find a video on YouTube about how to do it successfully.
Poor gal is labored in breathing & literally blowing bubbles of the stuff out the side of her beak. I feel horrible for her. Gave her some warm water & apple cider vinegar to try & break it up. Gave her some fenbendozole on some scrambled eggs yesterday (only stuff I have for parasites, other than ivermectin), gave 20mg/kg, like the avian medicine book said was good for ducks. Also some colloidal silver.
Any help would be greatly appreciated!
I discovered her with this yesterday.

 

[Sally PB]

@azygous, do you have any suggestions on removing the plaques from a chicken's mouth?