Caponization

[RebelsHope]

I said animals, not just narrowed down to farm animals. Although I know that horses and llamas do have some sort of local is given, if not knocked out all the way.

A lot of barbaric things are done to farm animals which is why some countries are trying to change that.

 

[Wolf-Kim]

Here goats are banded. LOL. That just sounds painful. The just put the scrotum through a really thick rubber band and wait for it to fall off. *yuck* Especially in summer with the heat and the bugs. The owner said that the vets will not castrate a goat surgically, so the owners are left to band. Some people wait until winter to do it, to avoid flies and maggots.

With birds(and reptiles) anesthetic is more risky than with mammals, so I can see why you may have a better survival rate without sedatives. Pain medication can be administered, but many people opt not too. If I caponize my cockerels I will be sure to look up some means of pain relief. If all else fails I could dissolve aspirin in their water the day of and day after the procedure.

-Kim

 

[Pepperanne]

I'd like to throw in my two cents on this subject.. in regards to a meat bird ..


First of all... there is a BIG difference between capons and regular broilers. To start with a standard (ordinary) roasting chicken is culled between 3- to 5 months old and weighs 4-7lbs (2-3kg), where as a Capon is culled at 4 to 5 months old and weigh 6-9lbs (3-4kg) but that isn't the only difference. The reason Capons are so highly desired by chefs and food aficionados is because of the thick layer of fat just under the skin, a result of the caponizing. This layer of fat produces an extraordinarily succulent roast bird.


I can understand why posters are trying to sway people away from this practice I am a kind hearted person too but there many benefits to this.

Since this thread is in the "meat" section I will start a new thread on Caponizing before we get off topic.

My point here is that caponizing is not out-dated b/c of new breeds of chickens as the meat is entirely different.

I only buy capons from my butcher.. that said haha I don't think I could do that myself but I have been thinking about it

Thanks,
Annabel

 

[phoenixbantam]

Quote:
Doesn't aspirin increase the risk of excessive bleeding after surgery? Not sure that would really do anything for pain either... I wonder about local anaesthesia maybe?

I'm actually curious on the subject myself after hearing someone today talking about getting their chick caponized if it turned out to be male... I am more curious about the hormonal method, seems much better for the capon...

 

[Judy]

The trouble with local anesthesia is it uses the "caine" group of drugs, such as lidocaine, novacaine, etc. And probably everyone reading this already knows chickens do not tolerate these drugs.

I would love for there to be a way to caponize more humanely than the usual surgery without anesthesia approach. I agree it would produce much better meat from excess roos, not to mention a more peaceful flock while they were growing off. It might also deal with all the extra roos hatched in a more humane and economical manner. We processed 10 dual purpose roos this AM. Would have gotten a lot more meat for the buck if they had been capons.

I wonder whether there has been any effort/research to figure out a way to do this that does not involve surgery without anesthesia. Seems like it would be economically worthwhile.

 

[Judy]

Quote:
Yes, aspirin prolongs clotting time, and is often withheld for a day or two before surgery. People on long term aspirin tend to get more bleeding under the skin from minor bumps.

 

[cherig22]

Quote:
I would like to see the law on this, just out of couriosty. Texas law.


Cheri

 

[cassie]

I wonder how much pain is involved with caponizing. Chickens don't seem to feel pain the way we do. You use a very sharp scalpal and sharp instruments minimize pain. Also I remember the time my big tom turkey got injured. He had a huge wound in his breast. I sewed him up with needle and thread and he just stood there. I had a friend hold him to keep him from walking off but he didn't struggle or anything.

As for using the band to castrate sheep and goats and having trouble with maggots, you can cut the scrotum off below the band after a couple days and that will eliminate those problems.

 

[HidingInTheHenHouse]

I having started caponizing recently. It is intensive surgury, and I'm certain it can't feel good, but the capons seem to bounce back and get better quickly after about 24 hours. I've been keeping them inside for 5-7 days before putting them back out with the flock. So far so good. I have had some losses, but I'm just starting out and knew that would happen since I only have books and a fellow BYCer to help me figure it out.

 

[HidingInTheHenHouse]

For those who are interested in the process, I decided to share my experiences so far with caponizing. As told to wisdom_seeker:

Well, I tried it today with the older roosters. The first one I dispatched first, so I didn't have to watch it suffer too much while I dug around in its side, trying to find the right place. There is nothing like experience for a teacher. I was still cutting in the wrong place, and did not see any testicles, so after I made the initial cut with nary a testicle to be seen, I felt around inside the rib cage in order to find out if I was really in between the first and second rib. No, I wasn't since I couldn't actually feel the last rib hardly at all from the outside! So then I made the cut in the proper place. First, too high, I hit kidneys again. I extended it lower, then realized that the membrane I need to tear to see the testicle is actually quite a distance below the cut and the ribs. I didn't expect that! I guess I thought that everything should be much closer to the surface than it really was. I removed the skin in a larger area so that I could more precisely figure out where the initial cut would be in relation to the bones I could feel and the muscle groups, since the cut had to be so close to that first thigh muscle group; if fact, I kind of had to push some thigh muscles out of the way to place the cut accurately.

I practiced again on the other side. Then did it on the live bird. There was more blood than I expected, and since I wasn't working very fast, it tended to obscure vision in the body cavity. Also, I think I need to find a better light source, since I could never get my reading lamp positioned just right to see in the hole, and I kept burning my forehead on the reflector because the light was so close. I had trouble removing the testicles in one piece, and can only hope I got all of it. I used the triangle shaped forceps like you suggested, but if I pressed hard enough to grasp it, the testicle tore, and if I used a lighter touch, the testicle slipped back out. Forget any twisting or clipping, I tore both of them trying to get them out, so I never got them pulled up high enough. Hopefully the bird won't bleed out internally.

The first side on the live bird, I didn't stretch the skin near tight enough before I made the cut, so when I was done, the cut between the ribs was lined up with the cut in the skin, hence a gaping hole was left. Also, I made the first cut too long, closer to 2 inches, so I decide to put in some stitches to close the skin since I just couldn't see leaving that gaping hole. I just used regular needle and thread.

On the second side, I made sure to stretch that skin super tight before cutting, so that worked out better. Also, I was more sure of the placement of the incision, so it wasn't too long. After I removed the stretcher, the skin slid over the hole between the ribs, so I didn't stitch, since that is how I would like to end up doing them.

I noticed that I could see both testicles from the first side, but it was so far down there, that I decided not to try to get the far side one, and did the two incisions. After I practice more, I will definitely be trying to remove both of them from one side, since by the time you find one, the other one seems to be right next to it.

I would really like to have one of those "threaders" the booklet talked about. It seems like that might be better for removing the testicle without breaking it or trying to grab it. If I can find a better picture, I might try to make one.

Thanks for helping me with this. If you think I should, I'll post these details on the capons 2 thread so anyone else who is interested can read about it.

The bird seems to be doing okay right now. He ate and drank and stood up fine when I put him in his recovery cage, then went to sleep. I'm giving him penicillin prophylactic just in case of infection, since I don't trust my needle and thread not to be carrying some sort of germs.

I'll put the next roosters in the isolation box to starve before surgery as soon as I figure out when I can do the next practice session.

Later:

I did do the 2nd session with 3 roosters about 7 weeks old. Of those 3, only one lived. One died on the table when I nicked an artery and he bled out, the other died the next day. Despite those losses, the experience was truly invaluable. The younger roosters are easier to do than the older ones.

Also, I've made a prototype of the Sears "threader" tool, but haven't had a chance to use it yet. I'm waiting for a few more roosters to get a bit older.

I'll keep everyone updated as things progress.