Chantecler Thread!

[afreeman0405]

Hey all! I have started a flock, and my husband picked out a couple of Red Chanteclers (I know not a recognized heritage color) from the feed store up here. They are a couple of cuties, and are also very sweet. I cannot wait to learn more about the breed!

Snowflake- My daughter named her when she was a white down chick


Oatmeal- My 5 year old named her too.

 

[Nordic Gretch]

Lovely birds! They look like they are enjoying the sunshine and fresh air.

 

[CanuckBock]

Heel low:

Welcome Nordic Gretch and afreeman0405--welcome to the fun of owning Chanteclers!

A handful of my Chanty gals were setty (I love that--so natural for my Sing Brightly Happy Hen flock--nothing raises chicks proper like chickens can!) and now have decided it is time to cast off the winter clothing and put on a new set of feathers for the warmer weather (if it decides to stay more than a day--frost last night and scheduled fer tamorrah!). One quarter of the hens are still giving us beauty eggs...quite a stint of winter eggs since they began giving cackleberries last September! That's me good girls, eh!

Just mid way planting my veg garden which of course will contain lotsa greens for the chooks...spinach, romaine, chard--even planting sugar peas for them to mess with after the dogs and us have some to harvest! We do the raised beds to have the dirt warm up and dry out quicker--rain now every two days like the snow every three last winter. Don't seem to bother the Chanteclers though! Bro W sure made us up a very resilient chicken breed--best one I know of.

Hatch House has been vapour barriered (outgrew the original 8x12 feed room and converting this unused one to an incubator and brooder house--Yee Haw!), so next to install the plywood fer walls, caulking and paint her up...maybe finished this weekend--maybe not! Rick also has work AND he may include hauling in some boxes of gravel for his Parking Building this weekend. Lots on my go but time to chime in say, "Hi" here, finish my a.m. coffee, and zip back out for spring cleaning and more CONSTRUCTION!

The Bantam project Chants that were all natural hatched this winter (F3 generation) are pretty close to laying eggs themselves...so maybe I will do up the fourth generation in Buster the Bator in the new Hatch House...jest maybe might!

Before I tear off again in the eternal pursuit and enjoyment of happiness, here's some photos I'd like others to have a gander at...maybe chaw on them whilst doing spring/summer coop cleanings...


I have seen sanctioned judges and other "experts" call Rose Combs in the Chant females "Cushion Combs" which of course should be an instant disqualification at the shows. Read yer comb description in the SOPs and KNOW the definition of the Cushion Comb...

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Same Buff standard female, left as pullet, right as hen...​

So read the Standard and explain why in the female Chanteclers, under the COMB description...these combs are not suiting the worded descriptions??

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ROSE combs, so tell moi why then...the defining character that makes these Rose and not Cushion combs??? Can yah see it?
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I like these female combs...

See the characteristic cushion comb hairs? Smooth non-bumpy surface?​

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Medusa, she has a Cushion Comb...note the feather like hairs and the smooth texture on a very minimal comb complimented with minimal wattles...but not NO wattles. The SOP does not state NO WATTLES...has to be some wattles...roundy smooth but there!

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The Standard does NOT state NO wattles...so both of these chooks above are INCORRECT as per the SOP for the Chantecler Breed. The male above does have a tiny bit of wattle...but that hen, just a red slash and that is so wrong!

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Both these Chants above have roundy wattles! Chants MUST have wattles to be SOP compliant...

Next item....

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What is this dangly thing on their throats...is this wanted, what is it? Have you noticed this yet...some may have not!

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Here is another breed of chicken with the same dangles on the throat between the wattles...bantam Brahma hen...so where does this dangle (insert correct name) seem to come from...what comb genetics??


Next item...

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What is the line here at the top 1/3 of this hen's comb called? If you have read my Comb & Wattle article, you should KNOW this one...a genetic expectant from combining rose and pea combs together...not desired in a show comb but not unexpected! For those who have not read my comb and wattle article, do you know the proper name for this groove? Otherwise, those that know the answer, hush up for a bit to let those that don't get a grip on this genetic expectant from the Cushion comb.

All about selection and what is important to YOU the breeders, eh?

Here is a male with the same groove...groovy, eh?

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This male above...his comb is less than ideal, eh?

Has the groove and lookit what it has done to his overall comb expression. Blick, a bluck, a yuck??



Some Chant chick pics of combs...Can you SEE the 1/3 at top running across it groove, see the ones that will be squarely expressed...see the smoothness or lumps...see the hairs...see the maybe not Cushion combs??? Well can you??

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Observe intently, record and keep track so you can LEARN at yer own coops...given some efforts on your part, you'll be able to pick out good head gear in yer day olds!

Mother and Daughter
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Minimal comb...tight to the head, wattles present and in a roundy expression...not too shabby. Me likey...

Be tres careful now...in the hen, you may have not much expression in the comb or wattles to judge but her SONS sure will express her facial gear...even more so & amplified!

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See what happens in a male when you choose to use females with a not smooth comb...lumps and bumps and what a mess!

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Hilarious part...if these males were females, you'd not note the lumps, bumps, danglies and such as much...they are by gender, expressed less!

Nothing much nice about this male's head...ha ha ha...males express facial gear, only MORE so than the females.


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Male Chant combs - getting nicer, smoother, better on the boys, oui?

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I can show you good, bad and the ugly...hee hee...I got all sorts!

First comes vigour and disease resistance, fertility, production, temperament, longevity...all before we lookit head gear!

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Now sure the comb and wattles are not the WHOLE Chantecler but do choose wisely and be as picky with the girls as you expect the boys she will turn out!


So here is an intriguing pic to ponder upon...

So, is this a Cushion Comb or is this a Rose Comb?
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Why or why not...state yer case based upon what you know a Cushion Comb to be...by the worded definitions...by genetic expressions there or not there...what kinda comb do you figure this to be??



And one last fault jest fer fun...what are some of the faults this White male is expressing in his comb? I culled this male from my breeding program so cannot say how it continued on within the generations. He had a TON of faults, of which this comb was the least of my concerns....v shaped body, miscolours in a line of whites, no vigour, just a big ol' mess...etc. etc.

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Gotta fly...fun to be had fer sure...

Doggone & Chicken UP!

Tara Lee Higgins
Higgins Rat Ranch Conservation Farm, Alberta, Canada

 

[Nordic Gretch]

I have lots of reading and learning to do before I can respond intelligently to the comb discourse... in the mean time, heading south for a week to pick up eggs, and introduce the newest member of our family to grandparents and a few aunties for a week. Doing a trade on my 2 white hens for some fertilized eggs on the way down. Not impressed with their longevity at this point- they are 3 years old and we maybe get an egg every other day, and only from the one hen. I know it's only the one hen laying 'cause she lays speckled eggs, which I find to be quite beautiful. Anyway, gotta finish packing and catch those two girls! Thanks for educating us on comb genetics!

 

[Northie]

I have one pullet who really stands out against the rest, I thought she was going to be my super star rooster until she feathered out to be a pullet... Then... It was oh... Well ... Yep we'll be hatching your eggs for sure! We have one roo who is as tall as she is but needs to fill out more. The others are another pullet and two roos , and they're smaller and less noticeable in most other ways....
Unfortunately one of the things I noticed early on was the lines, slight creases through the pullets comb. How much of an oops are these creases? I want her growth rate, and over all size in my future birds, can fix the comb layer?

 

[CanuckBock]

I have lots of reading and learning to do before I can respond intelligently to the comb discourse... in the mean time, heading south for a week to pick up eggs, and introduce the newest member of our family to grandparents and a few aunties for a week. Doing a trade on my 2 white hens for some fertilized eggs on the way down. Not impressed with their longevity at this point- they are 3 years old and we maybe get an egg every other day, and only from the one hen. I know it's only the one hen laying 'cause she lays speckled eggs, which I find to be quite beautiful. Anyway, gotta finish packing and catch those two girls! Thanks for educating us on comb genetics!

Pelvic spread...when judging whether a female is laying, you may check by examining for things like pigment of body parts bleaching out and say the width of pelvic bones...and well uh, the condition and shape of the vent.


Pelvic Spread
WARNING: Don't do this just before lunch without washing up after the examination...tee hee!

Find the two pointy bones, one on each side of the vent (where the eggs come out...<<blush!>>). Usually (but not always!), if the female is laying eggs, you should be able to put two fingers width between the two pelvic bones...a bigger egg layer, three fingers.


You also may measure the depth of body which is the measurement of depth from pelvic bones to keel bone.

On the previous page (144) of this thread, GalaBoys posted the link to a PDF file you should view and read...all part and parcel of doing a general exam of your birds.


Sorry Darling...I have merely "scratched" the surface regarding items about combs in the Chanteclers. Lots more items regarding our beloved Cushion comb...we could go on for hours and fill pages upon pages discussing the finer points regarding combs...from the fact that historically there is a separate "standard" measurement on the head of the Chantecler (showing the importance held in regards to the "head gear" of our breed) to the fact that a large "rack" on a male chicken is very attractive to the female chickens--very funny we are trying to make the head gear small and the very females are making selections against our wishes. In the male chicken, his ability to sport a large comb and big wattles exhibits his prowess to support a feature that often compromises his comfort--a frost bitten comb is nasty enough to set him off his game and make him less than happy! This situation is sorta like the long cumbersome tail of a peacock...the peahen sees by the ability of her chosen mate to survive even though his tail inhibits his ability to escape and/or hide being detected by predators--against those odds, he still manges to flourish!


A few more notations on head gear in Chanteclers for you to digest...

Fertility in males:

- Pure Rose Comb = lowered fertility in the males. An impure Rose comb male has sperm that lives longer than a pure Rose combed male...this matters if you are running more than ONE male as each time the impure for Rose combed male breeds a female, his sperm survives longer than the pure Rose combed males. By this fact alone, he may indeed have his impurity survive better in your flock...

- Workings = lowered fertility in males. Sometimes you will find what is referred to as "workings" (He+ “rugged,” resulting in a comb surface of small rounded points--derived from the French word hèrisèe or prickly) in Rose combs. Now we want the Cushion comb to be smooth but there are often tiny roundy bumps on the surface...is this "workings" or is this just expression of the skin covering the comb...difficult to say for certain but we should avoid the more pronounced lumpy bumps...tiny, tiny bumps are expected but it does say "surface smooth" in the Standard! I will state that you will want to avoid very ROUGH and not smooth comb surfaces for many reasons besides just how they look and that they do not adhere to the SOPs' words. So I expect a decent and proper Cushion combed Chant to be lacking these "workings" many of the Rose combed breeds have. I do believe that "workings" will cause "extra serrations" in the expression of Single combs...something the wild type Junglefowls should have. A genetic explanation for one of the faults that White male Chant's comb has can be attributed to "workings"...the three points at the top end of the comb...very incorrect and to me, shouts out "workings" very likely may be present!

SHAPE for both genders

In my avatar, you can clearly see the back of the Chant head & neck juncture and its definition...the flat angled part...so very, very Chanty!

The barish keel ridge may be problematic for the Partridge Chantecler simply because to express that nice and precise colour pattern, this variety's feathers tend to be much firmer/harder than the Whites or Buffs (self-colours). Because the feathers are firmer and harder to express the pattern nice and crisply, the keel ridge can be seen! This is often seen in the Reds too since they originate on a cross of the Partis x Buffs.


Another item to note about the Partridge/Red varieties in the Chant...they can be not as heavy egg producers as the other varieties simply because the firmer or harder feather is less insulative in more severe weather exposures. The female uses up more energy to stay warm or cool when the other varieties may take that energy and focus it on egg production!


This poultry hobby is like an onion...it has layers...as many layers of intensity as you would like to dig into before your eyes start to water too much and you are blinded by the enLIGHTenment!

Quote:
It is a genetic expression of Rose and Pea comb and in my opinion...this "Transvers Groove" is just stating for us to SEE...Cushion comb. Now maybe if we had access to a DNA Lab that would test our Chanteclers for purity of Pea and Rose combs...one day we may well find out that being PURE for Cushion comb (P/P and R/R) means this Transverse Groove shows up...well then we would be wanting to see the SOP changed perhaps to reflect that pure Cushion combs have the crease...right? For now, we can make selections against the Transverse Groove but do this cautiously because indeed, you could be unwittingly selecting for impure Cushion combs or not?

Now, do I care about this 1/3 Transverse Groove in the top half of the comb...not so much. It will show up more vividly as that one example I posted in my last post of the male with the groove and the rounding blobby comb...but then again...I should expect his comb was too large to begin with and looks uglier and less boxy with the groove on the top portion. Just makes something wrong already just worse...he is already wrong with a large comb...so the groove (or crease as you call it) just amplifies a fault already there to begin with. The one male I showed a photo of that has a decent Cushion comb...his groove did not really detract away from a good Cushion comb now did it?

From my Comb and Wattle article, April 9, 2010:

Keep in mind...the comb is just part of the Chantecler breed. Not its everything!

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See here...this is the ONLY true way to define a proper Cushion Comb...a comb so comfy other chooks want to sit on it.

Doggone & Chicken UP!

Tara Lee Higgins
Higgins Rat Ranch Conservation Farm, Alberta, Canada

Edit to add funny Cushion Comb photo....

 

[Ken41]

All 16 chicks are doing fine. 8 weeks old and in with the rest of the flock. A few have come out of the coop area into the barn, but none have ventured outside yet.

Ken
Clarksville, PA

 

[DBerryhill]

Hello everyone. I have a mystery bird that I am hoping may be a chantecler. I bought this bird and another from a straight run bin at the feed store. As a chick they were a dusky chimp mink coloring. Now feathering out partridge type. Not many people seem familiar with the chanteclers, so I'm asking here for a yay or nay...

this bird is about 6weeks old. I believe it to be a pullet, but please correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[GalaBoys]

Looks like a pullet to me, yes.

 

[Northie]

Tara (canuckbock), can I PM you with some questions about breeding for disease resistance?