Chantecler Thread!

[CanuckBock]

Heel low:

So everyone get this...

Chanteclers, though not unique but certainly kinda

, this chicken breed may have:

- Dewlap.
- 45 degree angle to the back of the head (APA SOP: HEAD: ... "juncture with neck well-defined").
- Transverse groove (not preferred in the SOP but genetically correct and expected from a Cushion Comb!).
- Cushion comb.
- Comb surface smooth (how smooth, not quite exactly sure but I expect not to see it like a Wyandotte comb - APA SOP: COMB: ... "covered with small rounded points").



A Chantecler Cushion Comb should NOT have:

- three points on the rear
- pointed rear

Look to the SOP for the very clear and concise guidance here on the existence of rear comb "points"...page 53, 2010; APA SOP...SHAPE in MALE & FEMALE - "COMB: ... rear free of point or points."


The three points is sorta kinda like the expression of a "Pea" comb (so is a comb that is not adhering to the SOP APA directions of "rear and sides nearly straight").

The single pointed end is sorta kinda like a "Rose" comb.

Remember, genetically a Cushion Comb is BOTH a Pea Comb and a Rose Comb--a combination of Pea Comb and Rose Comb = Cushion Comb. A Cushion Comb is NOT a Pea Comb OR a Rose Comb...but both of them combined. I think it helps me in particular to understand the why's of things when I understand the parts that make up this combination for a comb.


Took some pics (yeh I know, summer time and ain't we all having FUN times running about outside like silly chooks!) of an F4 bantam project Chantecler pullet natural hatched this winter past. She is a good prospect for Chant bantams in the Partridge variety.

At first her comb l00ks very much like a ROSE Comb...

Yes siree...not alot of comb surface there to judge but it sure does look to have a POINTED (NOT a good "point" to have a pointy comb now is it!!) rear.

But it IS a Cushion comb! How do I know...well follow along...

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Still not much comb there and hardly ANY wattles (don't like that...SOP describes wattles in females as "very small" and my, my, she sure does have minimal ones that are almost NONE--eep!).

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How do I know this pullet Chant has a Cushion Comb?

The HAIRS! ​

So when is it a good thing to be a HAIRY GIRL? When yer breeder human is lookin' at you as a Chantelcer breeding prospect and trying to figure out if you have a Cushion Comb or Rose Comb, dat's when!

Yes, yes Peoples...Hairy girls are the IN thing for Chants...so no summer time waxing, shaving, or creams...keep 'em hairy scary!

Saved by the "hair ball!"

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Often you will find that the Cushion Comb has hair like projections, even on the day olds! This is MOST helpful to us in defining what birds have a Cushion Comb and which DO NOT!

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She "still" very much looks to have a pointy comb but her comb hairs don't lie! LOL​

Now up above on one of my posts here on the Chantecler Thread...I asked that you "assist" in determining what kind of comb this Standard Chantecler female had and explain why or why not.

Here is MY TAKE which is not necessarily right or wrong...just how I feel about it as of today...

So here is an intriguing pic to ponder upon...

So, is this a Cushion Comb or is this a Rose Comb?
​

Why or why not...state yer case based upon what you know a Cushion Comb to be...by the worded definitions...by genetic expressions there or not there...what kinda comb do you figure this to be??

Well OK...we see the rear kinda a point (bad thing) on the comb (it is NOT a rear that is "nearly straight"), we see the transverse groove (good thing in genetic terms), but I don't see ANY HAIRS (bad thing)? So the tally on this is 2 for bad and 1 for good. Some of the comb shape is fairly straight (APA SOP: "front, rear and sides nearly straight"), indeed it is "very small" as the APA SOP wants (I've seen WAY smaller on females but also seen WAY bigger too).

So I guess in a round about way, I would say this female does NOT have a Cushion Comb, probably better suited to call it a ROSE COMB.

Why a Rose Comb label besides the pointy rear end...NO HAIRS! I feel that strongly about the presence of Cushion Comb HAIRS helping us to define a Cushion Comb phenotype. Bet you never thought you'd love summer time hairy girls...bwa ha ha...but I sure do!

Now genetically...maybe she does have pure Rose Comb in a double dose and an impure Pea Comb in a single dose (which might help explain why the back of the comb is pointed; R/R and P/p"+") and the one dose of Pea Comb still allows the existence of the transverse groove (made by the presence of both Pea and Rose combs). Not like we have a DNA Lab in our backyards or even one I could hire to submit a sample for testing. Wouldn't that be fun to do...have a REAL solid answer on this comb expression...but for now we don't get to test the genetics.

So there...she is still a rather well combed lady this hen and indeed, if the point of making Chanteclers with Cushion Combs was so that they thrived in "the climatic conditions of Canada," we may see her Comb, whatever "kind" you figure it to be, would still do well and likely NOT freeze in severe cold conditions.


Yuppers, eh! We Canadians grow BLUE HAIRs upon ourselves, the Gents AND Ladies alike!

Bwa ha ha...my one Uncle use to try and reassure us that anything we had second thoughts about, be it trying a new food or doing something different..."Why sure you should--that'll put BLUE HAIR on YOUR CHEST!"...like that was somehow a good thing to desire??? Needless to say he did not gain any of our girly confidences with his talk about striving to attain that blue chest hair!

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Doggone & Chicken UP!

Tara Lee Higgins
Higgins Rat Ranch Conservation Farm, Alberta, Canada

 

[gootziecat]

I like this breed. I've only owned one, but she was the most docile large fowl I've owned to date. I'd love to get more of them but my only hen passed away unexpectedly, I believe, to a very warm day. We've had warmer days since. I'm wondering if others that have owned this breed have found them not a "southern" chicken, although I don't consider WV to be southern climate.

 

[CanuckBock]

I like this breed. I've only owned one, but she was the most docile large fowl I've owned to date. I'd love to get more of them but my only hen passed away unexpectedly, I believe, to a very warm day. We've had warmer days since. I'm wondering if others that have owned this breed have found them not a "southern" chicken, although I don't consider WV to be southern climate.

Average temperature where I live is room temperature and that is hot enough to make too much physical work uncomfortable! I abhor the heat and would find a vacation languishing on a hot sandy beach likened to the hot place bad person's are suppose to go to be punished when they die!

Hottest temperature a Net search gave me for Alberta was:

Fort Macleod, Alberta - 43.3 C or 110 F on July 18, 1941.


Hottest temp in Canada:

Midale and Yellow Grass, Saskatchewan - 45.0 C 113F on July 5, 1937.


Now in North America...hottest for NA was:

Death Valley, California - 56.7 °C / 134 °F on July 10, 1913.



According to Linda's book page 29 of The Chantecler & Other Rare Poultry...the Chantecler has been sent all over the wolrd by it's originator and creator, Brother Wilfrid:

Many of these countries, at least to me would seem HOT compared to Canada! SA, Africa, Spain...many places in the USA!

In 1925 at the International Poultry congress in Barcelona, Spain, the Italians marvelled at the Chant and the Italian Poultry Association' s President quipped this new and elegant breed as the "Fighting Leghorn."

Having the Chant described as a "Leghorn" does make me pause and wonder how ample a body the early Chanteclers had...I have posted a photo here of Bro W and one of his White Chants before from Linda' book but I will post it again as it shows a male chicken that is very NOT well meated out in in my opinion of what I see now as modern Chanteclers. It also helps me understand why someone might label it a "Leghorn" as it sure looks Leggy to moi!

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Now in this photograph below, taken in 1944 of Bro W and his breed again, the birds look WAY more meaty! These are the Chants that I know of, general purpose fowls!

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You mention the bird in question was docile for a large fowl. Was she by any chance perhaps (grasping at straws?) a tad docile because she was big? If she was kinda a fat lazy girl, the heat would not suit her I suppose. Having had only one it is difficult to judge an entire breed for their attributes and faults.

No matter...when it gets to around 36C or 100F at my home...nobody is happy or running about doing the chicken dance.

Now scientifically, the large wattles, earlobes and combs of chickens DO help dissipate heat! As does panting, hydrating, and getting a dunk in some water (evaporation to cool one off).

If you liked the breed, give them a whirl again but no idea if your place is suited to have small head geared chickens or not.

At my place, we'll keep NO other standard sized chickens...

Doggone & Chicken UP!

Tara Lee Higgins
Higgins Rat Ranch Conservation Farm, Alberta, Canada

 

[gootziecat]

You have a point that one chicken doesn't make up an example of the breed. And yes, I would say she was well padded. Having said that, for what ever validity there is to it, it was forwarded to me by word of mouth that Chants as a breed, aren't "southern" chickens. Only having had the one, it made perfect sense. It's a bit late in the year to be finding eggs or ordering chicks. Perhaps I will take your advice next year and see about trying a few. Judging from the "one", they are a wonderful breed.

 

[OR4-hmom]

I had talked myself out of the breed for heat reasons, 100°+ for 7 to 10 day stretches during July and August, then single digits during winter. I'll be watching for the results.

 

[Northie]

Agreed about the heat.... I can take the cold!

 

[GalaBoys]

Just sharing a shot of one of my groups that I am growing out for possible retention in the breeding flock. There is one cull pullet in this group as well, she will be going to her new pet home soon. This is from my April 5 hatch.

 

[CanuckBock]

Heel low:

With a bit of assistance by me (hee hee!) a few weeks back, Buster the 'Bator is now belching forth baby birds--GOOD JOB Buster!

Day Olds - out and about on summer lawns!​

First hatch of landfowl, 28 Chants in Standard size--all with Cushion Combs and 18 Chants in F5 of Bantam project.

I personally don't pay particular attention myself to combs in that I would just freak if they were not ALL Cushion (more to Chants than just the head gear thanks!) but kinda kewl that all twenty-eight from the first setting of Standard sized Chantecler eggs were Cushion combed--I'll take the gifty thanks! Makes it pretty certain the male I used is pure P/P R/R--he gets a gold star beside HIS name on that attribute!

Standard and Bantam-project Chanteclers​

Red Chant doing FACE PLANT in starter - "Too full to fart?"

Second hatching I changed roos on some of the hens and got a few pea combs. Two dozen Standards and a dozen Bantam project Chanteclers. More fuzzies (bring on the fuzzies!) soon to follow...

Posting an example of the Partridge variety in Standard sized Chants from our second hatch of landfowl to show what day old cockerel and pullet breeders look like in the Partridge variety. We double mate for this variety so use a two pen system...breed for show males (male/female in cockerel breeders), breed for show females (male/female in pullet breeders).

Directly in center is a cockerel breeder Partridge Chantecler
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Note the rich DARK mahogany chick down colour and lack of complete "chipmunk" markings as we see in the pullet breeders. The Standard of Perfections will describe the adult plumage of the Partridge variety for only HALF the breeding pen required to double mate for show birds. It is helpful (I feel) to show the "off side" individuals (what the boys in the pullet breeders/what the girls in the cockerel breeders l00k like!) to the double mated pen.

Now don't go thinking I know which gender each of these chicks are by the chick down...just which will be for making the potentials for show males and which will be the potentials for making the show females. As far as I understand in the Partridge variety in the Chanteclers, no sex linked colour genetics are in play here.

Show males = Lack of pencilling markings (so clean chested as adults) & DARK (BEETLE GREEN BLACK chests are wanted).
Show females = Pencilling markings & less dark--more RED (DEEP REDDISH BAY wanted).

Second hatch being moved from Buster the Bator to Brooding area -
Standard and Bantam Project day old Chanteclers all in a DOG pile!

Looks promising in the bantam project on the F5 generation of Chanteclers - one can SEE the majority of the bantam project subjects ARE basically exhibiting white chick down BUT still that cast of phaeomelanin (buffy yeller) on the head towards the beaks, some on the wing bows, back. Some showing much less...not a pristine vivid white down as I see in my White variety in the Booted Bantams, but we'll take it...surely we will!

All bantam feathered legs here (except two coloured Wyandottes)...now l00k to SEE the BRIGHTEST of White chick down in these Booted Bantams​

I am striving to get chick down in the Higgins' White Dove bantam project Chanteclers to mimic this clean bright White (like those UNreal bleached white toothy grins that faddishly seem so in now a days!) I see exhibited in the Booteds. May get it, may not but I have a mark high on the barn wall to reach for--SNOW WHITE mark!

____________________

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No matter, I could be battling still with the presence of autosomal red...could be impure in s-series (gender linked) for Silver/gold. Either autosomal red or gold can make a red leaky self-white--oh bother bother, eh! Could be both autosomal red AND gold...these do make for awesome complimentaries in the Buff and Partridge varieties...jest not so wanted in the Whites...hee hee!

I DO have small size though to count our blessings! And basically that IS something to celebrate since the initial point of the WHOLE endeavour of nine years of efforts was to take Standard sized and cross them to Bantams AND make the smaller bird...duh!

Note the white and white with yeller/buff day olds are smaller than the porky puffed butted fuzzer Standard sized Chants!​

On The Wings Of A Snow-white Dove - Marty Robbins:

The Higgins' White Dove bantam project continues...patience is a virtue in all things CHICKENY, yes?

Doggone & Chicken UP!

Tara Lee Higgins
Higgins Rat Ranch Conservation Farm, Alberta, Canada

 

[chickadoodles]

I got a couple pics of a couple of my Chantie pullets that are nearly 6 months old. What do y'all think of them?

 

[CanuckBock]

I got a couple pics of a couple of my Chantie pullets that are nearly 6 months old. What do y'all think of them?

My favourite way to visually judge my Chanteclers is to use the 1923 air brushed photograph that Arthur O. Schilling did up on the Standard sized White Chantecler. A black and white photo of each gender may be found in the 1998 APA SOP.

Here is the female.

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Here is another side profile of a White Chantecler female.

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I have photocopies of both genders pinned up in sheet protectors in my coops...this way, I may look up at what I deem as "perfection" and then look down at the REAL birds to do an instant comparison as to how close my birds are to my ideal form of the Chantecler.

For comparison, here is a drawing of a female in the partridge variety.

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Best to look "past" the colour of any variety to SEE shape...don't care which variety is being judged...the shape of the breed IS to be the same for all of them.

How close do you figure your six month old pullets are to resembling any of these birds?


I take photos of side profiles to judge looks...my avatar is a good example of a side profiled photo. Set your pullets up to stand level & balanced and take some side pics. Great way to keep records of what your stock looked like at six months of age...you will enjoy seeing the pullets thicken up and become hens...keeping pictorial records is just simply great FUN!

More "normal" people might find it odd but us chickener persons will understand how valuable an album full of chooks of different ages is...tee hee... Our extended family flocks of the GRANDchooks. Jest don't flip out the long sleeve of chicken pics and expect to be well received for coffee time at Tims!

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Male or Female Chanteclers - I like to see WIDTH & DEPTH in those blocky bods!

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While none of my birds are perfect...I keep at this with hopes we can one day be CLOSER!

I look for a blocky overall body (brick with rounded corners), wide/long in back so the bird may have lots of room to make eggs or a structure for meat to hang off of. I want a back long enough I could throw on a mini/mini dwarf-sized saddle on them and ride--Now for sure the persons with the white coats that do up in the back are coming for moi--grandchooks, dwarves...yes too much coffee time for you--need a nice rest away from the farm to get me straightened out!

So loooong length of back, and some of the Chanti characteristics like the 45 degree angle where the back of the head and neck meet--book balancers!

Nice yellow legs and feets, smallish bright red healthful facial gear...mischievous intelligent glint in the eye but a good amiable rustic temperament all round, active forager full of vim and vigour with a decent feathered suit for both cold and heat tolerances.

Red Chant cockerel showing YELLER pigmentation in his bill and some decent head gear​

I expect for the June hatched Chantecler pullets to begin laying for us here about mid November and on through the winter and spring. Decent large brown well shelled eggs in plentiful supply.

I think your first photo shows a pullet with a long back but there is one behind it that is putting a BUMP in the back of the first pullet in the photo...

Are you feeding them greens &/or a bit of yellow corn (not a lot of corn-chicken candy since it's summer and corn = heat!)? I would expect and like to see yellower legs and beaks on your birds at this age. Are your pullets laying (intense egg laying can very well sap out the yeller pigments) or is it pretty hot (high summer temps can make young females hold off on beginning to lay)...What do you think of the quality of the eggs if they are laying?

The reason we added the Chantecler breed to our roster here was for EGGS and MEAT...general purpose fowl...so I track production aspects of our strains. Nine pound cockerels in the fall and I like to see BIG good quality eggs consistently supplied from the females (I hatch chicks from big decent eggs to make more and more of the same!). Bro W made the Chant to put food on the plates of the us common folk here in Canada, so expecting food from the chooks is just natch!

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Here is an egg from the Chant hens yesterday...not Jumbo sized like we get more often in the Spring but still an Extra Large.​

The females are slowing down on egg production now (going since November of last year!) and four have gone setty so are not laying but being fluffy sitting bock a bockers. Silly girls!

I expect some moulting of feathers for going into winter garb to happen next in the flocks (I will increase the whole heavy oats content in their ration as these make for awesome good feathers!)--temps this week will be in the 30's (86F), so I figure good time to be going baldish! Can you say, remnants of PILLOW fights, anyone?

Doggone & Chicken UP!

Tara Lee Higgins
Higgins Rat Ranch Conservation Farm, Alberta, Canada