Chantecler Thread!

[HallFamilyFarm]

Then shouldn't you want the Partridge Chantecler, originally named Partridge Albertan developed in Edmonton rather than the white which is unrelated and developed in Quebec?

In 1873, Canadian and US poultrymen founded the American Poultry Association. Its the oldest livestock organization in North America. Poultrymen in both Canada and the USA are members, judges and directors. When the partridge Albertan was submitted for Standard of Perfection acceptance, the committee of both Canadian and US judges recommended it to be entered as a Chantecler, because in reality, it was a Chantecler. The board of the APA then voted to accept it as the Partridge Chantecler.

Today's breeders may call it whatever they wish, but it is still a Partridge Chantecler. Only one man ever called it an Albertan. True he got ticked and never submitted the many other varieties he had developed. But today, there is no breed called Albertan. The APA leadership commented on this last year. It was stated that no name change of the Partridge Chantecler would ever happen. Calling it an Albertan confuses newbies and detracts from the breed overall.

Many are working on the Buff and there a few other colors showing up at shows.

We need to all work together towards making the Chantecler breed of all varieties a better breed!

 

[bruceha2000]

When the partridge Albertan was submitted for Standard of Perfection acceptance, the committee of both Canadian and US judges recommended it to be entered as a Chantecler, because in reality, it was a Chantecler. The board of the APA then voted to accept it as the Partridge Chantecler.

Are the White Chantecler and Partridge Chantecler developed from the same "base" breeds?
I was under the assumption that they were not. I really have no idea how birds bred from different stock are determined to be similar enough to be a single breed.

I found this on the albc site
"The Chantecler was created by first crossing a Dark Cornish male with a White Leghorn female, and a Rhode Island Red male with a White Wyandotte female. The following season pullets from the first cross were mated to a cockerel from the second cross. Then selected pullets from this last mating were mated to a White Plymouth Rock male, thus producing the fowl as seen today.

Although this produced a pure White Chantecler, Dr. J. E. Wilkinson of Alberta, Canada, decided to create a similar chicken with a color pattern more suited to range conditions, one whose color pattern would blend with its background. He crossed the Partridge Wyandotte, Partridge Cochin, Dark Cornish, and the Rose Comb Brown Leghorn, to create the Partridge Chantecler. "

So, pretty similar, with the Cochin replacing the RIR.

?

Hopefully not because someone came in and asked questions?

Perhaps because I took it off track suggesting the Cubalaya might be a better choice in very hot climates and a side discussion started? Sad reason to blow off the thread, it has been pretty straight up Chantecler and informative. We can continue any further Cubalaya discussions over on that thread.

Bruce

 

[HallFamilyFarm]

The various varieties in the Wyandotte, Plymouth Rock and others were attained by a different direction. But all came to the same body type. The buff Chantecler has the same formula as the White Chantecler. What the Standards Committee was looking at was the same body type etc.

The same issue came up when the Buckeye was accepted. The pea comb RIR was not accepted. Many pea comb RIR breeders bought Buckeyes and incorporated them into their flocks. But since the Buckeye was a different body type, it was accepted as the Buckeye. The New Hampshire is in reality, a RIR. But is was a production strain that was selected for egg. meat and color. thus when it was admitted it was quite different than its sole parent breed.

All varieties of a breed must meet the requirements of that breed, no matter what road was taken to get there. I personally think this issue with the Albertans should have ended when the variety entered the Standard. Heard that back in 1980ish a group tried changing the name and it failed.

 

[Blackhorsehill]

Jim,

The last issue of the CFI newsletter, and also the last issue of the SPPA newsletter, which highlighted the Chantecler, had articles on this. It is also covered in "The chantecler & other rare poultry breeds" By Linda M. Gryner

After having both breeds for a few years now, (partridge and White) it is extremely apparent that they are not the same bird.

There is a fairly large contingent of people who are interested in the dual-purpose characteristics of these breeds, and along with that goes a fascination with the history. Whenever asked, I make a large effort to let people know they are not the same bird, and that this was mostly a mistake made a century ago by a political body.

In my area, quite a few people have no interest in the White Chantecler, because of poor experiences with the other varieties. If we are really interested in bringing back these birds from what was at one time the brink of extinction, we need to look at their place in the more practical stance. Showing is only a small part of the equation, and both the interior ie, practical and utilitarian virtues need to have as much if not more credence in a breeding program. Hence, the interest in the historical formation of a breed. To focus only on what the APA has to say is a very narrow and potentially damaging focus. These were intended to be farm animals first.

My breeding program honors the parameters set by the APA,, but if a bird does does not meet the practical considerations as written in the historical records, outward appearance is small consolation. The rescue of rare breeds is not in showing them, it is in eating them. Actually, I have to amend that a bit. The APA standard calls for a lighter bird than the original "French Quebec" standard does. I am working toward the Quebec standard.

IMHO.

 

[Gneta831]

I am in NorthEast Wisconsin and breed White Chanteclers, Large Fowl. Original breeding stock came from Greg Oakes in Canada and Sandhill Preservation Society. I am very happy with these birds and find them truly dual purpose (and use them to that end). I have begun exhibiting them as well, but really JUST begun that endeavor. I do sell hatching eggs and young stock when available.
[email protected]

 

[jermoatc]

I lived in Colorado for around 12 years. I lived in Denver, Rocky Ford, and Grand Junction for most of the time. I miss it!!

To answer some of your questions. I have the partridge (Albertans) and White. They have distinct differences at least in my experience.

• The Partridge birds tend to lay at an earlier age than the Whites. On average, I would say they start around 5 months, while the Whites are around 6 months. However, I did sell some white pullets to others, and they started laying sooner than the siblings that I kept. I don't know why the difference. But, saying that, one of my breeding criteria moving forward will include rate of lay, and laying without added light. Time of initial lay most likely will not have as high of weighting as the other two factors.
• The Partridge birds generally lay a small to medium egg, but I am starting to get birds with large eggs and that will be a breeding criteria moving forward. With the exception of maybe a couple of the smaller white birds, mine lay large to extra large eggs. The Partridge birds are notorious for going broody, and I have never had a white bird go broody. That is a matter of personal preference for people. I like to use broodies when I can to hatch eggs and raise chicks, so I don't necessarily see this as a drawback, but have had some that are constantly broody, so therefore the number of eggs definitely goes down. Some broodiness, just not constant broodiness is my preference. Because of the broodiness, there is not as much of a predictable rhythm to the egg laying routines. With the white birds, I can pretty much count on pullets laying about a year, then going through their molt in the fall, then taking up laying again late winter. I do not use extra light because that is another breeding criteria. I never use additional heat, even at 20 below zero. I need to go over my records from last year, but in general I would say I got 5 to 6 eggs a week from the White birds. I have no idea with the Partridge, but not nearly as good.
• Heat of the summer - We had the hottest summer I have ever experienced in Wisconsin this last year. The air temperature was 105 for several days, and my metal building got up to 115 at one point. I lost a couple of birds, but none of the Chantecler. I will say that they were miserable, egg laying among all breeds slacked off, and fertility went way down. That was for all my breeds, too. If I lived in a hot climate, I would not have Chanteclers.
• The cockerels are excellent table birds. We just put 8 show quality White cockerels in the freezer last week (hated to do it) and have already eaten a couple of them. They make excellent table fare. I gave a couple to a friend, and she is still raving about the flavor. The largest dressed out at 6 lbs. at around 6 months of age. The smallest was just below 5 lbs. Our birds are raised outside and I do think that contributes to the good flavor. The old standard was for roosters that weighed 9 lbs (the APA calls for 8.5). One of the roosters I kept for next year for breeding weighed 9 lbs. a few weeks ago. His father, who came from directly from Canada, weighs 9 lbs. Again, going forward weight will be a criteria.
• Noise isn't an issue with these guys, more so than any other chickens. The Partridge hens make cute little cooing noises that I never hear from any of my other birds. I experiment with crosses, and even when crossed with other breeds, they make the cooing noises. They are very sweet, while as the White birds tend just be very businesslike. I do have one White hen who is very much a busybody, so it will be interesting to see if she passes on those qualities to her offspring.

I will have 4 to 5 pens of Whites going in to this next year. I got roosters from a couple other breeding programs, and hens from yet another, plus my own stock, that came directly from Canada in 2010. My Partridge birds are not at a level that I feel comfortable selling yet. So, I should have hatching eggs, and chicks, of White Chantecler but am not comfortable shipping chicks at this point.

White Chantecler are starting to show up in a few places, so in the next couple of years I think they will be easier to come by. It has just been in the last 2 or 3 years that there was anything in the U.S. to work with.

Wow. Thanks for the great information. I will definitely save your contact info. I may be relocating to Minnesota in the near future and would definitely be interested in your white chanteclers.

 

[RhodeRunner]

Does anyone weight their White Chanteclers? I put mine on the scale yesterday and was disappointed with their weight. The largest pullet is 4.5 pounds, and is already laying. Is this normal weight for the whites, at five months of age? Our Partridges are so much larger.

 

[skookumchuck]

I have always been under the impession that the Whites are the largest of the breed and that the partidge where smaller.

 

[Lacy Blues]

I have almost decided what to do.

We're having serious frost bite issues this year and I was thinking I would go with Wyandottes to cross onto my Delaware hens. But they have fairly long wattles too. So, maybe I could cross some Chanteclers onto the Delawares and they'd be able to take the heat a little better?

Anybody have any ideas or suggestions in regard to this?

 

[Jake Levi]

To me, the Partridge and Whites are two different breeds, whatever the APA says.

They were developed from different ancestors, they look differently, and have different charcteristics,

The APA has been wrong before, but this is one of their greater mistakes.