Chat Thread for the New Crazy 24 hour Auction

[farmchick897]

I don't get the whole biosecurity thing and frankly would stay away from any breeder that pulls that flag. If it was such an issue than why do petting zoos, fairs, shows, 4H, livestock auctions, etc… not make people put on masks and booties when they get near these sometimes expensive animals? AND if it is a big concern and you are worried about people bringing in disease then why not make them wear masks and booties and stay away from touching your animals? Even Fairview, the big dairy farm, allows visitors to view facility, and I'm sure they would suffer much more of a financial loss if a disease was introduced to their cattle vs a chicken farm. Now, we are talking about chickens… and frankly I'm not sure I care as much about how they are kept if I'm buying some eggs from you. Although, I'm sure egg fertility might have something to do with care? Something to consider..
It is my opinion, and many people don't care what conditions breeding animals are kept in, if they did we would put puppy mills, pet stores and factory farming out of business...

 

[misfitmorgan]

Generally no papers or DNA tests.
It comes down to doing your homework.
Know what you are buying and research who you are buying from.

If you rush in you could end up with anything.

Also we are talking chickens here not horses or dogs tha can cost thousands of $$.

There are chickens and chicken breeds that cost thousands of dollars....for just one chicken. Greenfire Farms bring alot of these into the U.S. and starting price can be over 5,000 for a pair not even old enough to breed. At this moment they sell Ayam Cemani day old unsexed chicks for $199 EACH and have waiting lists.

I don't get the whole biosecurity thing and frankly would stay away from any breeder that pulls that flag. If it was such an issue than why do petting zoos, fairs, shows, 4H, livestock auctions, etc… not make people put on masks and booties when they get near these sometimes expensive animals? AND if it is a big concern and you are worried about people bringing in disease then why not make them wear masks and booties and stay away from touching your animals? Even Fairview, the big dairy farm, allows visitors to view facility, and I'm sure they would suffer much more of a financial loss if a disease was introduced to their cattle vs a chicken farm. Now, we are talking about chickens… and frankly I'm not sure I care as much about how they are kept if I'm buying some eggs from you. Although, I'm sure egg fertility might have something to do with care? Something to consider..
It is my opinion, and many people don't care what conditions breeding animals are kept in, if they did we would put puppy mills, pet stores and factory farming out of business...

Most people who have very exspensive birds as in the thousands each do not do shows or fairs or petting zoos etc. Why would you risk someone bringing disease to your property when you can simply avoid it altogether? Alot of breeders have tens of thousands of dollars wrapped up in poultry, its not something you can say hey....the flock of 10 chickens died...we will go to TSC and buy some more this spring, lets clean out the coop. Because when the Flocks of 200-400 chickens die over 6 months time it can mean you just lost $30,000 or more.

It the same reason i dont let people bring goats where i keep my goats. They have serious diseases in goats like johne's that can live in your soil for many many years after the infected animals have been culled....meaning you cant have any livestock that can contract any type of MAP until your soil tests clean again. There is/was an very well know farm by us called Quaker Hill Farm...They used to let people come visit their farm...they were a stop on the annual classic auto tour, they were in magazines and on a food network tv show. Because of their "fame" it drew alot of visitors. They ended up with MAP on their farm from one of the visitors, the thriving farm was ended, every animal on the property had to be culled and remains burned. For 8 yrs after the MAP was found they have to have annual soil tests to see if the MAP is gone..it can take 8yrs or more for it to leave the soil. MAP is in 25% of cows used to dairy in the U.S. which means MAP goes directly into the milk you buy at the store, MAP is not killed by pasturization. There are many studies showing MAP is strongly linked to Crohn's disease in humans. The incident at Quaker Hills Farm is not isolated it happens all over the US. MAP is also suppose to be disclosed to new or potential new buyers of property when it is found in the soil but it often is not.

So you can nay say about biosecurity and how it is silly and they must have something to hide but it is a real threat that can end your farming period. If you wanna buy your own hazmat suit to come see where my animals live and how please be my guest. i am sure anyone would be willing to let you on their property with a hazmat suit, but what potential buyer is going to go thru the trouble to buy the suit at the extra exspense to themselves. No everyone just wants the seller to take the risk and if you dont you are hiding some big dark secret.

All animals in 4-h and going to fairs are suppose to be tested for all relevent diseases..but they are not. Why dont big dairy producers care about biosecurity and not letting people around their animals...they are a few answers either they cant afford not too, they dont really care because the animals will be slaughtered before the disease shows, the possible diseases are covered up. The dairy industry as with all large industries has major pull in the lobbist world, more then we will ever know gets swept under the rug. The pork industry is another big one.....are you aware they literally own almost every farm that they get pork from in Iowa? A man will come to your house and tell you we are going to build X number of barns, we are going to give you X number of breeding hogs, we are going to pay for X amount of feed, and we are going to buy all live animal products from you for X amount. You can say no....then when you go to put in your seed orders that spring NO company will sell you seed. Monsanto is another company...Monsanto is a large seed company...they will come to you and say how about you try these new hybrid seed we have and tell us how it grows, we will give it to you for this price. Sounds like a good deal so you plant it, harvest it, let them know how it does....and your done....not really. The next year they will come back with a price 4 times what you paid the year before and tell you you WILL buy this seed from us, logically you think to yourself why would i, i can get this other comparable seed from the other supplier for way less. So you plant the seeds from the other supplier...in the fall Monsanto comes back and takes a sample of your seeds and takes you to court...why? Because Their patented genetics are in your soil and will be fore years, so that must mean you bought their seeds from someone else in some back alley deal.

The first time i ever learned about all of that i was in disbelief..but it happens all the time...these big companies really do these things to people. Talk to big time farmers in Iowa...go visit some of the hog farms, you will find out it is all true.

Anyhow i am ranting...the end point is biosecurity is important and the USDA, the state vets, the Extension offices and even the DNR will all tell you it is.

 

[KYTinpusher]

I don't get the whole biosecurity thing and frankly would stay away from any breeder that pulls that flag. If it was such an issue than why do petting zoos, fairs, shows, 4H, livestock auctions, etc… not make people put on masks and booties when they get near these sometimes expensive animals? AND if it is a big concern and you are worried about people bringing in disease then why not make them wear masks and booties and stay away from touching your animals? Even Fairview, the big dairy farm, allows visitors to view facility, and I'm sure they would suffer much more of a financial loss if a disease was introduced to their cattle vs a chicken farm. Now, we are talking about chickens… and frankly I'm not sure I care as much about how they are kept if I'm buying some eggs from you. Although, I'm sure egg fertility might have something to do with care? Something to consider..
It is my opinion, and many people don't care what conditions breeding animals are kept in, if they did we would put puppy mills, pet stores and factory farming out of business...

I am another who doesn't allow visits to my farm. I raise my animals naturally, using antibiotics and other conventional medicine only as a last resort. The places you mention would not exist if they couldn't be open to the public, so they rely heavily on antibiotics and quarantine to keep disease to a minimum. Still, there are many instances of diseases being brought home from these events and devastating the flocks at home if proper biosecurity is not practiced.

You should care about how the chickens are kept and bred when you are buying hatching eggs. Their living conditions have a lot to do with fertility, hatchability and vitality of the resulting chicks. Sick birds produce weak chicks, if the eggs even hatch.

It would be nice if everyone would care about how animals are treated, but most are more concerned about the size of their wallet. If I have to risk my animals health in order to sell to you, I'll gladly forego the sale. My animals mean more to me than a few extra bucks in my wallet.

ETA - BTW, if you are talking about the big Fair Oaks Dairy in Indiana, they don't actually allow the public to interact with their dairy herd. They have put millions into building facilities to allow the public to view what is going on there from behind the safety of glass. That glass is not really there for the safety of the visitors, but for the safety and health of the cows. They take biosecurity very seriously!

 

[misfitmorgan]

I don't get the whole biosecurity thing and frankly would stay away from any breeder that pulls that flag. If it was such an issue than why do petting zoos, fairs, shows, 4H, livestock auctions, etc… not make people put on masks and booties when they get near these sometimes expensive animals? AND if it is a big concern and you are worried about people bringing in disease then why not make them wear masks and booties and stay away from touching your animals? Even Fairview, the big dairy farm, allows visitors to view facility, and I'm sure they would suffer much more of a financial loss if a disease was introduced to their cattle vs a chicken farm. Now, we are talking about chickens… and frankly I'm not sure I care as much about how they are kept if I'm buying some eggs from you. Although, I'm sure egg fertility might have something to do with care? Something to consider..
It is my opinion, and many people don't care what conditions breeding animals are kept in, if they did we would put puppy mills, pet stores and factory farming out of business...

A few other places that think biosecurity is important

UCDavis - http://animalscience.ucdavis.edu/Avian/pfs26.htm

Penn State - http://extension.psu.edu/animals/health/biosecurity

University of Minnesota - http://poultryu.umn.edu/prod/groups...ultryu/documents/asset/cfans_asset_435621.pdf

Colorado State - http://veterinaryextension.colostate.edu/menu1/bio/BiosecurityforSheepandGoats.pdf

University of Nebraska - http://ianrpubs.unl.edu/live/ec289/build/ec289.pdf

Alabama Department of Ag - http://www.aces.edu/anr/aawm/documents/05124ADAIBiosecurityGuidlines.pdf

Iowa Dept of Ag
Nebraska Dept of Ag
Kansas State University
Nebraska Cattlemens Assoc
Iowa State University
Kansas Dept of Ag
Iowa Cattlemens Assoc
Kansas Livestock Assoc - Link for all of those here - http://agr.wa.gov/FoodAnimal/AnimalHealth/docs/BioSecurityBasics.pdf

University of Missouri - http://www.conferences.uiuc.edu/resources/20033/Presentations/2E/SF Agriculture Biosecurity.pdf

Here is another handy link for Biosecurity and why - http://www.extension.org/pages/6909...ck-and-poultry-manure-management#.VNz1EfnF9y0

Biosecurity is also advised in Canada. In other countries like the Netherlands there are Biosecurity Requirements. The list is endless almost every well known vet, ag department, or anything to do with livestock in fluence on a larger scale then your own backyard support biosecurity.

The USDA is one of the biggest Agencies with some of the strictest Biosecurity in the US.....which is why we cant import whatever animals we want into the US and all those that do get imported are put into qurantine.

 

[blackgoat]

I think it's required to get an NPIP. And, NPIP is not required to sell locally. Also, biosecurity policies don't prevent things like animals living in horrid conditions. But, anyway, all that biosecurity doesn't mean anything if you take your birds to poultry shows, or take your birds somewhere to sell them where they can have contact with people or other birds.

 

[ladycat]

I think it's required to get an NPIP. And, NPIP is not required to sell locally. Also, biosecurity policies don't prevent things like animals living in horrid conditions. But, anyway, all that biosecurity doesn't mean anything if you take your birds to poultry shows, or take your birds somewhere to sell them where they can have contact with people or other birds.

I know a lot of people who show animals (not just poultry, but also rabbits etc), either never take the animal back to the farm (i.e., sell it at the show), *or* they have a separate quarantine location to take the animal to that is removed from the farm.

It's extremely risky to bring an animal back from a show and immediately put it back into the flock/herd/whatever that it came from.

 

[farmchick897]

I guess we can agree to disagree, much like the debate on vaccinations right now... I still have my opinion and I would walk away from a sale. Frankly I think the spread of disease happens because animals are over stocked, poorly kept, unclean, etc. You have a healthy diet and environment you won't see healthy animals getting diseases brought in on people's clothes, shoes, etc...
And do you ever leave your house? Because these disease spreading people are all around you and who's to say you don't bring it back on your clothes?

 

[KYTinpusher]

I guess we can agree to disagree, much like the debate on vaccinations right now... I still have my opinion and I would walk away from a sale. Frankly I think the spread of disease happens because animals are over stocked, poorly kept, unclean, etc. You have a healthy diet and environment you won't see healthy animals getting diseases brought in on people's clothes, shoes, etc...
And do you ever leave your house? Because these disease spreading people are all around you and who's to say you don't bring it back on your clothes?

Well, with that logic, do you think it is silly to wash your hands after cleaning the coop or after using the bathroom, before you eat your dinner, too?

Biosecurity is not about eliminating the threat - the only way to do that is to live in a plastic bubble. Biosecurity is about minimizing the risk in the way that works best for each farm. I don't know what kind of environment my customers are coming from and since I don't have the funds to sanitize visitors or provide them with clean overalls and boots, I choose to not let them have access to my birds. Most of my customers are quite grateful for the measures I take to ensure the health of the birds they are buying.

 

[ladycat]

I guess we can agree to disagree, much like the debate on vaccinations right now... I still have my opinion and I would walk away from a sale. Frankly I think the spread of disease happens because animals are over stocked, poorly kept, unclean, etc. You have a healthy diet and environment you won't see healthy animals getting diseases brought in on people's clothes, shoes, etc...
And do you ever leave your house? Because these disease spreading people are all around you and who's to say you don't bring it back on your clothes?

Well, with that logic, do you think it is silly to wash your hands after cleaning the coop or after using the bathroom, before you eat your dinner, too?

The first thing I thought of...

If you live where there is a high risk of rabies from the local wildlife, do you vaccinate your dogs and cats for rabies?

No matter how clean and sanitary the facilities are, and no matter how healthy the animals are, if they get bit by a rabid animal, not only will they get rabies, they will put their humans at risk as well.

 

[blackgoat]

Well, with that logic, do you think it is silly to wash your hands after cleaning the coop or after using the bathroom, before you eat your dinner, too?

Most people, I assume, on this site are raising Backyard Chickens. I don't think that many members disinfect their clothing before feeding their chickens. Or disinfect everything that comes into their house. I understand the purpose of biosecurity, but it only works if you are super strict about it. If people aren't disinfecting everything that can possibly contaminate their coops, then claim of 'you can't come to my home because of biosecurity' doesn't hold water. If you are concerned about thieves or whatever, then that's a different argument.