Chicken Breeds Health Problems

[kwik-kwak]

In this topic I am purely referring to the ornamental breeds. What I said earlier, the agricultural sector is a completely different discussion, I wanted to leave it out of this topic.

As I mentioned earlier, I understand that different breeds are bred for different functions. I am purely concerned with the real show breeds (the double folded seramas, the crested chickens, etc.).

I do think the 'function' aspect sometimes sounds a bit like an excuse when there are also a lot of rules in the breed standard regarding appearance (unless this has a function such as camouflage).

Furthermore, you can indeed say a chicken with pain/discomfort is not useful/wanted, but if the animal stays alive that will be enough for many show breeds, the chickens cannot complain.

 

[kwik-kwak]

You're anthropomorphizing again -- assuming emotional pain associated with a lack that a chicken doesn't have the abstract thinking capability to comprehend.

yeah, no, I don't

What I'm referring to is literally suffering from physical pain, not a psychological sense of exclusion or stress (although I can't guarantee they won't suffer from that). For example, with the serama bred too small and the open skull crested chickens.

 

[YardMoa]

Furthermore, you can indeed say a chicken with pain/discomfort is not useful/wanted, but if the animal stays alive that will be enough for many show breeds, the chickens cannot complain.

A non functional animal is a non-showable animal. A bird in pain is stressed, and will not look good. It will not be able to be shown, it will not win awards, and it will likely not be breedable. Stressed hens don't lay eggs.

I'm just not sure where you're getting this idea of show chickens living in pain.

 

[kwik-kwak]

A non functional animal is a non-showable animal. A bird in pain is stressed, and will not look good. It will not be able to be shown, it will not win awards, and it will likely not be breedable. Stressed hens don't lay eggs.

I'm just not sure where you're getting this idea of show chickens living in pain.

I assumed that it is well known that animals hide pain very well from a survival instinct. In fact people do it too, I only know about people who walk around with (severe) headaches if they tell me. It sounds nice, they must be happy when they win prizes but it's not true, just look at the dog shows.

It does not have to be the case that they are chronically in pain, but the serama hens, for example, are more sensitive to developing egg bound. In addition, you can simply see from the body shape of a serama that this cannot be healthy and pleasant for an animal.

 

[3KillerBs]

What I'm referring to is literally suffering from physical pain, not a psychological sense of exclusion or stress (although I can't guarantee they won't suffer from that). For example, with the serama bred too small and the open skull crested chickens.

What evidence do you have that they are in pain?

 

[U_Stormcrow]

Because different traits suit different climates, purposes, and functions.

To take just one example, climate:

I live in an area where for several months in the summer it's common to have temperatures of 95F at 95% humidity.

Some people live in areas where daily highs stay below 0F for weeks. The same breed doesn't suit both extremes.

For every single trait a chicken might have there is a reason that people bred it that way -- even color. @U_Stormcrow is breeding free-range suited birds with color patterns that match the color of his soil for better ability to hide from predators. Just yesterday I read in a book on keeping Turkeys that before modern confinment systems, farmers who kept turkeys on range in woodland would each breed a different color so that when the turkeys were rounded up together and driven to market each farmer could identify his own birds.



You're anthropomorphizing again -- assuming emotional pain associated with a lack that a chicken doesn't have the abstract thinking capability to comprehend.

Initially, I liked this comment. Then I "informatived" this comment. now I simply Love this comment.

ALL OF THE ABOVE.

Domestication involves a bit of animal husbandry - not by every owner, or on every occasion, or with every animal - but the history of man living with animals is, in part, the choosing of animals who live well with man, and the selection of animals whose traits make them well suited for the places man chooses to live.

Where a group of animals share similar traits which breed true, we start calling that collection of common, reliably reproduceable traits within a species a "breed".

and fwiw, I'm culling my way towards a landrace. Very similar concept, somewhat different approach. Once I have a local landrace, it will be many years further before them might confidently be called a "breed".

 

[U_Stormcrow]

It does not have to be the case that they are chronically in pain, but the serama hens, for example, are more sensitive to developing egg bound. In addition, you can simply see from the body shape of a serama that this cannot be healthy and pleasant for an animal.

Curious as to what qualifies you to decide which traits - or predilections for certain conditions - are a problem to be eliminated?

Thalassemia Minor is a condition which presents as an anemia-like condition of varying severity in individuals, limiting their ability to process oxygen. Should it be eliminated from the gene pool? Nature thinks otherwise - it also provides a very minor defense against Malaria.

Myostatin-related muscular hypertrophy is the result of genetic error which causes the body not to produce enough myostatin, a muscle growth inhibitor. Thuse who suffer this disease put on muscle mass early and easily, readily exceeding the norm of the species. Appart from increased dietary needs, there don't seem to be significant downsides. Are they the "defect", or are we?

Secondary Polythycemia is a genetic error resulting in the creation of "excess" red blood cells, thickening the blood, and resuliting in a predisposition for stroke, etc. Yet it also means that the sufferers readily carry oxygen to their muscles and have incredible stamina as result...

Life is **COMPLICATED**.


Please, tell me again what qualifies you to sit in judgement, that your perspective is so much better than the rest of us???

 

[JacinLarkwell]

nice, they must be happy when they win prizes

The birds couldn't give a flying cluck about winning prizes.

 

[JacinLarkwell]

group of people who absolutely want a (sick) purebred animal,

Are you trying to say that a bird is not as healthy if it came from purebred stock?

 

[kwik-kwak]

Curious as to what qualifies you to decide which traits - or predilections for certain conditions - are a problem to be eliminated?

Thalassemia Minor is a condition which presents as an anemia-like condition of varying severity in individuals, limiting their ability to process oxygen. Should it be eliminated from the gene pool? Nature thinks otherwise - it also provides a very minor defense against Malaria.

Myostatin-related muscular hypertrophy is the result of genetic error which causes the body not to produce enough myostatin, a muscle growth inhibitor. Thuse who suffer this disease put on muscle mass early and easily, readily exceeding the norm of the species. Appart from increased dietary needs, there don't seem to be significant downsides. Are they the "defect", or are we?

Secondary Polythycemia is a genetic error resulting in the creation of "excess" red blood cells, thickening the blood, and resuliting in a predisposition for stroke, etc. Yet it also means that the sufferers readily carry oxygen to their muscles and have incredible stamina as result...

Life is **COMPLICATED**.


Please, tell me again what qualifies you to sit in judgement, that your perspective is so much better than the rest of us???

Good point. Genetics is very complex and it is indeed difficult to say which genes are right or wrong.

It is true that 'wrong' genes in nature generally disappear by themselves. The moment humans get involved, it gets more complicated because we simply don't know whether every gene is right or wrong or what the future holds. I think it is never a good idea to breed to extremes on purpose.

I do think that animal suffering is often not seen. Sometimes because they don't know it and sometimes because they consciously look away.

By the way, I don't think my judgment is better than that of others. I like to discuss, I think that can be educational for everyone. I am also prepared to change my position if I get other insights here.