Chicken Genetics

[Arielle]

A few remarks:

BBR is not a super name for the wildtype color. Because they are genetically GOLD, not always red enhanced which I would call RED like in Rhode Island Reds. Also wheaten, duckwing and brown males are the same male color, and it doesn't point to the difference with the crow winged colors that are black breasted and show "red" too. In fact all e-locus variants (wheaten,duckwing,brown,birchen,extended black) have black breasted male color.

GOLDEN is not a super name either, because it is often used as the description for heterozygous silver/gold which would be more or less brassy looking silver in appearance. I know that gold means the same as golden, but still ...

So the wildtype chicken should be called GOLD DUCKWING. We tend to do that at the-coop.org
Duckwing is a stupid name too, but at least it points to the right area of the wing that is typical.

There is no such thing as s-
Suggested notation:
s+//s+ (or s+/s+) for males,
s+/- for females.
s+/(s+) for both genders.
A slash represents a chromosome, in females the piece of chromosome where the second gene would reside is missing, hence only double slashes for the male here, which is mostly simplified as a single slash anyway.

To anyone:

THis points out a need to understand the written description of a birds phenotype. Is there a list of colors, by word and by feather color, to aid in the understanding of the preferred words used for colors?

Terminology is a tripping point in most discussions. THere needs to be a consensus on which terms and words to use; and even then, misunderstanding can still occur. Case in point is that the-coop has agreed to specific terminology in order to aid further conversation. We'll all get there together.

 

[3riverschick]

A few remarks:

BBR is not a super name for the wildtype color. Because they are genetically GOLD, not always red enhanced which I would call RED like in Rhode Island Reds. Also wheaten, duckwing and brown males are the same male color, and it doesn't point to the difference with the crow winged colors that are black breasted and show "red" too. In fact all e-locus variants (wheaten,duckwing,brown,birchen,extended black) have black breasted male color.

GOLDEN is not a super name either, because it is often used as the description for heterozygous silver/gold which would be more or less brassy looking silver in appearance. I know that gold means the same as golden, but still ...

So the wildtype chicken should be called GOLD DUCKWING. We tend to do that at the-coop.org
Duckwing is a stupid name too, but at least it points to the right area of the wing that is typical.

There is no such thing as s-
Suggested notation:
s+//s+ (or s+/s+) for males,
s+/- for females.
s+/(s+) for both genders.
A slash represents a chromosome, in females the piece of chromosome where the second gene would reside is missing, hence only double slashes for the male here, which is mostly simplified as a single slash anyway.

Yes, Henk,
I got lazy and didn't write s+/-. Sorry about that.
Best,
Karen

 

[tadkerson]

1. This is exactly why it is better to describe a bird by a genetic make up and not a phenotype.
2. You will never get a standardized nomenclature for the phenotypes because you have all the game birds with their names, the Europeans call something one thing and the Americans call it another and others may have their own names.

If people do not understand what is in a name they will have to ask.

Tim

 

[TShelton54]

Salmon is on a Wheaten base with the addition of Silver (SS) and Autosomal Phaeomelanin (ApAp)(the red over the back). Wild type base (e+e+) Silver (SS) and Autosomal phaeomelanin (ApAp) is Golden Duckwing. Tim Shelton

 

[3riverschick]

Salmon is on a Wheaten base with the addition of Silver (SS) and Autosomal Phaeomelanin (ApAp)(the red over the back). Wild type base (e+e+) Silver (SS) and Autosomal phaeomelanin (ApAp) is Golden Duckwing. Tim Shelton

Hi Tim,
I agree with you. eWh based is one kind of Salmon. The French also term their e+/e+ s+/s+ (s+/s- {females}) variety of the French Marans, a Golden Salmon.
Whether it should be termed BBR cock with the salmon-breasted, stippled hen ...well yeah, I think that is a better descriptive term for the Golden Salmon Marans...but that's not what the French decided ...so...my point was that Golden Salmon Marans were not Golden Duckwing...whether they should properly be termed Gold Duckwing is, I think, a grey area. Maybe they can be, but it is not an entirely appropriate term and leads to the confusion of novices extrapolating the term with "en" until they end up calling Golden Salmon Marans "Golden Duckwing..an entirely inappropriate term. Basically we are saying the same thing, you and I.
Best,
Karen

 

[TShelton54]

Ok, The differences for variety names in different countries can be confusing. The british call blue "dun", and this led to confusion when the american dun gene was seeking standardization. We had to use the term fawn, although I still really don't agree with it. Also there is a variety of mixed Araucanas sometimes seen where the hens are dark red wheaten in body color and silver in the neck, corrosponding males are Salmon with mahogany backs and dark straw hackles. I figure them to be Wheaten base, + silver,Ap,and mahogany, but there could be other genes involved. Tim 54

 

[3riverschick]

Ok, The differences for variety names in different countries can be confusing. Tim 54

Hi Tim,
You got that right! It's quite frustrating. Black-Tailed Buff Marans in France is called fawn.
Oh well.
Sigh,
Karen

 

[Arielle]

Standardizing terms and descriptions will never be. Just the way it is. Glad we can share and understand better.

 

[3riverschick]

Standardizing terms and descriptions will never be. Just the way it is. Glad we can share and understand better.

Hi Arielle,
Yes, just so. However, I find it much easier to learn with fewer mistakes if I have a concrete glossery I can trust to make my plans and interprete what I am learning and want to do.
Sigh,
Karen

 

[Arielle]

Quote: Karen, even with glossaries I have repeatedly seen how in application, terms are subject to human interpretation. Makes it harder for new people to fully understand the current situation and how to fix, or maintain.