Chicken having breathing problems

[Chicks Galore3]

My BO Daffodil was standing right in front of the coop door (As usual)vand was all puffed up. This doesn't concern me because everybody is trying to keep warm. However, whenever she would exhale she would stick out her neck and open her mouth. If you held her close she sounds a tad like Darth Vader. Is there something wrong with her? She is one of my favorites. Could the cold be getting to her? They are in a well ventilated, draft, free coop. No heatlamp It's 12 degree, feels like -8. It has been colder.

 

[chooks4life]

Sounds bad, whatever it is. Since she's ruffled up too, not just gasping or wheezing or gurgling or whatever, I dare say it's an illness not an accidentally inhaled seed husk or piece of grass for example. But I may be wrong.

Is she eating normally? Does she seem hurt at all or is it just the breathing issue?

Personally I'd be giving her raw freshly minced garlic in something like hard boiled egg to support her and probably hydrogen peroxide in the water to flush out any deep respiratory infections, but there's no reason you can't do that alongside an artificial antibiotic too, if you think it is necessary.

Best wishes.

 

[Chicks Galore3]

Thank you,chooks4life. I separated Daffodil from the others and she is still alive, but alt breathing funky. She is eating and drinking and willingly eats the garlic. At first she had problems pooping but now shareable to do that. Sometimes her breathing is fine and she acts normally and sometimes she sits down and breathes really squeakily. It seems if she gets excited,that is when her breathing acts up. For example,two days ago she was looking a lot better so I let her out to roam the barn for a little bit while I tidied her pen. She enjoyed that! However another chicken into the barn and Daffodil completely flipped out and attacked her. Her breathing really was heavy and raspy after that. I'm not sure what to do or what's wrong.

 

[azygous]

My experience with chickens with breathing difficulties has been very, very bad. Unless there's a discharge of mucous, you probably can rule out an infection. You don't state Daffodil's age. Sometimes older chickens succumb to cancer, where tumors grow in the organs, eventually making breathing difficulties obvious.

After I got a necropsy done on the third chicken to die this way, I learned the flock is carrying the avian leukosis virus, something similar to Marek's.

So, it doesn't bode well for Daffodil, although she may improve and behave pretty much normally before she dies, if that's the direction it's going for her.

If she does die, I highly recommend getting a necropsy so you will know how the rest of the flock could be affected, and maybe there's something you can do to prevent them getting sick, too. it's very important to freeze or chill the body until you can get it to a lab. It's relatively inexpensive.

 

[Chicks Galore3]

She will be 3 in April and never has been the healthiest chicken.

 

[chooks4life]

'Never been the healthiest chicken' does sound like maybe your flock is carrying something (almost all flocks are anyway) and this is merely the most susceptible bird you have. Some diseases are only obvious by the 'tail', of birds or animals ranging in condition from great to poor. The longer the range, i.e. the longer the tail, the more likely it is you have chronic disease.

To me, going from the symptoms you described, it sounds like progressive respiratory disease and whatever its cause, she will need help to survive, if you're not the 'cull and replace' type that is. (Not judging you if you are, just discussing possibilities). Even with help, birds with respiratory disease are still high risk cases. Hydrogen peroxide is very, very helpful in shifting deep seated and aggressive respiratory infections, I can't recommend it highly enough for that. It's saved my life and the lives of some of my animals.

I agisted my chooks and they came back with two hens with respiratory disease. So far, I've not found any real issues with it --- but my experience is certainly not the standard in that area! Most people do find it a terrible situation. (My two obvious respiratory-infection 'patients' both responded immediately to hydrogen peroxide. Doesn't mean they're not carriers, though, to err on the side of caution I assume they are).

Respiratory disease in chickens, or any birds really, is pretty much as a rule serious indeed. Here's a few potential causes:
Quote:
Sometimes it's something as mild as having inhaled a seed husk (which can still kill them over time as infection develops) and sometimes it's a worst case scenario, a seriously contagious and virulent disease.

I'm a big fan of breeding for resistance myself, but that's not for everyone. Certainly not ideal for the average flock keeper, it's a long term commitment and (if social responsibility matters to you and you interpret the meaning the same way I do) you won't be able to sell your birds on to anyone whose flock doesn't currently have the diseases yours carry, preferably the same strains too, and you have to be aware of biosecurity for the sake of others. (So no going and visiting other people with flocks while wearing the same shoes and clothes you just used on your own property, for example).

According to the best estimates I've read, most non-commercial flocks carry a minimum of one, but often multiple, serious diseases to which they are resistant and while they often show no symptoms of what they carry it can wipe out susceptible flocks.

Experts in the field reckon that if your flock hasn't tested free of Avian Leukosis Virus and Mareks' for example, two serious and very common diseases, you should assume you have them --- because chances are, you do.

Despite the seriousness of many diseases and their ability to wipe out susceptible individuals anywhere they encounter them, overall population losses are quite minor, as most birds are already resistant. Studies done as far back as the 1960's showed it's very easy and rapidly achievable to breed for resistance --- or susceptibility. Unfortunately many people do the latter. While I did eradicate the most susceptible lines I carried, I have also found it's very easy to breed for resistance.

None of this is intended to make you take your bird's illness less seriously obviously, just to lessen any potential doomsday perception which I feel is unwarranted, as serious as the situation may be. Some people find the inevitable discussion of permanent disease carrier status very depressing, distressing or disheartening, but the reality of it is that it's the norm, not the exception. Most people just don't know it, is all.

If I had a dollar for every chook that 'died of old age' while still young, I'd be a billionaire, and that's no exaggeration.

Many people swear black and blue their flocks have never had disease issues --- and come up with interesting reasons for every loss they've ever had. Many people plain don't want to know, and those are the biggest vectors of disease there are.

Anyway, if you want to get them tested, that's the best way to be sure.

Good luck and best wishes.

 

[Chicks Galore3]

Let me explain the "never been the healthiest chicken" thing. She was slow developing, slow minded, and just very different from the rest of my chickens. Fragile but spunky.I'm not sure how to explain it. My chickens have had Cocci once, and mites twice. Daffodil always gets hits the hardest. Awhile ago she dropped A LOT of weight and her feathers were all ratty and she often lost her balance/looked like she was going to tip over though she acted like nothing was wrong. None of the other chickens showed any signs of anything being wrong. Eventually she gained back her weight and looks very healthy now, even though she's still a little tipsy. What you said makes a lot of sense. I haven't had my chickens tested for anything, and am not sure how to go about doing it. Can you explain how you use hydrogen peroxide? Nope, not a cull and replace person. I am willing to do just about anything for her.

 

[chooks4life]

Let me explain the "never been the healthiest chicken" thing. She was slow developing, slow minded, and just very different from the rest of my chickens. Fragile but spunky.I'm not sure how to explain it.

No need to explain it any further; I have had some like that too. But most neurological diseases have very similar symptoms so without testing it's all just guessing of course.

Mostly with my birds with similar symptoms to yours, they turned out to have Avian Leukosis Virus, and they were just the most susceptible of their family line. My experiences with that disease led to me culling out the carriers despite them not being affected; it's a brutal one to try to do battle with, one of the worst case scenarios --- IF you have susceptible individuals, that is. If not, it's not a worry.

I also had a similar but different problem in the Isabrowns I got, everyone I knew around that time and in that region that owned Isabrowns had the same issue. Progressive neurological symptoms beginning after two years of age, including brain damage in all and paralysis in some, some recovered for a while, others died outright. Long term none survived, though. Definitely something specific to them alone, not sure what but I suspect genetics are at fault. After all there's a lot of late onset diseases and if you're culling all hens at two years or so of age as is the case with most Isabrowns, you just don't know what they're carrying that kicks in after that age.

My chickens have had Cocci once, and mites twice. Daffodil always gets hits the hardest. Awhile ago she dropped A LOT of weight and her feathers were all ratty and she often lost her balance/looked like she was going to tip over though she acted like nothing was wrong. None of the other chickens showed any signs of anything being wrong. Eventually she gained back her weight and looks very healthy now, even though she's still a little tipsy. What you said makes a lot of sense.

Many of the most serious problems are cyclic in nature like you've described, but guessing is of limited worth. Testing would be helpful if you're able to get it done.

I have had acute ALV and chronic ALV in my flock; in the first case, they died before reproductive age, and it was only white feathered, blue/purple skinned Silkie-mix-phenotype females of a certain cross between two unrelated parents. (Pullets generally are more susceptible to both ALV and Marek's, it would appear that these are viruses that favor estrogen rich environments). Neither of those parents produced active ALV in any other offspring with any other mate or in offspring of any other phenotype. Both parents were complete mutts of extremely mixed parentage themselves. Prime example of how out of the blue it can strike and how randomly too, none of the others were affected... Except some chooks from another source, the chronic ALV cases.

In the chronic ALV cases, they looked fine for their first year, then had episodes like what you describe minus the respiratory symptoms, then recovered, then later on had more episodes, then began the slow final espisode from which they did not recover. I performed home necropsies on them and internally they were a mass of cancer. Most of their bodyweight was cancer, riddling the gastrointestinal tract. They really suffered before they died. After seeing this I began culling aggressively against it.

In this case they were Australorps from a breeder, ostensibly purebreds though I have my doubts as some looked crossed with BOs which the breeder also kept, but their mongrel offspring regularly had the same issue --- again, in female offspring only; not all daughters, granddaughters or great-granddaughters were affected, but enough of them for me to cull out those lines again. If you've bred from your unwell hen I would watch her offspring and future generations of descendents closely.

If it's ALV, the best choice is to remove the family line but if you are game to try and treat (which may be a long haul and unfruitful) you could consider trying Hypericum Perforatum aka St John's Wort, or any other anti cancer/anti neurological disease treatment you think may work.

I don't know that your chook has ALV or Marek's obviously, but neurological symptoms are quite serious and those are two of the commonest causes (alongside lead toxicity which is also very common) --- and whatever the cause neurological damage tends to respond to the same treatments. Neurological damage, whatever the cause, makes the bird more susceptible to just about everything too, including Chronic Respiratory Disease, but as azygous suggested, it may be cancer producing mock CRD symptoms. Either way I would treat both, personally.

Only other option with ALV is to cull the bird humanely once its condition progresses. The same is true of Chronic Respiratory Disease, if going by the books that is. If I'd known back then what I know about St John's Wort now, I would have tried it. If I find I have Marek's or ALV in future, I will test it. Even on Isabrowns, lol, though I intend to never keep them again. Too much wrong with them.

Here's some general info on it, research testing it against cancers, viruses, and so forth:
Quote:

There's a thread on this forum called 'St John's Wort' and it contains the experiences of people testing it against Marek's. Unfortunately it's a long read with a lot of useless posts in it, lol. Some people apparently took offense at the notion of it being suggested to be a workable treatment and began challenging it and anyone who tried to share their experiences, and some other people (myself included) took the defensive line against that, because seriously, people have to be free to share experiences without being challenged to provide proof and citations like this is some scientific peer review process rather than ordinary chook owners trying to find something to save their birds. It got silly for a bit there in the end of the thread, lol.

In short, in some cases it works, in others not, in some cases they used the homeopathic remedy, in others liquid extract or pill form, in some cases Marek's was verified by testing done by professionals, in others it was just neurological symptoms in general that they thought were Mareks' and was never verified one way or another... Either way it's the closest shot at the moment in terms of treating it and other cancers and viruses of its type with any degree of success.

I haven't had my chickens tested for anything, and am not sure how to go about doing it.

Well, that one depends a fair bit on your local situation. You may have avian vets or labs nearby that are sufficiently equipped both in technology and knowledge to be able to help you. Some state labs will help for free in the interests of keeping an eye on what diseases are present in the state, but they generally want a dead bird to test and will want the bird sacrificed if it's not already dead, so that might not work for you.

Some vet labs will want the bird dead too, to tell you in retrospect what was wrong but that is obviously not an option here. Otherwise you can send samples of the bird, like stool, feathers, etc to some labs to get tests run. Some may want some blood or a tissue biopsy.

I've not done this yet but know a few people on this forum that do it regularly and it's a valuable resource becoming more and more available so in future I hope to use it when in doubt as well.

Testing for various things generally starts around $40 for a multi test and upwards but it does depend on the lab.

A vet might be able to point you in the direction to obtain answers, or help you get answers, otherwise Casportpony is one user to PM to ask, because she's pretty familiar with all this. She is, however, one of the people that's pretty anti SJW or Hypericum Perforatum.

As a side note, some diseases are notifiable and can result in the destruction of your flock if you're known to have them.

Can you explain how you use hydrogen peroxide? Nope, not a cull and replace person. I am willing to do just about anything for her.

Hydrogen peroxide needs to be diluted (very few undiluted sources sold anyway, chances are it's diluted) and you only need a little, a couple of drops into a waterbowl of up to 10 liters will do a whole flock. No exact amount needed, you can start with one to three drops and see how you go, and up the dose if it isn't doing it (though it always has for me).

Some respond very quickly, one dose being sufficient, whereas others need follow up doses for a while to clear up completely. Depends on the depth and severity of the infection, and the aggressiveness of the infective agent, as well as the strength of the individual's immune system, which in this case does not sound strong at all.

HP also needs to be of a non-additive brand; some brands add toxins to prevent people using them orally or for any purpose other than intended. So if the ingredients state anything other than Hydrogen Peroxide and water, don't use it.

I dose them all to get to the affected chooks because they're drinking from the same waterbowls anyway and have been from before I knew this issue was in the flock, and despite their apparent health there's a chance the others have it too. It won't hurt those that don't need it anyway, it can help their overall health.

I use stainless steel waterbowls (real stainless, not crap quality) so there's no leaching of chemicals from plastic which HP could exacerbate. So many plastics used for animal and human feeding are not even food grade, you hear of cats having allergic reactions to red plastics and so forth, and even food grade plastics are still unhealthy to use.

It's unacceptable but we must take care because manufacturers too often don't care, never mind take care, lol.

Alternatively you can drop some straight into her mouth if it's diluted to about 10 per cent or less, but easier to just add it to the water. It can be fizzy on the tongue and throat which she may dislike. I know I don't like it, lol. But a course of it did save my life.

Bit long winded but there's a lot to take into account. Hope this helps.

Best wishes.

 

[Chicks Galore3]

Wow, that's a lot for my brain to digest! What you said about your ISAbrowns made me curious. I have (Er, had.) 4 Gold Stars who died a month or two right after each other, starting around 1 1/2 years old. No apparent reason, they got lethargic and raspy breathing, and died within 24 hours. 1 had a gimpy foot from about 4 months old. Except 1, who is almost 3 and is fit as a fiddle. She looks different from her sisters - way bigger and hardier. My chickens have had one or two "phases" where everybody gets ratty feathers and their head feathers fall out. It usually happens during the winter. They were doing good so far this winter but one of my BSL (from a different seller then my gold stars and daffodil) is showing a hint of rattiness. No signs of picking or pecking - I culled the bullies and gave them an omega-3 supplement that has been doing wonders on their health. Wondered if this has any connection. I'll have to check into testing.

 

[chooks4life]

Wow, that's a lot for my brain to digest!

Yeah, I know lol, when I come across a mother lode of info I save it and read through it a few times, let it soak in.

What you said about your ISAbrowns made me curious. I have (Er, had.) 4 Gold Stars who died a month or two right after each other, starting around 1 1/2 years old. No apparent reason, they got lethargic and raspy breathing, and died within 24 hours. 1 had a gimpy foot from about 4 months old. Except 1, who is almost 3 and is fit as a fiddle. She looks different from her sisters - way bigger and hardier.

Interesting. We had one Isabrown hen that was crushed by a horse, total mess physically but didn't die from it, and she outlived the other Isabrowns, surviving her first bout with the disease that ultimately took all my remaining Isabrowns, whereas her sisters that never suffered prior illness or injury went down hard and fast and died the first bout. She too had a gimpy leg, from being stomped by the horse. Never seen that disease before or since, only in Isabrowns a bit older than the usual cull-by date/age.

She wasn't a Gold Star, for sure, but in general I have a sour view on commercial layers, because in my experience they all suffer from very similar health issues, they're riddled with them compared to other breeds, and longevity is almost an oxymoron with them.

My chickens have had one or two "phases" where everybody gets ratty feathers and their head feathers fall out. It usually happens during the winter. They were doing good so far this winter but one of my BSL (from a different seller then my gold stars and daffodil) is showing a hint of rattiness. No signs of picking or pecking - I culled the bullies and gave them an omega-3 supplement that has been doing wonders on their health. Wondered if this has any connection. I'll have to check into testing.

Are you sure it's not partial moulting? Some hens have a very skewed interpretation of moulting, especially those breeds developed to not moult until they're due to be culled.

Best wishes.