Chicken keeping without coops or with mutiple coops

[LittleMissCountry]

My husband's grandma had a situation much like you described. They didn't have much money, and lived on a pig farm. They had 30 chickens, give or take, at any one time. The chickenz were completely free range with no coop. They would roost in trees or in the barn or outbuildings. They fed them scraps from the garden and grew grains for them. They butchered the chickens for food and collected eggs each day for breakfast, or for cooking. They didn't worry about finding hidden nests, and those eggs hatched out to keep the flock going. They never bought chickens after that. I am sure some were lost to predators but they were not pets, and as long as they had enough to live on, they didn't worry about it. They also had a dog, though, that would protect livestock. My husband did a lot of egg collecting growing up. He actually laughed at me the first time I talked to him about what I had learned about chickens in my research, because it was the exact opposite of his experience growing up.
However, it is a big difference having 30 chickens as a food source when you are constantly having chicks hatch versus having four chickens in your backyard with neighbors not too far away.

 

[Peppercorngal]

My husband's grandma had a situation much like you described. They didn't have much money, and lived on a pig farm. They had 30 chickens, give or take, at any one time. The chickenz were completely free range with no coop. They would roost in trees or in the barn or outbuildings. They fed them scraps from the garden and grew grains for them. They butchered the chickens for food and collected eggs each day for breakfast, or for cooking. They didn't worry about finding hidden nests, and those eggs hatched out to keep the flock going. They never bought chickens after that. I am sure some were lost to predators but they were not pets, and as long as they had enough to live on, they didn't worry about it. They also had a dog, though, that would protect livestock. My husband did a lot of egg collecting growing up. He actually laughed at me the first time I talked to him about what I had learned about chickens in my research, because it was the exact opposite of his experience growing up.
However, it is a big difference having 30 chickens as a food source when you are constantly having chicks hatch versus having four chickens in your backyard with neighbors not too far away.

Yes, my Grandfather's farm had the same setup. It was a dairy farm with a few pigs, "wild" chickens, and the feral cats that were unavoidable. They grew alfalfa for the cows and everything else got the "slop". Chickens lived in the trees, or the barn, free ranged and seemed to do just fine. I remember his setup from my childhood. Looking for the eggs, chasing the cats away, and feeding the calves! I fell in love with this life even then!

 

[Shadrach]

2) One cock for every 3 to 5 hens

For the following to make sense you need to know that:
all the chickens here are free range but most sleep in coops,
there have been a maximum of five tribes/social groups here and currently there are three,
each tribe has it’s own coop or coops
each tribe comprises one senior cock and one senior hen. Each tribe may have junior cocks which are the progeny of the senior cock and a hen from his tribe, not necessarily the senior hen and up to five hens and assorted chicks.

The book is based around observations gathered over seven years of observing these chickens and keeping records of notable events. These observations have been turned into stories, some specific to an individual, some specific to a tribe and some ‘imaginative’ stories based around how I see the differing personalities of the characters.

The ‘evidence’ for my conclusions at the end of the book rely on the preceding stories.
It’s not possible to condense a book for a forum page or two, so below is the very briefest of a summary in an attempt to answer your questions in a reasonably comprehensive manner.


The Role of the Cock.
Most of the studies I’ve read have been mainly concerned with the hen; she is the one that produces the eggs so this isn’t really surprising. I’ve found relatively little information on the role of the cock. Many people who keep chickens are unable, or reluctant to keep a cock. There are fertility problems, cocks are noisy, there is an unwarranted view in my opinion, that many are aggressive, so there isn’t even the same volume of anecdotal evidence as there is for hens.

The most obvious role of the cock is to fertilise the hens eggs and a cock in its prime can ‘service’ a large number of hens and many people who keep chickens don’t look at the cocks role any further.

The cock also receives recognition as a protector of hens; this is a bit more interesting.
There is lots of anecdotal evidence of cocks fighting each other and this is usually taken to be over access to females so a cock ‘protects’ his hens from other cocks to ensure his genes get passed on it’s reasonable to assume.

I’ve only known of one cock here who may have actually attacked a predator in an attempt to protect a hen and what makes this slightly different, her chicks; he died.

Given the majority of predators are better equipped at attacking than a cock is at defending if every cock laid his life on the line in event of a predator attack, given the ratio of cocks to hens normally kept, there wouldn’t be many cocks left rather rapidly.

What the cock does is keep watch while the hens eat and when he sees a predator (the hens are too busy stuffing their faces; okay, they’ve got eggs to make) he gives a warning sound. Interestingly it’s not the sound many think it is.

Both the predator warning sounds I’ve heard are very quiet, it’s only when the hens are running or crouching that he makes all that noise. Some studies I’ve read disagree with this but I’ve heard these warning calls so often now.

Bear in mind the cock doesn’t want to die and he runs for cover as soon as he’s made the call along with his hens. Any loud call is likely to divert a predators attention to the cock.

I’ve identified 3 warning calls, one for a ground predator, one for an air born predator and another for everything else that isn’t from his social group. I’m going to call this social group a tribe from here on. I’ll try to explain why further on.

The cock isn’t in the ‘pecking order’, it’s a hen thing. What the cocks role is regarding the pecking order is to stop the fights between hens in his own tribe from getting too serious. He shouts at them if they’re bickering and if problems continue and a fight develops he breaks it up; if he can. I’ve seen a senior hen having a fight with a junior hen who had been harassing her for some weeks and when the cock went to break the fight up the senior hen took him on as well.

When it comes to other cocks, including his male progeny he will either fight or run.

With the cocks here, they are all different, we often get a dominant cock, or a bully if you like.

He’ll pick on more junior ,or more timid cocks from other tribes. From what I’ve seen the bully isn’t interested in the other cocks hens, it’s usually about access to food, best shelter and plain ego.

One of the Bantam cocks here got bullied mercilessly by a cross breed cock who was about three times his weight and the hens in the Bantam cock’s tribe stuck with him. Eventually the bully took on another cock from another tribe and lost the fight; he’s been better behaved since.

It’s when it comes to egg laying that a good cock becomes invaluable. You need to assume that there are no established nesting/egg laying sites for the hen in question. Once a site is established the behaviour changes. You also need to accept that each tribe moves as a group with the cock in sight of all the hens. It’s dangerous for a hen that gets separated from the group and the hens know this. The only time a hen leaves the group deliberately (there are exceptions) is when she goes to lay an egg, or sit on a clutch.

This is what happens here, with all the cocks and hens who belong to a tribe.

The hen lets the cock know she wants to lay an egg. I don’t know how this is done but I believe it may be a combination of body language and chemical excretion.

The cock tries to move the tribe to a place of safety.

Meanwhile the hen often starts to make the escort call which is the sound many people associate with a hen wanting to lay an egg; it isn’t, it’s an escort call. (better explanation later)

The hen and the cock leave the tribe and go to look for a suitable egg laying site. This can take hours. I’ve watched hens go from one site to another and then back again. Often the cock will suggest a site. He gets into position and scratches the ground and makes a range of sounds from a coo cooing sound to a screech. Sometimes the hen will try out the site for a while and then change her mind and they start again. I’ve seen a cock hustle a hen off a site, I assume because he didn’t consider it safe enough. Eventually a site gets chosen and the hen settles to lay the egg. Depending on the demands form the tribe ( other escort calls from hens wanting to lay an egg, a predator attack, a hen who has wandered and can’t find the tribe, a hen who has finished laying and wants an escort back to the tribe) the cock may wait for the hen in that locality, or return to the tribe.

Sometimes the hen leaves choosing a site too late and gets caught short and has to lay where she is.
In this case the cock sits on top of the hen to protect her while she lays the egg.
Once the hen has finished laying the egg she calls for the cock to escort her back to the tribe if she can’t see him.

This is the call that some people (I read it on BYC a couple of times years ago) take to be the delight of the hen in laying an egg. It isn’t, it’s an escort call. It doesn’t seem to matter what the cock to hen arrangement is, or even if there is a cock to call, all hens make it. (there are exceptions)

If one thinks for a moment about the dangers involved when a hen lays an egg in a free range ,or natural environment the above makes sense. To advertise the fact that she is going to be sitting in a particular place, unprotected while she lays an egg is suicidal in the wild. Ground predators in particular watch where hens go to lay eggs and ambush them. I’ve lost a number of hens who have made the escort call but the cock has been unresponsive for some reason and they’ve moved form the designated site and the cock, when he got around to responding can’t find the hen.

The best cocks respond instantly; they fly to the nest site making I’ve heard you and I’m on my way calls.

A cock can’t do this for thirty hens, he would die of exhaustion the first day and that is why 3 to 5 hens per cock is the natural order. If you force a different arrangement then the system breaks down.

It’s exactly the same for humans. You can force groups of diverse people/strangers to live together and mostly they’ll cope but give them a choice and the arrangements change.

That’s the brief version.

 

[Shadrach]

This is Notch protecting his sister Fray as she lays an egg.
Fray and Notch (Tribe3) had gone to find a new egg laying site. They had been to various possible sites and Fray hadn’t settled at any and finally decided that Tribe1’s coop was her best option.
Notch had taken Fray in and seen her settled and returned to the rest of his tribe.
Fat Bird who is the most senior hen in Tribe1 had seen Fray go into the coop and when Notch had left went in and chased Fray out. Fray called Notch and they tried again. Once again when Notch had gone back to the rest of the tribe Fat Bird chased Fray out and this time she stood guard at the coop door.
Fray called Notch back yet again and Notch quite wisely didn’t force the issue and he and Fray went to look elsewhere.
This had all taken some time and Fray couldn’t wait any longer and picked this spot in some long grass.

This is Cillin (Tribe1) protecting Ruffles as she lays an egg in the nest box in my house. Ruffles had laid eggs here before but since then had hatched two chicks Tarn and Mel. Ruffles spent an unusually long time (about 2 months) caring for her chicks and Mel was still very mummyish when Ruffles started to lay eggs again. Mel is Cillin’s daughter.

 

[Shadrach]

While I like the chickens having the freedom of un-cooped and multiple coop existence intellectually, there are some terrible disadvantages which despite my conviction that giving the chickens the maximum freedom possible is best for them can still bring me to tears. The death rate is horrific.

I appreciate that the chickens ancestors the guinea fowl survive in similar circumstances and the reason chickens lay so many eggs is because not many chicks survive but finding a chicken you watched hatch, had feeding out of your hand, grow up and take it’s place in the tribe and even worse, survive into adulthood and get killed by a hawk that just rips out some of the internal organs and leaves the rest lying on the ground in a bloody pile of flesh and feathers for you to find is hard on the heart.

Strangely, I find losing chicks much easier to cope with. I’ve come to accept that on average half to two thirds of the chicks hatched here wont make adulthood. When the mother stops mothering the chicks is one point of relief; you know at least she wont die trying to protect them.

The next critical stage seems to be the first few weeks after the mother stops caring for the chicks. The chicks run about the place exploring, dodging the grumpy adults, returning to the best places for food that mum showed them and generally having a ball, but they haven’t quite learnt to keep close to the tribe and to accept the occasional pecks they’ll receive from the adults.

Then the chicks see one of their brothers or sisters get killed by a predator and life changes. For a couple of days they are cautious of everything and this caution often kills more of their siblings because when the tribe moves on they often stay hidden and don’t follow and another gets killed.

It takes about three months for the chicks to learn to stick close to the tribe and dodge around the grumpy adults, but stay close.

At three months the chicks are still small enough for the falcons, weasels, Faginas and some of the smaller hawks here to not think twice about attacking if they see one alone. It’s not until they’re fully grown that the risk factor for the predator increases and I often see a hawk turn away mid flight path because the chicken is just to big to be an easy kill.

I bury the dead chickens that I find, fortunately I don’t find the bodies of the chicks that often.

 

[Mrs. K]

Very interesting observations. I enjoyed your insight and experience, Shadrach.

Another aspect to this discussion, my husband was quite emphatic about having a coup, his parents had a coup, but his grandparents did not. What DH hated, was when the birds roosted anywhere they wanted, often it was in the rafters of the buildings, and therefore pooped on machinery and saddles, which my DH hated.

Mrs K

 

[Shadrach]

Thank you Mrs. K. It's kind of you to say so.
I can empathise with your husbands point of view. Some days I feel like I was born with a mop in one hand and tissue in the other.
Letting the chickens into the house has some unforseen social complications; telling your guests to mind the chicken shit on the floor and not to touch the hen in the box next to the arm chair isn't quite the same as offering them a beer.

You may like the stories I've posted:
https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/shadrachs-stories.1263724/

 

[Shadrach]

Being prepared to let the chickens choose who they live with and if you want them to sleep in coops at night, means of course you need enough coops.

There was a garden shed used for a coop when I arrived here; it was a nightmare. Tongue and groove sheds are impossible to keep clean. I don’t mean clean as in look clean, I mean clean as in no mites. The shed had a planked floor. You can’t get chicken shit out of the gaps between the planks.

I build coops with sheets of plywood now and if they need a frame, I build it on the outside so that there are fewer seams and end grain for the mites to live in. They are also much easier to clean.

I build the coops so they are off the ground at least enough for a chicken to walk under. This provides shelter from the elements and discourages rats from entering the coops.

Chickens like to sleep off the ground and the Bantams here in particular, like to be as high off the ground as you can practically cope with.

All the more recently built coops have a gap below the roof and openings close to the floor. This encourages convection and drags cool air in at floor level.

On the green coop in the pictures you may notice the small squares of translucent plastic. Mites don’t like light and the ends of the perches are behind these plastic squares. So far the perch ends of the two green coops haven’t had mites on the perch end-grain.

This is Tribe 3’s home.

Tribe 3 had four members until a few months ago when the cock of Tribe 4 had a heart attack and left three hens unprotected. Within two days one of the hens was killed by a hawk returning from laying an egg and she died because there was no cock to escort her back to the tribe. The other two hens, Myth and Donk joined Tribe 3.

This is Tribe 3.

In the pictures of Tribe 3.
Notch (cock) son of Dink, grandson of Cheepy.
Donk, black and white speckled hen, daughter of Dink, granddaughter of Cheepy. Maran cross two generations on.
Gedit, large grey hen, daughter of Mini Minx, bantam and Maran cross.
Dink, white and slender, daughter of Cheepy, only survivor out of ten siblings. Maran cross
Fray, off white with no tail feathers (weasel got her a few days ago) daughter of Dink, granddaughter of Cheepy. Maran cross two generations.
Knock, small brown pullet, daughter of Donk, granddaughter of Dink, great granddaughter of Cheepy. Maran cross three generations
Myth, small grey, daughter of Mini Minx

 

[Susan12]

We had decent luck with free ranging ducks but we had several dogs outside.

 

[townchicks]

This is very interesting, I look forward to your book when it is finished. Any insights into chicken behavior is always welcome. However, IMO, just because something "has been done this way for generations" doesn't make it the right way to do things. So many factors are different in these times, and while I do believe that we can learn from and appreciate the old ways, I do not believe that it worked just fine, even back then. I think they sort of got away with it, instead.Generations of family farms raised chickens that way, sure, but predation was always a problem, so much so that ALL predators were shot on sight, communities often hired special "critter getters" to clear the area of wolves, coyotes, bears, etc to the point that they were completely wiped out in many parts of the country. This hunting pressure also made animals very wary of humans, so many avoided any human settlement. Nowadays, we know that this is not good for the prey animals and the overall ecology. Additionally, people are rapidly spreading into areas that once were the territory exclusively of wildlife, and they have nowhere else to move to.We also need to take into account that while there may not have been a purpose built coop, most farms had barns and other sheds, etc that the chickens sheltered in. Those free range birds also had the opportunity to breed prolifically, and most were eaten as soon as they were no longer pulling their own weight.So losses were part of the equation. I read a book, "Why Did The Chicken Cross The World? ", that discusses the original jungle fowl that were the progenitors of our modern chickens, and how extremely flighty they were, so much so that seeing one in the wild is an extreme rarity, and captive birds often kill themselves in attempts to escape at the approach of their keepers. Thus they survived roosting in trees and living in a world where everything eats them. Our modern day chickens have been bred for hundreds of generations to get that instinct out of them, so it would be convenient for the farmer to gather eggs, and catch them. To throw them back into survival mode, with out taking into account how we humans have modified them, is not, IMO, the right thing for the birds.