Chicken keeping without coops or with mutiple coops

[Shadrach]

We have had chickens for 10 years with no coop or run.

I’d like to state, that we never meant to have chickens, they just showed up here lol.

We live in a county island on 2 1/2 acre properties with horse privileges. About 1/3 of the families in the neighborhood have chickens and or horses.

Our chicken venture started with a neighbors hen going broody and hatching baby chicks in our hedges. Since then we have had chickens! Over the years I’ve had to rehome many roosters, and actually have made a decision to have no roosters.

The chickens at my best guess are Easter eggers and mutts - lots of smaller red chickens, many have green legs. They roost in our tree at night. I feed them everyday when I feed the horses, they see me and come running.

They free range all over grass pastures, horse stalls and horse barn. They lay brown, green and white eggs. Finding the eggs is an Easter egg hunt, normally they are in the corner of a horse stall or in the hay stack.

We don’t have any predators here except neighborhood dogs - which none are free roaming and all are in fenced yards. Of course, over the years we have had a few incidents with a neighbors dog getting out and we have lost a few chickens here and there.

I’ve never had any sick chickens or dealt with any disease. I’ve only seen mites once, and it was an awful experience

We have bulldogs, but they are fenced separately in our backyard with a short decorative 4’ fence. Some of the chickens use to get in our back yard, only to be chased by our dogs so they learn quick not to go over and into our backyard.

We’ve never had our dogs kill a chicken, although our brindle did bring one in the house through the doggie door! Quite a surprise, and glad we were home. The chicken believe it or not was unhurt, just shaken up and missing a few feathers. Needless to say, chickens are pretty smart and we haven’t had one in the backyard for years.

If you were considering keeping chickens loose like we have, and the roost in trees, I think you are better off with chickens that can fly well and are a little flighty.

FYI, our weather is very mild in the winter, rarely rains, only freezes a few times, but is HOT in the summer.

We haven’t had a rooster in years, and we are down to 2 old hens now. I just decided a month ago to cull the old hens and start with a new flock. I did build a coop (because I wanted Silkies) so waiting to see how this venture goes with the new breeds.

I didn't intend to have chickens either I don't agree with keeping animals fundamental. However, there were chickens here when I got here and I became fascinated by their behaviour and concerned for their welfare. It's hard to tell who's keeping who now.

 

[True Patriot]

You originally intended to gather information for your writing. It seems that you've stimulated quite a good discussion. From the information I've gathered your goal appears to be "What's best for the chicken?" Am I correct in this assumption. Then what actually is "best" for modern breeds? Would the intensive purpose directed breeding thrive if left to their own? Would it take generations to get back to their roots of survival instinct? And I do agree that breeding has been tailored to suit human design. As I seriously doubt a breed like Cornish cross would exist without intervention. But... Since these breeds are what they are now. Thriving in captive conditions, and providing what is desired of them. Could it not be argued that this is what is best for them. Since a good portion of their natural ability to forage and avoid predation had been bred out in favor of other traits. Are "we" now not responsible for seeing to the well being.

I post this not as argument to your point of view. I find your discussion fascinating and enjoy seeing different angles on the subject. In no way is this intended to offend.

 

[Shadrach]

I was getting round to answering your first post True Patriot.
I'll try and cover both when I've dealt with the mum here who has got her 4 day old chick in with the sheep!

 

[BoyTheRooster]

We have a coop, but almost all of our chickens roost in a large old plum tree in their run, unless the weather is really bad. Then they retreat to the coop for more shelter
Living in New Zealand means we don't have to worry about extreme weather or predators as much as other countries. We've been living at our current place for 13 years and predators have never killed any of our birds, even when they were fully free ranging (they're not allowed to fully free range now because they ruined the garden and had to many babies)

If you live in a temperate climate and have a low predator risk then you might not need a coop. But if you don't have a coop you must have a lot of trees for the chickens to roost in and hide under. Actually, lots of trees and bushes are good for chickens anyway, even if you have a coop

 

[Perris]

I have enjoyed reading your posts @Shadrach and found them very interesting.

FYI, I had a flock of 3 SFH and 3 CCL free ranging dawn till dusk in a large garden (2/3 acre grass shrubs $ trees). They were different ages and kept themselves to themselves most of the time. One of the SFHs started roosting in one of the trees when she was about 10 months old. All the rest copied her. They all roosted in the same tree (a conifer), and I thought it was great, till a fox took 3 of them from the tree (turns out they were roosting too low). A goshawk got another. The others were got by the fox when they came down in the morning. All within about 6 weeks.

My new flock consists of 2 SFH (one a cock), 2 Araucanas, 2 Norfolk greys and 1 RIR (were 2, 1 died), all slightly different ages but all less than a year old. I choose heritage breeds in the hope they do better free ranging. But I won't let these roost in trees - so far none has tried, although 3 at different times have got accidentally shut out and survived the night elsewhere (and made sure they got in the coop before I shut it thereafter!). I don't see an issue between breeds though the SFHs and the NGs do stick together more than the others. One of the Araucanas is the boss hen, though physically she is smaller than all the others.

She is also sitting on 4 eggs which are due to hatch in 2 days. I planned to offer another coop for her and chicks to use if they want, assuming they hatch. But as a result of reading your long and informative posts I wonder if I'll let whichever birds want to use the second coop. Do you think that would be a good idea or not?

 

[Shadrach]

Your point of view is interesting. And I do agree that completely free ranging all the time would be more natural for a flock. However in a lot of circumstances it's not practical. I'll use myself as an example.
I currently have 8 birds. Mixed breeds, 5 pullets, 3 cockerel. (2 cockerel will be invited to dinner.) Which will leave six total, and a 5 to 1 ratio. I live on 2 acres of which 1.3 is swamp and unused. That leaves me approximately 3/4 to work with. I do not intend to extensively breed only raising chicks to replace layers as needed. I have a high predator population. In the last week, I've seen 4 Hawks, 4 raccoons, a skunk, and at least 5 of the neighborhood dogs wandering around. If I've seen these numbers what's been around that I missed. The week before I lost 2 chicks to a snake. I work around 60 hours a week in construction, my wife is disabled and can't provide much help. Given the conditions I have, I don't see a feasable alternative to an enclosed coop and run. I also disagree that raising any livestock for consumption is predation. If I was hunting chickens I would agree with you, but if I raised deer in a barnyard I would call myself a herder not a hunter.

I wouldn’t keep chickens at all in the circumstances you describe. However, you’ve got some and a coop is the only option if you want the chickens you have to survive.

I don’t know what BTC recommend for space for permanently cooped chickens but I would be looking at two and a half square metres per chicken in the run as a minimum. If all the chickens are of the same breed and better still, related, you could reduce that, but not by very much.

I’ve read here and elsewhere that if the chickens are Bantams ,or small breeds then they need less room. I don’t think it’s that simple. The breeds that range the smallest area here are the Marans; they don’t take to the wing much either. The Bantams and some of the cross breeds like to perch in the trees during the day at times and tend to fly more, that requires metres on the ground and in height.

Say you have ten chickens, that’s a very large coop, (the green coop further up this thread is for 4 chickens) and you’ve got a 200 metre square run in addition to the coop!

Some people can manage this; others can’t. My position is if you can’t manage what many agree is the bare minimum conditions then don’t keep chickens and /or reduce the number of chickens you have until the minimum conditions are met.

If I lived somewhere else and had a yard and had flying predator problems I would fence the entire yard and net the roof. The odd thing is I find, many people have fenced their yards but haven’t put up the right type of fence for chicken protection and inside that yard they place a coop and a run.

You might get away with describing yourself as a herder until you kill one.

 

[True Patriot]

I wouldn’t keep chickens at all in the circumstances you describe. However, you’ve got some and a coop is the only option if you want the chickens you have to survive.

I don’t know what BTC recommend for space for permanently cooped chickens but I would be looking at two and a half square metres per chicken in the run as a minimum. If all the chickens are of the same breed and better still, related, you could reduce that, but not by very much.

I’ve read here and elsewhere that if the chickens are Bantams ,or small breeds then they need less room. I don’t think it’s that simple. The breeds that range the smallest area here are the Marans; they don’t take to the wing much either. The Bantams and some of the cross breeds like to perch in the trees during the day at times and tend to fly more, that requires metres on the ground and in height.

Say you have ten chickens, that’s a very large coop, (the green coop further up this thread is for 4 chickens) and you’ve got a 200 metre square run in addition to the coop!

Some people can manage this; others can’t. My position is if you can’t manage what many agree is the bare minimum conditions then don’t keep chickens and /or reduce the number of chickens you have until the minimum conditions are met.

If I lived somewhere else and had a yard and had flying predator problems I would fence the entire yard and net the roof. The odd thing is I find, many people have fenced their yards but haven’t put up the right type of fence for chicken protection and inside that yard they place a coop and a run.

You might get away with describing yourself as a herder until you kill one.

First, your making some assumptions about the size of the coop I have. Coop and run combined are 1400 sq ft which gives 175 sq ft per bird. (16.25 sq m) Maybe not all the room available on your farm, but hardly cramped. They do have access to both at all times except during dark, at which point they are enclosed in the coop which gives them 12 sq ft each(1.11 sq m), and when I'm home to supervise they are let out.
Second, The idea of fencing 3/4 acre over 10 feet high with a roof? The practicality of such a venture would require some serious engineering not to mention the cost. I would love to see some examples of how it has been done by others.
Points of view differ, to you, me keeping my flock penned to reduce losses is disagreeable. To others, your point of view of free ranging all the time exposing your flock to predators is disagreeable. I'm somewhere in between, I would free range more, but to me the risk does not equal the reward.

 

[townchicks]

@Shadrach , perhaps I misinterpreted your original post, as I did think that you were "romanticizing" the old ways, and perhaps advocating for chickens roosting in trees as more "natural". I apologize if that offends you. I see from subsequent posts that "your" chickens do have coops, but also that you do suffer from predator problems. I am also not saying that chickens shouldn't free range, as a matter of fact, I believe that chickens do better psychologically if they have the ability to get out of the run and scratch and forage. My own 3 do get out and run about in the yard with supervision. I do think that those who free range need to accept that there will be losses, and stop blaming the predators when that happens. I also believe, when we domesticate a species, we have an obligation to protect them from the wild forces that they are no longer equipped to deal with. I do get your assertion that to study behavior, they need to be able act as they choose. I really am looking forward to what you learn from this.

 

[RustyBucketFarmGirl]

This has been such an interesting post to watch. I am very new to chicken keeping so i have been a quiet observer. It’s clear that everyone involved in the convo is very passionate.

All i know is that after keeping chickens for a few short month i have been committed to learning more and more every day. Almost obsessively. Forums, books and magazines have allows me to ask and get questions answered and then make my own educated decisions from there. Keep the information flowing!

 

[Shadrach]

First, your making some assumptions about the size of the coop I have. Coop and run combined are 1400 sq ft which gives 175 sq ft per bird. (16.25 sq m) Maybe not all the room available on your farm, but hardly cramped. They do have access to both at all times except during dark, at which point they are enclosed in the coop which gives them 12 sq ft each(1.11 sq m), and when I'm home to supervise they are let out.
Second, The idea of fencing 3/4 acre over 10 feet high with a roof? The practicality of such a venture would require some serious engineering not to mention the cost. I would love to see some examples of how it has been done by others.
Points of view differ, to you, me keeping my flock penned to reduce losses is disagreeable. To others, your point of view of free ranging all the time exposing your flock to predators is disagreeable. I'm somewhere in between, I would free range more, but to me the risk does not equal the reward.

Yes I did make some assumptions, my apologies. I'll get back to this later.