Chicken Run Foundation Over Hardware Cloth

[CrookedCoopAz]

Hi all! Newbie here. I have attached two photos of my set up. The initial coop/run (8x10) (photo on left) was inherited as is. We have made some modifications and have a few others in the works to get it where I would like it. It has a hardwood floor that I use pine shavings in at the moment. We will be fully enclosing it for the upcoming winter (White Mountains, Arizona) due to the frigid winds and snow and low average overnight temps below freezing.) Hubs put together this add-on 7x10 run (right photo) to give our 9 ladies more outdoor space. We will have an automatic door to give them access to it during the day. It's unfinished yet, still need to get the roof on and a floor. Due to the numerous predators we have in the area, he fully wrapped the run in 1/4" hardware cloth. (Soil is also full of large lava stones boulders and difficult to dig down into, which is why we didn't use the skirt method). We've been having a debate as to what to put down on top of the hardware cloth. We have no intention of enclosing run for winter as the coop itself is large enough that if we needed to keep them in during inclement weather we can. He feels hauling in some dirt off our land is sufficient (albeit, muddy if it rains/snows). And I thought covering the dirt layer with sand for an easy clean would be sufficient. I've spent 2 hours reading through the forum and now I don't know what to do!!! Some people say sand is bad if you have cold winters. Some say just dirt is bad since it wont dry out. We have access to straw, pine shavings, horse bedding pellets...just looking for some guidance as to what YOU would do with my set up. (Undoing it is not an option.)

Thank you in advance for your help!

 

[thecatumbrella]

So your chickens are going to want to scratch around. It's probably their #1 preferred behavior other than eating, so you need to make sure they can do that safely. If you really can't skirt the outside and need to leave the hardware cloth in, I would build a mini wall around the outside of the pen (maybe with 1x6 pressure treated boards), then fill with at least 6" of something. Sand, wood chips, mulch (though mulch will freeze in the winter). You'll have to go in and backfill all their trenching with a rake, but the hope is they're not making contact with the hardware cloth when they scratch.

Also, you don't need to bury the hardware cloth to skirt. I pin mine down with heavy duty, extra long landscape staples. Weeds grow over it. Can't even see it. You do need to find a way to secure it where it meets the run walls. Maybe someone has a good idea for that.

 

[FarmerGirl101]

Agreed with thecatumbrella regarding the hardware cloth. No matter if you leave it in or not, I would add dirt. 6" minimum but I would aim for closer to a foot if possible. Mine love to dig deep.

I would personally go for dirt so they can dust bath. Sand can work but my fear is that it will get too cold in the winter. With dirt at least the sun can warm it up more given that it is a darker color and will retain heat better. Plus all you have to do is till it to clean off the surface and it should break down. Mulch can work, I use it in our coop but I wouldn't use it for the run. Pine shavings is best for the coop, would not want to use it in the run.

You may have already seen this thread but I wanted to link it as I think it would be good for you to read since you are in colder temps. This thread has some good articles linked as well.

https://www.backyardchickens.com/th...ide-in-the-snow-or-keep-them-indoors.1650472/

 

[CrookedCoopAz]

So your chickens are going to want to scratch around. It's probably their #1 preferred behavior other than eating, so you need to make sure they can do that safely. If you really can't skirt the outside and need to leave the hardware cloth in, I would build a mini wall around the outside of the pen (maybe with 1x6 pressure treated boards), then fill with at least 6" of something. Sand, wood chips, mulch (though mulch will freeze in the winter). You'll have to go in and backfill all their trenching with a rake, but the hope is they're not making contact with the hardware cloth when they scratch.

Also, you don't need to bury the hardware cloth to skirt. I pin mine down with heavy duty, extra long landscape staples. Weeds grow over it. Can't even see it. You do need to find a way to secure it where it meets the run walls. Maybe someone has a good idea for that.

Thank you for your reply! We have trex boards that we will use to box in the inside of the run to create the barrier for the fill. (this weekend's project along with the roof) My husband used metal zip ties to secure the hardware cloth floor (and every where else!) to the bottom frame of the run, it goes under the trex board base in which the run is bolted to and over the sides and zip tied to the frame with the side walls. It's 100% completely enclosed. Can wood chips (we have a wood chipper) be used over a few inches of dirt if we line the floor with that first?

 

[FarmerGirl101]

Can wood chips (we have a wood chipper) be used over a few inches of dirt if we line the floor with that first?

You can, in my experience, my chickens just kick it out of the way to get to the dirt if it isn't thick enough. You could also maybe line the bottom with wood chips and put the dirt over it so you use less dirt and can build it up higher.

 

[CrookedCoopAz]

Agreed with thecatumbrella regarding the hardware cloth. No matter if you leave it in or not, I would add dirt. 6" minimum but I would aim for closer to a foot if possible. Mine love to dig deep.

I would personally go for dirt so they can dust bath. Sand can work but my fear is that it will get too cold in the winter. With dirt at least the sun can warm it up more given that it is a darker color and will retain heat better. Plus all you have to do is till it to clean off the surface and it should break down. Mulch can work, I use it in our coop but I wouldn't use it for the run. Pine shavings is best for the coop, would not want to use it in the run.

You may have already seen this thread but I wanted to link it as I think it would be good for you to read since you are in colder temps. This thread has some good articles linked as well.

https://www.backyardchickens.com/th...ide-in-the-snow-or-keep-them-indoors.1650472/

Thank you for that link! We are about a month out from our typical first snow and this was on my list of things to research. As for your dirt suggestion, we have acres and acres of that so I can easily line it with dirt. My girls have never experienced dirt outside their dirt bath. So I am not certain what their behaviors will be just yet, but I in no way wish to cause them harm by not lining the run properly.

 

[thecatumbrella]

Thank you for your reply! We have trex boards that we will use to box in the inside of the run to create the barrier for the fill. (this weekend's project along with the roof) My husband used metal zip ties to secure the hardware cloth floor (and every where else!) to the bottom frame of the run, it goes under the trex board base in which the run is bolted to and over the sides and zip tied to the frame with the side walls. It's 100% completely enclosed. Can wood chips (we have a wood chipper) be used over a few inches of dirt if we line the floor with that first?

Yes, the chickens will just mix everything together in the end. Have you seen how the run performs in rain yet? And what kind of soil do you have? I wouldn't add dirt if you have a good amount of water infiltration and/or your soil type holds a lot of moisture and is slow to dry out.

 

[FunClucks]

Thank you for your reply! We have trex boards that we will use to box in the inside of the run to create the barrier for the fill. (this weekend's project along with the roof) My husband used metal zip ties to secure the hardware cloth floor (and every where else!) to the bottom frame of the run, it goes under the trex board base in which the run is bolted to and over the sides and zip tied to the frame with the side walls. It's 100% completely enclosed. Can wood chips (we have a wood chipper) be used over a few inches of dirt if we line the floor with that first?

Sure. You can put wood chips over dirt. But the hens will mix it all up together. If it's plentiful, I'd put a bunch of wood chips in there, and then you can remove and compost them every year or two when they get nasty. If it rains, they'll self compost in place while the chickens stir them up, which is optimal, but there will be a muddy run. Dirt will run off in the rain, wood chips will stay put. Wood chips are compostable, and dirt just comes along for the ride.

It really just depends on how much effort and money and time you want to spend on this. Also how much rain you get. I get tons of rain most of the year, so I have 4-6" of wood chips in a covered run to help cut down on smell, flies, and bumblefoot. My happiest chickens are the ones in the driest run. I spray the insides down every month or two to keep the dust down.

Some rocks in the dirt will help them keep their toenails ground down, otherwise you'll have to clip them like dog nails. Some girls are bad about using some toes and not others. I clip chicken nails every other month.

 

[CrookedCoopAz]

Yes, the chickens will just mix everything together in the end. Have you seen how the run performs in rain yet? And what kind of soil do you have? I wouldn't add dirt if you have a good amount of water infiltration and/or your soil type holds a lot of moisture and is slow to dry out.

Being in Arizona, our soil is an interesting mix. Fine dirt mixed with caliche and natural cinder. While we don't get pounded with rain regularly, we do get our fair share of gullywashers. Right now the run performs horribly since we don't have the roof on. Haha. But where it is situated, is a mix of fill dirt and cinders, so we do get some mild pooling during hard storms, but it drains off relatively quick. Now if I back fill with dirt from the property , I could mix it with cinders to mimic the drainage on we have on the pad where the coop sits..

 

[CrookedCoopAz]

Sure. You can put wood chips over dirt. But the hens will mix it all up together. If it's plentiful, I'd put a bunch of wood chips in there, and then you can remove and compost them every year or two when they get nasty. If it rains, they'll self compost in place while the chickens stir them up, which is optimal, but there will be a muddy run. Dirt will run off in the rain, wood chips will stay put. Wood chips are compostable, and dirt just comes along for the ride.

It really just depends on how much effort and money and time you want to spend on this. Also how much rain you get. I get tons of rain most of the year, so I have 4-6" of wood chips in a covered run to help cut down on smell, flies, and bumblefoot. My happiest chickens are the ones in the driest run. I spray the insides down every month or two to keep the dust down.

Some rocks in the dirt will help them keep their toenails ground down, otherwise you'll have to clip them like dog nails. Some girls are bad about using some toes and not others. I clip chicken nails every other month.

Oh boy...my girls don't like to be handled (I got them as young hens, not chicks or pullets) unless its later in evening and now I have to add clipping nails to my list. LOL. I like your composting suggestion. We do have an active compost pile that I put their spent pine shavings in that I pull from the coop. I didn't think to add the wood chips to it too. And YES, wood chips are plentiful around here.