Chickens for 10-20 years or more? Pull up a rockin' chair and lay some wisdom on us!

[Pullet Surprise]

Duplicate of 12219

Breeding question...

I notice that most serious breeders offer breeding trios, being two pullets and once cockerel. But, all the "conventional wisdom" says that you need 8 or 10 females to each rooster. Will a young cockerel in this situation demand too much from two pullets? Should there be other females around to garner some of his attention?

I'm curious too.....

 

[Fred's Hens]

Quote:

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]There is two scenarios here, muddled together. One rooster per 10-12 hens a flock breeding quotient. This is mentioned often here because, yes, if one is flock breeding or colony breeding this is more or less the efficiency ratio. However, in my opinion this is not breeding. This is for indiscriminate reproduction.[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Breeding means specificity. Let's say a I have line breeding program going. I want the daughter back under the father, or the mother back under her son. That is limiting factor right there. But it is more than that. Suppose my rooster is needing help in an area? Let's say he holds his tail at 40 degrees when the standard calls for 20 degrees. My best hope in fixing that is to intentionally, selectively breed him a single female or perhaps two females that have very low, perhaps lower than average tail position in hopes that the offspring created hits a happier medium.[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]This thinking things through and selectively, as opposed to just randomly mating a flock, is the essence of good breeding. What's the goal, what are the faults, and how can improve what I have? Do I have a weight issue, a color, leg, head, feather, back or breast issue that needs work? [/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Flock breeding just won't ever get the job done. Hope that helps.[/FONT]

 

[Beekissed]

Duplicate of 12219

Breeding question...

I notice that most serious breeders offer breeding trios, being two pullets and once cockerel. But, all the "conventional wisdom" says that you need 8 or 10 females to each rooster. Will a young cockerel in this situation demand too much from two pullets? Should there be other females around to garner some of his attention?

I'll take a shot at this, though I'm no breeder. Chickens only need to be bred every 30 days to remain fertilized~from everything I have read on it~so one would not necessarily have to have this breeding trio penned up together exclusively all the time to get what one wants from the deal.

If I had a breeding trio I'd run them with the general stock until it was breeding season(in my book) and then isolate the hens if they have been exposed to other rooster seed until I was sure they were no longer fertilized with the wrong seed(check eggs for fertility for awhile), then I'd turn them in with the cock of the walk for a little breeding time.

When all eggs for a certain amount of time were coming out fertilized, then I'd let him go back to his business and let the girls lay me some eggs ~OR~I'd just leave him in there until I had all the eggs I wanted to incubate from this pair of hens and let them all reside together until then.

 

[Beekissed]

I was typing while Fred was answering..;.sorry!

 

[Fred's Hens]

Remember also that penning for breeding doesn' take all that long. If the rooster is a bachelor and the hens are kept separate during the fall moulting season, when they want zero attention from a male suitor nor laying anyway, they come out of moult in January, let us say. In January, one might be feeding them well, helping them regain the form and feathering. Then, in February, the days are now long and finally, the hens are laying again.

After four or five days in the breeding pen, she'll likely laying fertile eggs, the very eggs, from the precise matchup you desire. Let's say you have 4 breeding hutches set up. Each with the trio from your example. If the hens are laying 5 eggs per week each and you have 8 hens in 4 breeding pens or hutches, you'll easily fill your incubator in a week. You might then leave you pens together, or you might use the 3 week incubation time to do some re-arranging of mating pairs/trios.

After you hatched two or three incubators of live chicks? It is likely April and you're about done hatching for season. You can then break up those breeding pens.

The point is simply this. You're not keeping your small breeding pairings together for all that long. Hope that helps.

 

[kathyinmo]

I thought of this thread when I saw this..........

 

[Geoscba]

I have been lurking on this thread for quite a while soaking up all I possibly can, just like everyone else.I grew up in rural Oklahoma around A LOT of people that kept good-sized flocks, but since my great great grandmother, our family has not had them. My mom was also of the generation that seemed to be slightly resentful of rural life, though she's thawing out in her old age

.

Though until Spring I won't have any personal experience with chickens, I was particularly interested in the spirited discussion about genetics and breeding for characteristics, quality of breeders, etc. Part of the interest is that I have been beating my head on a wall trying to find local poultry. I figured if I could I might forego the idea I had about buying from Meyer hatchery. That conversation got me thinking...I realize these observations are a day late and dollar short, but I wondered if I couldn't offer a slightly scientific standpoint and flex my philosophical/academic muscles for a second.

It seems to me, in the limited dealings I've had with genetics, that what hatcheries breed out, you should be able to selectively breed back in to higher quality birds. Though it would certainly take a few generations and culling sessions, I don't see any reason why someone (like Bee, especially) couldn't wind up with outstanding stock from humble beginnings. Thinking of the genetics as a puzzle that major sellers remove pieces from, by selectively breeding and culling for missing traits, I don't see why you couldn't end up with something just as close to breed standard as some direct line descendants. Granted, you would have to be very diligent, I think it's possible to achieve wonderful quality from "big box store" type hatcheries. I like to think that prime traits for each breed are scattered throughout all those hatchery chicks, just waiting to be put back together, like the hatchery left the "puzzle frame" and scattered the pieces around.

Okie dokie. Done waxing philosophical. Carry on!

 

[JeffOeuf]

Remember also that penning for breeding doesn' take all that long. If the rooster is a bachelor and the hens are kept separate during the fall moulting season, when they want zero attention from a male suitor nor laying anyway, they come out of moult in January, let us say. In January, one might be feeding them well, helping them regain the form and feathering. Then, in February, the days are now long and finally, the hens are laying again.

After four or five days in the breeding pen, she'll likely laying fertile eggs, the very eggs, from the precise matchup you desire. Let's say you have 4 breeding hutches set up. Each with the trio from your example. If the hens are laying 5 eggs per week each and you have 8 hens in 4 breeding pens or hutches, you'll easily fill your incubator in a week. You might then leave you pens together, or you might use the 3 week incubation time to do some re-arranging of mating pairs/trios.

After you hatched two or three incubators of live chicks? It is likely April and you're about done hatching for season. You can then break up those breeding pens.

The point is simply this. You're not keeping your small breeding pairings together for all that long. Hope that helps.

That (and Bee's) helps a lot. So, I could get a breeding trio, let them run with the rest of the flock of mutts most of the year, and then isolate them when I'm ready to collect eggs to hatch. I wouldn't need to keep them separate all the time. That works in my head much better than what I was first envisioning (two completely separate ranges).

Just to be clear, we're talking about a real small operation here, but with the goal of having some very nice birds of some kind. I probably don't have the mind set to show them, but I'd like to have some nice birds. I don't want to get this to the point that I have more eggs than I can give away to close friends and family, then it turns into work. I'm thinking 10 or 15 birds, counting breeders and layers together, with a mess of chicks to sell in the Spring.

 

[JeffOeuf]

.... I think it's possible to achieve wonderful quality from "big box store" type hatcheries. I like to think that prime traits for each breed are scattered throughout all those hatchery chicks, just waiting to be put back together, like the hatchery left the "puzzle frame" and scattered the pieces around.

Okie dokie. Done waxing philosophical. Carry on!

From what I've gathered, it is possible to do exactly what you're talking about, but at what cost in time?

Once you decide what breed of birds you want, go to that breed's web site look at the breeder's directory. It will point you to the closest to you. That's a lot easier than watching the side of the road as you drive around.

 

[Beekissed]

I think it would take awhile, even with a great rooster, to breed out all the bad and different lines in some hatchery stock...depending on how much they have been fiddled with in the past. You would have to cull pretty intensely and you could still get surprises down the line that you thought you had bred out and was long gone. My BRs have white legs and their tails are so far up in the air that it would take a winch to get them down again....but then, I've never intentionally tried, so I could just be spittin' in my own hat.

But..that's probably a hazard with any type of breeding.