Chickens for 10-20 years or more? Pull up a rockin' chair and lay some wisdom on us!

[Erin~TheChickenLover]

I'm going to get my chickens calf manna and black oil sunflower seeds. I will also get some corn oil, lard, or whatever I can find like that for them as well. Thanks for the talk about a healthy diet for chickens!

 

[fowlman01]

Al, Jim, and others I’m going to disagree with you. Not everyone needs show quality chickens. Not everybody needs a dog that can take a prize at the Westminster Kennel Club Show. Not everyone needs a chicken that can take a Grand Championship at Ohio Nationals.
I think top quality show chickens are a waste for most people. For their goals, hatchery chickens are fine. I’m not arguing with you on the difference in quality and I admire your passion for your breeds. And I am not arguing about what people say, do, or know about chickens. But if you don’t have that passion, you don’t need them. Besides, without that passion to learn what to do and spend the time and money to do it right, if you start with show quality chickens without carefully and knowledgeably selecting the breeders, you’re back to hatchery quality chickens in a very few generations. Just from playing with genetics in my little flock, I think I can appreciate how hard it has to be to keep a flock of chickens show-quality.
I consider my parents and their parents about as old-timer as you can get. They raised chickens for meat and eggs to feed their families. They did not care about eye color, how pretty the feathers were, or any of that. They did not feed their chickens anything unless there was snow on the ground, then they would shell some corn and toss it to them. When I was a kid that was my job. Every four or five years in late spring, Dad would pick up a dozen hatchery chicks at the co-op, raise them for maybe three weeks in a cardboard box on the back porch with a bare incandescent bulb for heat and feeding them corn meal, then just turn them loose down at the coop. They lived (at least most of them did), they learned to forage for their food, and his next rooster came from those chicks. I was not aware of any show-quality chickens on any neighbor’s farm, but they all had a flock of chickens.
For some people it is important. Some people will spend thousands of dollars for a purebred dog that they never intend to show. Some people may show them or train them to work at specific tasks. I get my mutts at the pound. They chased an armadillo away from the house last night. Woke me up doing it to, but when I saw what it was I went back to bed. Some people want show-quality chickens for their own reasons. That is their business. But just because you have a passion for show chickens does not mean that everyone does.

There are about 4 people I can identify on this thread that I know show chickens and I don't think any of us would say anyone needs "show chickens".....whatever that is supposed to mean. Hatchery birds are great for the bulk of people that want to raise chickens. .....and most people don't need roosters. Most of the people who say they have or want (SQ as they call it) Show Quality. End up buying birds from an upscale hatchery or some bozo that convinces them they have show birds. I only respond to this stuff in this thread to be sure that the folks who lurk have an opportunity to read both sides.

As posted last time this show bird thing came up......real show chicken people don't make a bunch of money....it cost them a bunch of money. The people who are making the big bucks right now are the folks selling the "rare" or oddball chickens that are not even recognized by the APA as a bird that could be shown.
The only difference in the way your folks raised chickens and the way I raise them is that I feed them all year long. I don't use supplements of any kind because I think I can make my birds shiny by doing a good job of breeding them that way. The wonderful thing about these birds is that they require little effort to maintain their condition.

Last thing.....not directed at anyone in particular........how come some of you folks are still not getting that chickens don't look good this time of year unless they were hatched recently? There is a reason that chickens molt.

Walt

 

[fowlman01]

True on all fronts Walt and sound advice................... I agree also on being wary of picking breeds that are extremely challenging to raise, like the pure Cornish for example. take your time talk to some folks you know and trust for their advice and give it to you straight. then make your choice and go from there. It's the prudent way to go here and you will feel better in the long run.

Walt as usaul is the voice of reason.

hahahahahaha..........I don't get that a lot. hahahaha Thanks Al!

w.

 

[therapydoglady]

bruceh said "i moved to the so called country a while back to get away from the kaios . well that was fine for a while until the people i tired to move from came here..."

I'm tellin' ya darlin'! The world's got too many people in it...They're everywhere, and they're always gonna try to mind your business! Grab a lawn chair & watch your chickens. The most relaxing thing I do, and I always go to the house wearin' a smile! My great grandfather had a bush he called a care bush. It was for hanging all your cares on before you entered the house to interact with your family. My chickens seem to be my "care bush."

I, too have a flock of hatchery chickens I keep strictly for egg production and sales. I replace these birds ever other year. But I also have a flock of Dominic that are direct descendants from my grandmothers coveted hens. I get a new, good rooster every so often, and they raise their own little clutches of chicks. I keep the pullets, eat the cockerels, and smile a lot 'cause they make me think of her. Good hens? Who knows? They aren't show birds, but are extremely hearty and healthy. I had 6 older hens this Spring, 3 have hatched chicks, so the Dominic flock has increased by 21 birds! Will thin them out when I can tell more about them. Meanwhile, will sit in my chair every evening and listen to them talk to their babies...

 

[stonykill]

I want to show the ot's my breeding experiments. I mated in these pics a Black Sumatra rooster to a white EE and 2 white leghorns. What I found interesting is with the white leghorns I had a sex link it appears when mated with the black Sumatra. The hens are splash and look like full grown Sumatra hens, but they are only 4 months old, so they have some growing to do. The roosters look very much like a White Leghorn rooster. One is all white, and the other roo has a tiny black spot on him. I'll post some pics and then ask my question.

the black Sumatra roo used for mating looked just like this guy. Same size age etc. He was about 10 months old when I collected the eggs to incubate.
this is one of the White EE/Sumatra cross hens. They all pretty much look like this girl. Also their mother looks almost exactly like this.
this is what I got (2 of them) when I crossed a white leghorn hen to a Black Sumatra Rooster, and a rooster hatched. Nearly all white, slight yellowing of some of the feathers. This one is the biggest rooster in the pen. I plan on keeping this one unless he turns mean.

and this is what the pullets look like. same black Sumatra roo and White leghorn hens.

group shot, most of the 4 month olds. A few of them are in the coop.



These are for my own small scale farm. These won't be for sale. Nor will their offspring. These are for my egg laying flock and the freezer. The hens these youngsters came from were 9 to 10 month old hatchery birds. A bought 12 last July on a whim (leftovers in the feed store). 4 of them died 15 minutes after laying an egg. I suppose from heart attacks. I bred the survivors. The Sumatra roo used for breeding these is 3rd generation from my own flock. What I'm going for is a smarter hen, that is less flighty that lays well. so far they seem smart for a chicken and are way less flighty than their hatchery mothers. My sumatra's average 5 eggs each a week, and the white leghorns are good for 5, sometimes 6 eggs a week, so production should be good.

now to my question. Who should I breed the white leghorn/Sumatra roo with? Being he looks so much like a leghorn I thought I might move him back in the pen his egg came from and move that rooster elsewhere. Or should I mate him with a splash Sumatra hen I have 1st, then back to leghorns? I'm thinking the former, not the later. I can also move him into a breeding pen with a couple of RIR's. My thinking on the white leghorn is bred back to his mom and the other white leghorn, may produce a bird that looks basically like a white leghorn. Hopefully with some Sumatra brains.
Thoughts?

 

[bruceh]

i will take my time in choosing a breed. the ones i have now are hatchery stock black sex link, production reds, ee's golden comets, and delewarex rock . they produce eggs very very well. i try do things correctly . my birds tell me so. i observe constantly. make corrections as needed. my main purpose for having a true breed is for education. i may never show. if i breed that will come from the birds i have now. i know the traits they have that i like. only those birds who are the best will be bred. i do keep 2 roosters with the traits i like. a production red and a deleware. i will be breeding for sex links for egg production. the males i want to caponize for meat. kinda small though. good fro chicken corn soup. cornish x for me are still the best meat bird for me. i grow mine a bit slower then most people like. mine take 11-12 weeks instead of the 8 week rule people place upon them. mine are healthy, tasty, and huge. i get 10 to 12 lb birds after processing. that is on my table. no neck or organ meat. i am impressed.
i am doing some freedom rangers now.i got them because someone got stuck with 300 of them . so they were cheap a dollar. that is how i ended up with the comets same deal someone got stuck with 300 of them.
the bird i am missing is the barred one for black sex link. so that maybe my start of a true bred bird. humm. i just hate to take someones hard work and turn the off spring into a mutt.
for nutrition anything extra i should be giving my birds to supplement them. i use a very good milled grower mix with oyster shell free choice. i also include veggies mixed greens.etc. i use acv in the water. they do just fine as they are. i always look to improve.

 

[fowlman01]

I want to show the ot's my breeding experiments. I mated in these pics a Black Sumatra rooster to a white EE and 2 white leghorns. What I found interesting is with the white leghorns I had a sex link it appears when mated with the black Sumatra. The hens are splash and look like full grown Sumatra hens, but they are only 4 months old, so they have some growing to do. The roosters look very much like a White Leghorn rooster. One is all white, and the other roo has a tiny black spot on him. I'll post some pics and then ask my question.

the black Sumatra roo used for mating looked just like this guy. Same size age etc. He was about 10 months old when I collected the eggs to incubate.
this is one of the White EE/Sumatra cross hens. They all pretty much look like this girl. Also their mother looks almost exactly like this.
this is what I got (2 of them) when I crossed a white leghorn hen to a Black Sumatra Rooster, and a rooster hatched. Nearly all white, slight yellowing of some of the feathers. This one is the biggest rooster in the pen. I plan on keeping this one unless he turns mean.

and this is what the pullets look like. same black Sumatra roo and White leghorn hens.

group shot, most of the 4 month olds. A few of them are in the coop.



These are for my own small scale farm. These won't be for sale. Nor will their offspring. These are for my egg laying flock and the freezer. The hens these youngsters came from were 9 to 10 month old hatchery birds. A bought 12 last July on a whim (leftovers in the feed store). 4 of them died 15 minutes after laying an egg. I suppose from heart attacks. I bred the survivors. The Sumatra roo used for breeding these is 3rd generation from my own flock. What I'm going for is a smarter hen, that is less flighty that lays well. so far they seem smart for a chicken and are way less flighty than their hatchery mothers. My sumatra's average 5 eggs each a week, and the white leghorns are good for 5, sometimes 6 eggs a week, so production should be good.

now to my question. Who should I breed the white leghorn/Sumatra roo with? Being he looks so much like a leghorn I thought I might move him back in the pen his egg came from and move that rooster elsewhere. Or should I mate him with a splash Sumatra hen I have 1st, then back to leghorns? I'm thinking the former, not the later. I can also move him into a breeding pen with a couple of RIR's. My thinking on the white leghorn is bred back to his mom and the other white leghorn, may produce a bird that looks basically like a white leghorn. Hopefully with some Sumatra brains.
Thoughts?

IMO: you have too many things going on with your flock and there is no way to predict what the disposition or egg laying capabilities are at this point. You have a hodgepodge of at least three breeds here. Sumatra's are supposed to have black or gypsy faces and black legs, so it's background may not be pure either. Enjoy watching them grow out and hope for the best. What kind of comb does that leghorn looking male have? In the flock pic it appears that you have the makings of some blue hybrids if you put that splash birds with the Sumatra male. You seem to have a goal, but you also need a plan before you mate the birds or you are just propagating chickens.

Walt

 

[stonykill]

IMO: you have too many things going on with your flock and there is no way to predict what the disposition or egg laying capabilities are at this point. You have a hodgepodge of at least three breeds here. Sumatra's are supposed to have black or gypsy faces and black legs, so it's background may not be pure either. Enjoy watching them grow out and hope for the best. What kind of comb does that leghorn looking male have? In the flock pic it appears that you have the makings of some blue hybrids if you put that splash birds with the Sumatra male. You seem to have a goal, but you also need a plan before you mate the birds or you are just propagating chickens.

Walt

that Sumatra's face has darkened as the year went on. older pic of him. Also not the actual bird used for mating. Do I care if they are purebred. No I don't. I like their instincts, smarts and dispositions. Plus at this point we are so far from the Sumatra that was brought over form Asia, that it doesn't matter. but I don't show chickens. I don't understand the interest in it, and think it is a horrible life living in a cage at a show. But I digress.
Yes I have a goal. Good egg layers that are hearty and healthy. With the males having a decent amount of meat on them. My hodgepodge , well maybe so, but I wasn't asking about the other breeds bred. They do well. I found the sex link of the White leghorn/Sumatra cross interesting and frankly helpful. The eggs may not be as big as I hope for. but I'll know that in a few months.

The White leghorn looking roo has the floppy "80's style Flock of Seagulls" comb. Just what you would expect a white leghorn to have. This is one of the reasons I thought perhaps I should breed him back to white leghorns 1st.

I am asking these questions to firm up a plan.

 

[Minchi]

I have an Araucana chicked that hatched with curled feet. I am new to this but know I don't want any bad genetics in my flock. What is the best method to cull a couple day old chick?

Thanks for all the good info. I am going to get some Calf Manna.

Is that a genetic issue? If you hatched in an incubator it could have been caused by that.

 

[fowlman01]

that Sumatra's face has darkened as the year went on. older pic of him. Also not the actual bird used for mating. Do I care if they are purebred. No I don't. I like their instincts, smarts and dispositions. Plus at this point we are so far from the Sumatra that was brought over form Asia, that it doesn't matter. but I don't show chickens. I don't understand the interest in it, and think it is a horrible life living in a cage at a show. But I digress.
Yes I have a goal. Good egg layers that are hearty and healthy. With the males having a decent amount of meat on them. My hodgepodge , well maybe so, but I wasn't asking about the other breeds bred. They do well. I found the sex link of the White leghorn/Sumatra cross interesting and frankly helpful. The eggs may not be as big as I hope for. but I'll know that in a few months.

The White leghorn looking roo has the floppy "80's style Flock of Seagulls" comb. Just what you would expect a white leghorn to have. This is one of the reasons I thought perhaps I should breed him back to white leghorns 1st.

I am asking these questions to firm up a plan.

Have you ever been in a cage at a show? Have you ever been to a show...not a fair, a show? You have already expressed your position on showing....several times. No need to keep expressing it, especially when you are asking for help.

Even hatchery leghorn males don't have a lopped comb.....you have all kinds of things going on here and since none of these are pure/predictable, you have no way to know what their genetic makeup may be. This isn't about showing or any kind of standards. No one can predict what is going to happen with the matings you have already done , so I can't see anyone knowledgeable giving you direction with these hybrids. Try one of the experts in the breeding threads if you want an answer. It won't be correct, but they will give you an answer. There is no way to predict their behavior or performance at this point.

Play with them and learn from your results/experience, but don't expect anyone to "firm up" your plan, because there is no plan. These are F1 hybrids with unknown backgrounds other than the mating you have done. The bonus to the "80's style Flock of Seagulls" comb is that they can be used for lunch meat.

Walt