Chickens for 10-20 years or more? Pull up a rockin' chair and lay some wisdom on us!

[Kansas Prairie]

Hey OTs -- pecking order question. Your knowledge is appreciated!
My flock has a fairly clear pecking order, which seems to be based on who brooded with whom (and therefore age -- oldest brooderful are top dogs) and then size (little = low).
But one hen, as far as I can tell, isn't even in the pecking order.
She's small (only two bantams are smaller).
She lives happily amongst the whole flock, not sticking with any particular birds.
She sleeps alone -- as far as I can tell, by choice.
And the part that weirds me out: nobody picks on her. Low birds get pecked. High birds do the pecking. But nobody pecks her, and she doesn't peck anyone else.
Am I just not picking up the right clues to figure her out?
Thanks for your thoughts.

I know people who have breeds that don't go broody, they get silkies to hatch their eggs and the silkies don't fit in anywhere. It could be that the flock knows the silkies are aliens?

What breed do you have?

 

[normanack]

 I know people who have breeds that don't go broody, they get silkies to hatch their eggs and the silkies don't fit in anywhere.  It could be that the flock knows the silkies are aliens?
What breed do you have?  

Agreed -- whatever they are, Silkies are, um, odd. And you nailed it: this hen is a Silkie.

That said, the top rooster is # 1 or #2 overall (his favorite hen -- not a Silkie -- is at least his equal) -- and he's a Silkie. The most active protector.

After those two in order is another Silkie rooster. Also a major protector.

Then the third rooster, a Light Sussex. He does most of the breeding but very little protecting. In fact, he got his comb and wattles ripped in a major way last week, I assume by another rooster. This guy is meek. (But he gets the girls.)

The rest in line are all hens, and are a mix of breeds.

So is being a Silkie the only reason this hen needs to be so untouchable?

And thanks!

 

[thedragonlady]

Well, that is what I expected from mine too! I didnt spend 500.00 on a dog that I knew was going to be a constant source of disappoinment. They dont bite the kids, they dont mess with the chickens, and they usually come when they are called. So yahoo I have nice family pets. However, they jump on people even though I am firm about that, the lab breaks every fence including the electric collar fence. The Retriever still chews all toys and stuffies. They are underfoot constantly, they refuse to bark at any wild animal, they dont chase foxes, they try to bring pine cones and sticks in the house they beg at the table, lick the dishes in the dishwasher, race up the stairs to beat me and then sit in the middle of the landing like they forgot where they were going, the retriever has gas so bad it can clear a room, they eat all kinds of things that make them throw up, they only want to fight 2 other dogs in the whole 50 dog neighborhood...a geriatric German Shepherd whose owner calls me when she wants to let his blind deaf self out and an English Sheep dog that thinks the chickens are cool. They are terrified of bears and the are absolutely on a death watch for mountain lions. They have torn 2 porch cushions in half, they slime the windows, they cant figure out that the kids will run over them with their bikes, they leave their toys in the yard and they want to cuddle every time I sit my happy self down. They watch me constantly and then dont pay attention to what I am doing. I have told them I would rather step on them and break their leg than fall with a basket of laundry! They just look at me like I am their hero. Its maddening really. I am so used to the Pyrenees, that almost human mind and the peaceful sensible nature. Or the Aussie who will do crazy things but never let a fox near the yard. Ive had the animal control to my house 2x in 30 years. Both times Darcy escaped, dug under a neighbors' fence, played with her dogs, went in through her dog door, ate her dogs' food and was asleep on her couch when she got home. They are perpetually 2 years old- irrational beings who dont remember what a dog is supposed to have on his resume!

Your problem comes from the fact that your retrievers don't have a job.They are bred to RETRIEVE. Working dogs, such as Pyrenees and Aussies have a different intelligence to observe, and figure situations out. I have always been able to direct my working breeds by my eyes. They use theirs to communicate with flocks, so they pick up on you very quickly.Retrievers have plenty of smarts, but need to have their instincts sharpened in the working area.

I had a Golden for years, who was a wonderful show and field dog. He ignored the chickens unless I wanted one. I could point at an elephant, and he would figure out some way to bring it to me. I taught him to grab up the boys' clothes on laundry day and search under the beds, floors of closets, etc for clothes. He put them in the laundry basket. I never did successfully teach him to sort though!

If you want to civlize your retrievers, start by asking them to do something they understand like doing retrieves. Teach them what Back, Over left, and Over right, and Bring IT!, mean. This is in line with their instincts, and they will have done something right, and be rewarded for it. The beginning of understanding what Mom wants. Right now, they simply don't have a clue as to what you want.

 

[galanie]

Not here.

It wasn't there for me on Chrome either. Then I went to my settings and found that I had "Remove right hand column" checked. Uncheck that, and the new picture thingie shows up.

ETA: OOps I missed the part where Gargoyle already answered that. Oh well.

 

[Kansas Prairie]

Well, that is what I expected from mine too! I didn't spend 500.00 on a dog that I knew was going to be a constant source of disappointment. They don't bite the kids, they dont mess with the chickens, and they usually come when they are called. So yahoo I have nice family pets. However, they jump on people even though I am firm about that, the lab breaks every fence including the electric collar fence. The Retriever still chews all toys and stuffies. They are underfoot constantly, they refuse to bark at any wild animal, they dont chase foxes, they try to bring pine cones and sticks in the house they beg at the table, lick the dishes in the dishwasher, race up the stairs to beat me and then sit in the middle of the landing like they forgot where they were going, the retriever has gas so bad it can clear a room, they eat all kinds of things that make them throw up, they only want to fight 2 other dogs in the whole 50 dog neighborhood...a geriatric German Shepherd whose owner calls me when she wants to let his blind deaf self out and an English Sheep dog that thinks the chickens are cool. They are terrified of bears and the are absolutely on a death watch for mountain lions. They have torn 2 porch cushions in half, they slime the windows, they cant figure out that the kids will run over them with their bikes, they leave their toys in the yard and they want to cuddle every time I sit my happy self down. They watch me constantly and then dont pay attention to what I am doing. I have told them I would rather step on them and break their leg than fall with a basket of laundry! They just look at me like I am their hero. Its maddening really. I am so used to the Pyrenees, that almost human mind and the peaceful sensible nature. Or the Aussie who will do crazy things but never let a fox near the yard. Ive had the animal control to my house 2x in 30 years. Both times Darcy escaped, dug under a neighbors' fence, played with her dogs, went in through her dog door, ate her dogs' food and was asleep on her couch when she got home. They are perpetually 2 years old- irrational beings who dont remember what a dog is supposed to have on his resume!

I'm sorry your dogs are behaving badly. That's sure not why we get them! Our dogs are part of our family and we love them and with work they learned where their place was and what behavior is acceptable.

Please take what I'm going to say as motivation, not as a personal attack on you.

Are they fixed?

I'd let those dogs know I'm the alpha queen and their behavior is not acceptable. They would watch my every move because I'm the boss, they live here at my pleasure and they have certain behavior expectations. Dogs should not think they have the right to touch your things, much less destroy them, you and your family should be above them in pecking order. They should go where you invite them, not be under foot and a danger to you. They need to know you are not a litter mate they can not play with You as an equal, You are the ALPHA! They are smart breeds they should learn quickly, and knowing what their place is will give them confidence and happiness. Being able to do what they are bred to do (work) will bring them happiness and purpose. If it's a retriever, do you play fetch? If they are bred to enjoy swimming and retrieve do you take them swimming? Make sure they get to do what they are bred to do. They will want to please you, you help them do what they love. Give them work, they love to please you by working.


Do they have enough area to exercise? Bad gas is a sign of not enough exercise & or the wrong food. Daily exercise solves many behavior problems with dogs who are bred to work. Dogs nails grow, if they don't keep them warn down with exercise, they need trimmed or they will naturally dig to trim them. If nails are trimmed correctly and consistently they don't naturally feel obsessed with digging. Digging under the fence makes their long nails feel better. The dogs should lay there and let you trim their nails.

This sounds blunt, but that's how OT's roll. Except Fred, I'm jealous of Fred's ability to word things without offending! If you can't control your dogs, you should get them to a trainer who can train YOU how to communicate with your dogs. A good trainer can quickly teach YOU what You are doing wrong. Only at Disney do dogs understand English, they have their own language and you can make simple changes so they understand where they rank in the pecking order at your place. For example when a dog lays on it's back it's showing that it is submissive to you. When you play tug o war with dogs it tells them they are equal with you and you want them to challenge you for position in the pack order. It's little things people do for fun that sometimes sends loud messages to dogs. There is a good reason that older dogs will take younger dogs down and put their paw on them and bark in their face, they are teaching them to be respectful, and that's talk dogs understand. Sometimes people get lucky and get a dog that behaves in spite of it's owner.

When someone has to call so they can let their dog out, you are a bad neighbor. In many places your dogs would come up missing if they trespass.

"Good fences make good neighbors"

Please know I say these things to help motivate you to get these problems fixed so you can enjoy these wonderful creatures!

 

[Fred's Hens]

Saving Money - Or At Least Not Going Broke

If chickens are inefficient breeds, old, sickly, kept past their prime, never made into freezer meat, etc? There's no way a pet flock is cost efficient, not matter what you do. Cutting feed costs by 50% requires a combination of feeding farm produce, quality locally ground feed (avoiding retail, fancy feed places like the plague), ranging and eliminating feed waste. Predation or other losses are also economic killers for sure and are unacceptable, no matter if pet, hobby or farming is the world view.

Now, small poultry holdings are rarely super profitable, if one factors in labor, but operating at a few hundred dollar per year loss basis is reflective of a subsidized hobby or pet keeping. Nothing wrong with that, but this economic factoring separates the hobby or pet type flock from the agricultural or even the homesteading world view.

 

[Beekissed]

Your problem comes from the fact that your retrievers don't have a job.They are bred to RETRIEVE. Working dogs, such as Pyrenees and Aussies have a different intelligence to observe, and figure situations out. I have always been able to direct my working breeds by my eyes. They use theirs to communicate with flocks, so they pick up on you very quickly.Retrievers have plenty of smarts, but need to have their instincts sharpened in the working area.

I had a Golden for years, who was a wonderful show and field dog. He ignored the chickens unless I wanted one. I could point at an elephant, and he would figure out some way to bring it to me. I taught him to grab up the boys' clothes on laundry day and search under the beds, floors of closets, etc for clothes. He put them in the laundry basket. I never did successfully teach him to sort though!

If you want to civlize your retrievers, start by asking them to do something they understand like doing retrieves. Teach them what Back, Over left, and Over right, and Bring IT!, mean. This is in line with their instincts, and they will have done something right, and be rewarded for it. The beginning of understanding what Mom wants. Right now, they simply don't have a clue as to what you want.

Exactly. Working dogs like to work and retrievers are no different. Yeah, they make great family dogs but they also look for direction...retrievers just don't usually retrieve or work unless told to do so. GPs are supposed to work independently, so they don't require much direction.

I only had one Lab that would retrieve and my current one is a Lab/BC mix that neither retrieves or herds...he just does what comes natural to a dog. He guards, follows the alpha, helps the alpha(me) do any work that I am currently doing....like your retrievers are trying to do with you, MM. They are underfoot because they are intelligent, responsive dogs who are waiting for a command. It doesn't have to be anything great, just any old command will do. When Jake is underfoot waiting for a command, I give him one....go lay down, go watch chickens, help me pull this, etc.

They also like to move...hunting dogs are movers, whereas GPs are good at lying down and watching and only moving with a purpose...their job is simple and doesn't require a whole lot of direction from man~watch the livestock, guard the livestock. Get those dogs moving with a purpose, give them jobs to do. Aussies like to keep livestock and others~sometimes humans~ moving in the right direction and that is their prime focus..they like commands but don't really need them. They too are pretty independent workers because their job is pretty simple...herd that animal and if they seem to know instinctively what you want when working with livestock it's because their goals are similar to yours...move this animal to a certain place. Retrievers, on the other hand, work closely and in conjunction with the human and only do their jobs when commanded...and will wait around to be commanded. If no command comes, they occupy themselves with other doggy things because they are BORED.

I often wonder just why folks buy working dogs and then try to turn them into house dogs. A house doesn't hold much work for a big dog to do and you are left with nervous, destructive animals with nothing to do and no one telling them what to do...only telling them what NOT to do. Very confusing for any breed.

 

[Kansas Prairie]

Lisa,
Awww, I love your picture! Thanks for sharing!

 

[Mountain Momma]

I'm sorry your dogs are behaving badly. That's sure not why we get them! Our dogs are part of our family and we love them and with work they learned where their place was and what behavior is acceptable.

Please take what I'm going to say as motivation, not as a personal attack on you.

Are they fixed?

I'd let those dogs know I'm the alpha queen and their behavior is not acceptable. They would watch my every move because I'm the boss, they live here at my pleasure and they have certain behavior expectations. Dogs should not think they have the right to touch your things, much less destroy them, you and your family should be above them in pecking order. They should go where you invite them, not be under foot and a danger to you. They need to know you are not a litter mate they can not play with You as an equal, You are the ALPHA! They are smart breeds they should learn quickly, and knowing what their place is will give them confidence and happiness. Being able to do what they are bred to do (work) will bring them happiness and purpose. If it's a retriever, do you play fetch? If they are bred to enjoy swimming and retrieve do you take them swimming? Make sure they get to do what they are bred to do. They will want to please you, you help them do what they love. Give them work, they love to please you by working.


Do they have enough area to exercise? Bad gas is a sign of not enough exercise & or the wrong food. Daily exercise solves many behavior problems with dogs who are bred to work. Dogs nails grow, if they don't keep them warn down with exercise, they need trimmed or they will naturally dig to trim them. If nails are trimmed correctly and consistently they don't naturally feel obsessed with digging. Digging under the fence makes their long nails feel better. The dogs should lay there and let you trim their nails.

This sounds blunt, but that's how OT's roll. Except Fred, I'm jealous of Fred's ability to word things without offending! If you can't control your dogs, you should get them to a trainer who can train YOU how to communicate with your dogs. A good trainer can quickly teach YOU what You are doing wrong. Only at Disney do dogs understand English, they have their own language and you can make simple changes so they understand where they rank in the pecking order at your place. For example when a dog lays on it's back it's showing that it is submissive to you. When you play tug o war with dogs it tells them they are equal with you and you want them to challenge you for position in the pack order. It's little things people do for fun that sometimes sends loud messages to dogs. There is a good reason that older dogs will take younger dogs down and put their paw on them and bark in their face, they are teaching them to be respectful, and that's talk dogs understand. Sometimes people get lucky and get a dog that behaves in spite of it's owner.

When someone has to call so they can let their dog out, you are a bad neighbor. In many places your dogs would come up missing if they trespass.

"Good fences make good neighbors"

Please know I say these things to help motivate you to get these problems fixed so you can enjoy these wonderful creatures!

No offence at all. Ive had dogs on my own since 1984. The problem here is that my old dogs were a better suited breed to our location wild life and lifestyle, along with that our kids were very small when we got them and the dogs didnt get the initial low down as well as our prior dogs when they were pups. The Lab Darcy is fixed. He is just now turning 3. We did everything to keep him in. Raised fences, reenforced fences, electric fence and collar, nuetered, trainer visits. The Retriever, Willaughby, has a thyroid problem and we medicate daily for that . He is not two yet and usually I nueter at 2 but I might hold off. Darcy has never actually fought with my neighbors old German but the German growls at him and he will stand up to that so she is being cautious. It also might be her way of getting me to join her outside. Weve lived her for 17 years and they have too,they watch our house and we watch theirs and they are like grandparents to the kids so maybe we arent the perfect neighbors but its a good relationship and friendship. We love the dogs, otherwise they would have been rehomed but its exasperating. The post prior to yours also had some really good ideas. Ill try to work with them on fetching what I need and maybe I can gain some respect for them. We were able to train them not to get on the beds. They are inside at night and if im home they have the run of the yard and they are on the back porch if im gone. When the English sheep dog walks, off leash, up the road I can call Darcy off but he makes it known that he will rumble. I guess its good that even when he is ready to fight he will still come back to me instead. The biggest thing is my lack of understanding the way their minds work. They do constantly watch me.

 

[Beekissed]

Saving Money - Or At Least Not Going Broke

If chickens are inefficient breeds, old, sickly, kept past their prime, never made into freezer meat, etc? There's no way a pet flock is cost efficient, not matter what you do. Cutting feed costs by 50% requires a combination of feeding farm produce, quality locally ground feed (avoiding retail, fancy feed places like the plague), ranging and eliminating feed waste. Predation or other losses are also economic killers for sure and are unacceptable, no matter if pet, hobby or farming is the world view.

Now, small poultry holdings are rarely super profitable, if one factors in labor, but operating at a few hundred dollar per year loss basis is reflective of a subsidized hobby or pet keeping. Nothing wrong with that, but this economic factoring separates the hobby or pet type flock from the agricultural or even the homesteading world view.

I agree. In this economy, every penny counts and I don't believe I know anyone that doesn't complain about their bills. If you find yourself complaining about the cost of feed, look at what you are feeding and decide if it's worth all the complaining.

If it's worth it to you to keep useless but entertaining animals, then nothing to complain about. If it's worth the stress of dealing with sickness and other flock problems, why come on the forum asking for advice? Just do what you've been doing and you will have the stress that you feel is worth it all.

If it's worth having to constantly replace the birds that you've let die of old age, sickness and predation, then don't bother to ask for advice about these issues...just carry on. After all, they provide you with what you are looking for in the way of pets, entertainment, hobby, etc....stress, worry and expense that you feel is all worth it to have these chickens.