Chickens in Permaculture

[centrarchid]

See link on cattle dealing with copper toxity with very limited research.

http://www.saltinstitute.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/STM-3rd-2011.pdf


Sometimes selection pressure and introduction of new blood needs to consider more than just color, gain and efficiency.

 

[Leahs Mom]

What kind if soil do you have to work with? Sandy, clay, loamy...alkaline, etc... Sometimes the weeds that are flourishing can tell you what ails your soil, or what kind of nutrient profile is there for plants to feed on, so letting us know what weeds dominate can narrow the soil type down

Bee garden, absolutely! I have butterfly beds, bee beds... The more flowers to call beneficials, the better, and pretty much ALL herbs or flowers have some sort of medicinal or nutrient that benefits both animals and people

Borage is a HUGE bee magnet. Bees all over, and the flowers are edible and great vitamin punch; my chooks don't touch them, so they're good for something they wouldn't eat that can stay healthy for the bees... Gallardia is another good one, as well as lazy susans and echinacea.. Bee balm, anise, and even cilantro self seed readily, and comfrey, nettles, dill, and wormwood are all great bee/beneficial/medicinal herbs that grow rampant around here.

I literally just toss seed where I want them, and water every day until I see seedlings, and then I never put down seeds again. If they grow, great. If not, ok whatever

most times they grow, set seed, and migrate to where THEY want to be rather than where I want them, but sometimes they're a wee bit smarter than we are about selecting the right soil for the right plants

Okay, I'm finally getting back to this. Sorry so long.

Soil... well about 1 acre of it seems sandy and dry. I'm trying to help that part in various ways. Was going to put down some manure but haven't been able to find any that is "clean" (which for me means from animals that aren't eating items from chemically fertilized ground, no pesticides or herbicides on grazing land or feed, no pharmaceutical worming medications as I don't want to contaminate the ground). This may mean that I need to just put my own animals on there to help things. I have considered doing the raw milk spraying but haven't gotten a sprayer yet.

On that part of the ground I'm not sure what the weeds are. I'll have to get an identifier out. They are different than all the rest of the land.

On the rest of the pasture there was lawn-type grass/clover mix. There are "some" dandelions there but not profusely. This area grows very well and retains moisture well.

Another area shows a lot of plantain - both broad and narrow leaf.


On the wildflower mix, have you had luck just tossing them right on the current grasses?

 

[lazy gardener]

I'm afraid that might be way too much calcium and not enough mag...

The mineral they're getting right now is 13% magnesium... Dolomitic lime doesn't have enough to be useful with that much calcium, although it's a great idea to try to find a cheaper (ahem lol) supplement than the one they get right now.

We have to get the excess copper out if the soil and it seems thecgrasses cause the problems; where legumes can add magnesium in forage for feed they don't pull copper from the soil, and we need the copper to bind with something...

I had wondered about using the DL in the soil, but that might offset the calcium in the soil

Argh. We've done this mineral thing with the wheatfields and copper problem since I was a kid; my folks never tried to do anything other than supplement; I think I now know why

SG, have you ever heard of Bio-Char? I have no idea if that would help to bind your copper or not, but it's something you might look into.

What is BTE?

Bee converted her garden to BTE this spring. I've been putting in a BTE orchard. Won't be able to let you know until spring if it's solved my issues with heavy wet clay subsoil, with a high water table in the orchard area. It appears to be doing the trick, but the proof won't express until I see if the trees have survived the winter. I'm also working on converting my garden. Slow process. I have a total of 21 - 40 cu. yds of tree chips to spread. The only practical way to do it is one WB full at a time. But, I've waded through about 10 cu. yds so far! Who needs a gym membership???

 

[shortgrass]

Okay, I'm finally getting back to this.  Sorry so long.

Soil... well about 1 acre of it seems sandy and dry.  I'm trying to help that part in various ways.  Was going to put down some manure but haven't been able to find any that is "clean" (which for me means from animals that aren't eating items from chemically fertilized ground, no pesticides or herbicides on grazing land or feed, no pharmaceutical worming medications as I don't want to contaminate the ground).  This may mean that I need to just put my own animals on there to help things.  I have considered doing the raw milk spraying but haven't gotten a sprayer yet.

On that part of the ground I'm not sure what the weeds are.  I'll have to get an identifier out.  They are different than all the rest of the land.

On the rest of the pasture there was lawn-type grass/clover mix.  There are "some" dandelions there but not profusely.  This area grows very well and retains moisture well. 

Another area shows a lot of plantain - both broad and narrow leaf.


On the wildflower mix, have you had luck just tossing them right on the current grasses?

Apologies for taking so long too! Lol busy time of year

The sandy spot would probably do great with some leaf mulch or compost spread on it and maybe something like a chickweed or clover would have a shallow root system to be able to spread through the sand to get as much water as possible. A clover would also put nitrogen in the soil and its a great green manure or cover crop

The rest of the yard sounds like you have almost perfect soil already, especially if you have plantain. I had to look those up lol, I assume its fairly warm where you are ha-ha

Plantain need rich loamy fertile soil with a ph from 5.5-7, which is slightly acid, but actually perfect for most veggies and grasses, which prefer 6-6.5 ph. You probably won't need to do anything in the way of nutrient needs, so its going to depend on what exactly you want to do with these areas; ie, reseed, change completely, naturalize.. There are a lot if options for you since you have good soil and a warm climate

Wildflowers, I like to scratch up the grass first, scarify it to pull out old dead grass and expose the soil around it, then I broadcast and keep watered daily until I see sprouts.. Oh and I have to keep the chooks away since they seem to know when u have a handful if seeds and will eat them right up if I don't block them off from the area

I have a tendency to overseed, too lol, I use way too much seed, lol but I figure that probably only 10% of them are going to make it to adulthood ha-ha, so I really go to town when I'm seeding in spring

 

[shortgrass]

SG, have you ever heard of Bio-Char?  I have no idea if that would help to bind your copper or not, but it's something you might look into.  

Bee converted her garden to BTE this spring.  I've been putting in a BTE orchard.  Won't be able to let you know until spring if it's solved my issues with heavy wet clay subsoil, with a high water table in the orchard area.  It appears to be doing the trick, but the proof won't express until I see if the trees have survived the winter.  I'm also working on converting my garden.  Slow process.  I have a total of 21 - 40 cu. yds of tree chips to spread.  The only practical way to do it is one WB full at a time.  But, I've waded through about 10 cu. yds so far!  Who needs a gym membership???

I was getting ready to go look that up and see what I can find out; I have heard of it, but haven't investigated it yet, lol I keep getting sidetracked!

Lol I know what you mean with the leaves... Only AFTER I had raked almost an acre of trees to get a nice batch of leaves for my pile, I read Bees trick of driving around snagging everyone's already raked and bagged leaves... Lol needless to say, I hung up the rake in shame that day ha-ha

Between that and chucking frozen pumpkins around and chasing the rogue 3 musketeer BRs for the last few days, I'm thinking if having people pay ME to come workout in my yard lol


What kind of plants are you considering for the orchard? Sounds like you're getting ready to do something BIG

 

[centrarchid]

I am messing with biochar on two fronts. First with fish, second with chickens. Co-worker develops methods for small scale production and does field trials using the stuff as a soil amendment. My role is creating a biochar that is incorporated into animal feces for same use plus with fish the possibly reduce waste in effluents. Fish (Rainbow Trout) eat the stuff like candy with not apparent ill effects. A small group of chickens just stared eating feed with biochar incorporated in at a rate of ~ 5% (biochar dry relative to total diet dry weight). I have a palatability concern. The dogma that chickens do not have the ability to taste or smell is not based on fact once you get away from production breeds provided only one type of feed.

 

[shortgrass]

Ah! Well I feel really stupid, yet again lol

I live in a vacuum lol, evidently I don't know the fancy words for these things, but I'm catching on quick ha-ha ..oh wow, you would think that I'd never used the internet before

Biochar, yes, I've seen it, I've DONE it ROFL..

10 years ago, I was digging up a spot right next to our new house for some bushes, and about 2' down, I ran into a layer of charcoal about a foot thick. It had stumped me as to why it was buried like that, and it wasn't charcoal like from the grill. It was big chunks, like someone had buried a burning stump.

I looked into the benefits of charcoal in soil amendment, and had left it there and planted new flowers and a barberry bush in that spot.

That was the biggest, fastest growing barberry bush I have ever seen in my life! We have since moved, but the last time I saw that bush, it was well over 6' wide, and 5' tall. And it was only 3 years old!

Yes, I most definitely will look closer at the biochar....

Carbon. It's a pretty major component to life

What benefit are the fish getting from it, @centrarchid? Are they eating it, or is it more for the water? When you say waste, I'm not sure if that means that what they are eati g is being used more efficiently, leading to less waste, or is it because it's in the water?... Sorry if it's a dumb question lol, I don't know a thing at all about fish

 

[centrarchid]

They eat it as part of the pellets they are fed. Potential benefits for me involve water quality. Waste of concern to me are in the feces. I want to arrest leaching so those components can be used later as nutrients for plants. More to it than this but immediate concern is can they eat biochar without ill effects.

 

[shortgrass]

Oh ok, like in an aquaponics setting, for example?
The first thing that pops into my head is when we have to use activated charcoal when an animal has ingested poison; no ill effects there, as far as the animal goes it saves their life; I never thought of what it makes if those toxins in the waste... Hmmm...

The second thing g I think if is the carbon in the filters for filtering water .. The carbon isolates the impurities, but then, are the impurities concentrated in the carbon, or are they "chelating", per se?

 

[jamesphelps]

Hopefully this will come through. Strawberries planted in raised gutters. I cannot tell if they are waste high or overhead. I would love a patio cover like this, just reach up and grab a berry! Yum! I love your life story. Mine is nowhere so dramatic. I love animals though, it seems to have settled on my chickens. I raise the rare breed Andalusian in large fowl and I'm working on developing a bantam variety. I wish that I could look around and see nothing but grass and chickens but I'm in the desert. I'm "working on" changing my little corner of the ten acres we have here. Most of it is still in the planning stages though. So what kind of stuff have you implemented to change or make the best of your soil? Do you have pictures? Well, hopefully some more people will chime in here and we can have fun with this and learn stuff too.

Very neat idea