Chickens Not Allowed, Going to Anyway.

[Beekissed]

Currently I live in a city where I can not have chickens. The law does not list specifically that it does not allow chickens. However, I have called the planning and zoning people and they said that they do not allow it. Would people here recommend against having them anyway even if I have a family member who is willing to take them if we have to get rid of them? If I do get them anyone have any experience or advice on how to "disguise" them the best way possible?


The city states that I can have household pets (listed below) but they state that chickens are not household pets and are considered livestock. However due to the vagueness of their definition I believe chickens meet this definition.
Household Pets: Small animals which are customarily kept as household pets or which
are generally trainable and readily adaptable to urban residences. Household pets may include
small domestic animals as well as other nontraditional pets and exotic animals.

I wouldn't. There is no amount of eggs or the pleasure of keeping chickens worth having to fight, hide, lie, or otherwise compromise good values and your peace of mind. I've read many threads about this on this forum and others where the people who go against their town about having a few chickens end up in some high levels of distress and strife in their lives over it, with neighbor complaints, visits from the cops, fines levied, and, finally, having to give up the birds they've grown attached to.

It's just not worth it for a few eggs. It would be cheaper and less stressful, while also supporting your local farmers, if you just purchased your eggs from a reputable farmer or backyarder that lives outside these zoning restrictions.

Imagine what this teaches children...rules are not to be followed if you really, really just want what you want regardless of the rules. It doesn't matter that the rules are there for a good reason, if you want something do it anyway~ even if you have to lie, conceal and live in strife with other people to get it. Rules are for other people, but not for you.

 

[Lazy J Farms Feed & Hay]

I wouldn't. There is no amount of eggs or the pleasure of keeping chickens worth having to fight, hide, lie, or otherwise compromise good values and your peace of mind. I've read many threads about this on this forum and others where the people who go against their town about having a few chickens end up in some high levels of distress and strife in their lives over it, with neighbor complaints, visits from the cops, fines levied, and, finally, having to give up the birds they've grown attached to.

It's just not worth it for a few eggs. It would be cheaper and less stressful, while also supporting your local farmers, if you just purchased your eggs from a reputable farmer or backyarder that lives outside these zoning restrictions.

Imagine what this teaches children...rules are not to be followed if you really, really just want what you want regardless of the rules. It doesn't matter that the rules are there for a good reason, if you want something do it anyway~ even if you have to lie, conceal and live in strife with other people to get it. Rules are for other people, but not for you.

I can't top what Beekissed wrote.

 

[Accident]

If the city comes after you, they start with a process or an order of some kind. Research on You Tube. The city is a corporation. You can fight them with knowledge and it doesn't have to be stressful. You havn't committed a CRIME by keeping chickens in the city 'area'. There is no victim or injured party. Start with that. Good luck.

 

[papaclark]

Baaaaaa, Baaaaaaa, baaaaaaa Sheep. Sheep shouldn't be raising chickens anyway. What are we teaching our children? To be suservient and never question authority....To allow someone else to control what you eat, where you shop, what YOU THINK....Teach your children about the laws of nature, not the self-serving laws of a few politicians. Teach them to think for themselves and to stand up for what is right. There was a time when America wanted everyone to raise a few backyard chickens, start a garden, eat right, exercise. Now it's Illegal to harvest Rainwater some places, others are trying to tax the sun (solar power panel)Tax, and the people running the show from the local yokels to the freakin White House don't give a crap about you or your way of life. Lip-service is all they provide. Do what you feel is right, keep a low profile and ALWAYS PRACTICE THE GOLDEN RULE, ....Period.

 

[Beekissed]

Even the rule about "Thou shalt not bear false witness."?

 

[Blooie]

For the sake of argument, let's pretend that I am a non-chicken owner. Okay, I paid as much for my house as you probably did for yours. I lived in apartments and military housing for more years than some of you have been alive, so when I suddenly had the opportunity to buy a lovely home in an nice neighborhood with peace and quiet, with less traffic, less congestion, and the ability to sit out on my patio after a rough day and relax with my family, I was elated. Like you, (and that's a generic you, not a specific singling out) owning my own place was a dream I'd saved and worked hard for. Suddenly there's all this unusual racket, an increase in critters in my neighborhood, and an occasional whiff of something less than pleasant, although it usually doesn't last long. One day I even saw a chicken in my flower beds. Where the heck did that come from? And why are my stepping stones by the garden dotted with chicken poop? So I make a call to the city officials explaining my dilemma. They come out to investigate and lo and behold there's an illegal chicken coop and several chickens in the neighboring yard. The owner (you) gets all up in arms because I contacted the city - not even considering that you were the only one doing anything illegal. No, you're mad because I had the gall to be so confused and concerned about what was going on that I'd actually reported you. I must hate you. I must be either an evil, nasty, snoopy chicken hater, a commercial producer, or a "goose stepping Nazi". Why? Well, because I didn't spend hundreds of thousands of dollars in the purchase price, taxes, utilities and insurance on my dream home to live next door to a farm - small or otherwise - and I hadn't been prepared for that possibility. But you don't care about that - it's all about your rights and what you want to do, not about sharing the neighborhood space with a majority of people who are still content to get their eggs and chickens from the store.

Whenever these chicken owner vs neighbor/city/laws threads come up there are several common denominators.....
"The problem is the big corporations and corporate greed." I would be willing to bet that most big corporations are not one bit threatened by someone's desire to raise backyard chickens for meat, eggs, entertainment, education for their kids, or all of the above. They don't even break a sweat over it....anymore than commercial vegetable growers or wine makers sweat a backyard or community vegetable garden or a few grapevines for homemade wine. They have bigger issues than a few backyard producers and they will always have a pretty stable market, so in the overall scheme of things I'd be really careful about over-inflating your importance to their bottom line. Truth is, you are just not important to them because you are not a threat to them. Period.

"My chickens don't make any noise (have any smell, get out of their pen, etc) so my neighbor is just being unreasonable (or whatever name fits in this spot)." Really? Why is it that the only person who doesn't hear a dog barking at 2 am is the dog's owner? You sure are quick to point out barking dogs in your arguments, but obviously the dog that bothers you isn't bothering the dog's owner. Nobody ever thinks their set-up is anything less than ideal. They usually refuse to believe that their chickens are anything but quiet, clean and perfect. Often those same people are pretty quick to say "my kid wouldn't do that", until the time their kid is caught with his hand in the cookie jar. Your chickens do make noise - some more than others - and when the wind is right and it's been a day or two since your coop was cleaned they do smell bad - even if you correct it as soon as you notice it. If that odor drifting over the fence happens to be during the hour or so I'm outside, what am I supposed to think? And how many chicken owners have said, "Well, they don't usually get out, except for this one time......" Even one time is too many times to find my flowers nibbled and big old chicken poops on my property. And do you really believe that I have nothing better to do with my time than snoop over your fence and find things to complain about? Oh, some do, I'll grant you that, but most of us are too busy trying to find a way to pay our bills, take care of our kids, keep up our property, and enjoy a little leisure time to worry about what you're doing, unless it actually does impact us directly.

Having chickens in my yard is a perfectly reasonable thing to do, since I want to be self-sustaining and teach my kids how to raise their own food. How reasonable is it to want chickens so badly that you are willing to alienate neighbors, antagonize city officials, and blame everyone but yourself for hiding them in the first place? Hiding says one thing - "I knew it was illegal but it's a law I don't like so I'm not going to follow it. Neener, neener!" While you're teaching your kids about the joys of homegrown food you're also going to teach them that they don't have to obey a law they don't like. Underage consumption of alcohol, and especially driving under that influence, is also against the law. If you teach them now that the law doesn't apply to them, how will you react when they are old enough to pick and choose for themselves which laws to obey and which to flaunt, and when disobeying one of the laws they've decided to ignore kills or injures someone? And what parent teaches their child to lie to get what he/she wants? Besides, nobody is asking anyone's children to be subservient, just pro-active and being a vehicle for change if a law is wrong. There's a difference.

"City officials are greedy goosestepping Nazis who just take bribes from corporations, and are out to get me and/or my money." As a "goosestepping Nazi", I resent that. If you believe it's unfair to outlaw chickens because of the bad behavior of a few owners, then how can you turn right around and paint all officials with a black brush because of the bad behavior some of them exhibit? You simply cannot have it both ways. I've read a hundred times here that the mayor, Planning and Zoning, or whatever city official you might be mad at has nothing better to do than go after you for a few bucks. Remember, if you weren't in violation there'd be no fines to collect in the first place. So you put that ball in their court. They didn't build a coop in your backyard overnight and stock it with chickens just to take your hard earned cash. As a former planning and zoning commissioner and now a town council member, we'd rather not have to get in the middle of these kinds of disputes but as long as someone feels he is above the law we have no choice but to act on it. If that shoe were on the other foot and you filed a complaint about something, would you prefer we just say, "Oh, it's okay. He's not doing any harm so we just won't do anything?" Heck no, you'd be up in arms if we ignored your complaint, and we'd sure hear about it. And why isn't your name on a ballot if you believe that all government is corrupt and you alone are right?

The bottom line is this. If you want the opportunity to be heard, to be effective, and to get the laws changed, then the first thing you must be is credible. Gather up as much information as you can from communities who have successful ordinances on the books specific to poultry keeping. Form a committee. Be honest about what you want, and reasonable in your expectations. Anticipate having to make some compromise and accept that gracefully. If they propose an ordinance that allows, say, 5 chickens, but you want to keep 10, then the best way to get that done is to accept the limit, adhere to it, encouraging others to adhere as well. Then when the opportunity comes up to revisit the ordinance or to amend it, you have a solid track record of responsible chicken keeping to fall back on. Make the anti-chicken people say, "Well, I don't have any problems with So-and-So. Guess what I'd heard about chickens in town isn't always true." That's one more neighbor in your corner. Above all remember this, "My rights end where your toes begin." That goes two ways. Your rights end where mine begin.

Okay pretend time is over. I do own chickens. I'm lucky enough to live in a community where they are not only welcome, so are roosters - and cows, and sheep, and goats, and horses, and mules, and donkeys.....and it works. We had many new residents and other non-owners come to us on the town council and ask that we do something for their comfort. There were a few animal owners who were less than careful about cleanliness and housing, but there was no ordinance on the books to address it. Those who wanted to sit outside without barnyard sounds and smells were just as entitled to consideration as those who owned animals, but they didn't want to cause neighborhood difficulties. This town has had animals in town limits since it was founded, and it's a very important part of the flavor of living here. And many of the residents had founders who have handed their land down, and down and down again. So we had some tough choices to make. The result was an animal ordinance that we can all live with. We were successful because we were able to hear from both sides, give them both a forum with listening ears, and both sides presented their arguments calmly, respectfully, and with a lot of information to back their positions. We were willing to listen because they remained calm and respectful. We had them form a committee and work on compromises that were effective. They did it, and we took what they brought to us and made a new animal control ordinance. Some say we went too far, others that we didn't go far enough, but now there are regs on the books to enable us to act upon complaints fairly. We also charge a nominal animal permit fee at the first of every year, with a price break for 4-H kids when they bring in their 4-H packets. Everyone wins, and I still have the pleasure of watching kids walk their lambs down the street in preparation for fair season or ride their horses past the house with a smile and a wave. It can be done, but only as long as those of you who want it so badly can find common ground with folks who are hesitant. The only way to do that is to get the process going and then stick to it, and being sure that you aren't already in violation before you get started.

There, now let the flaming begin. I'm a Navy wife - I can handle it.

 

[ladyearth]

Papa clark and others are right on. tell those busybodies to" kiss my grits". who do they think they are????... right on . we should stand together and not be sheeple....
it is okay to hear neighbors yakky yakky dogs????
I call it civil disobedience. I for one do not follow the crowd....
take care all

 

[Beekissed]

Most excellent, well worded post from someone who's actually been on town official and gets to hear both sides of the story. Sound advice, also...should be a sticky.

 

[papaclark]

What part of "The Golden Rule" don't you get? If you don't want problems with your neighbors. don't be one. If you don't like rural smells and noises stay in the city. If you want to buy, eat and feed GMO products to your family so be it. No. I probably wouldn't try raising food or chickens in an apartment setting, or a Finely pruned pristine gated community, but that's not where I live. I live in a depressed neighborhood, where only poverty level residents reside. People don't buy here to live out their golden years, they do so because it's all they can afford. I grow and give away food. My neighbors love me. In our neighborhood if we have a problem we deal with it. No running to public officials crying about stuff. The system is flawed, and only works for those who have the money to further their own goals and interests. if corporations aren't worried about small farms and backyard growers hurting their bottom line why is Monsanto suing farmers over "copyright" infringement for re-planting seeds, why are states passing laws to keep you from harvesting rainwater or solar power? Yes, we should absolutely teach our children to pick and choose laws to obey. And I can see why someone who has worked in public service, or is married to, and dependent on the status quo for their living would want to perpetuate a broken system, but some of us don't have the money, time or inclination to play games with those feeding at the public trough. Some of us may not have been as successful in life as others, and may be required to be more frugal in our spending habits. Some of us may not have pensions, retirement plans, government guarantees... Some of us are trying to live on 750 bucks a month Social Security even though we worked all our lives. I'm not complaining, I realize I probably didn't plan well, my wife didn't marry well, my daughters deserved better, my grandkids wonder why I live in such a "crappy" house (single-wide mobile), but hey, it is what it is. I did my duty, served my country. Now I just wan t the "powers that be" to leave me alone. They just want the money.Everything in life comes down to the bottom-line for somebody. Follow the money or lack of it, and you'll find What is really motivating whoever or whatever. "They" want to cut social security, cut veteran's benefits, eliminate the minimum wage. $$$$$$$ And as far as drinking and driving , I really hope you're raising your children to make responsible decisions, it's not about picking and choosing which laws to obey, its about being a person of good character, caring, loving, compassionate, helpful, responsible, accountable. Common sense should prevail. And....The Golden Rule is a human thing....not a religious one.

 

[joan1708]

Chicken laws are crazy, crazy, crazy. I live in an HOA. I'm not supposed to have chickens. I asked my neighbors if they would mind if I have a few chickens. No one cared. I got 3 silkies 2 years ago. I made sure you can't see the coop from the street or any second story window or by satellite for that matter. The coop is under evergreen hollies. I make sure my yard looks good and stays kept up. I don't give anyone a reason to turn me in. I don't talk about them or show many people my back yard. So far, so good.