Chicks pipping at wrong end

[Kaerie]

Okay, so today is hatch day! We set 11 eggs. One was unfertilized, one was an early quitter. The rest have developed well.

Only last night, one of the eggs pipped at the wrong end. This morning, she hatched without any problems - and she's gigantic. Like.. head brushing the top of the incubator when she stands - just huge. She seems perfectly healthy, and has spent the morning "helping" (IE grabbing the exposed skin of another that was finished zipping, but resting prior to the final push).

This morning, of the 5 eggs so far that pipped, 3 of them are pipping at the wrong end. I've never had this happen before - but with so many of them, I'm thinking it has to be something environmental.

Info: mixed breeds - mostly Ayam Cemani, with a couple of SLW, and a couple of Barnvelder/Cemani mixes. 1 is possibly a bantam mix, not sure. Dry hatch, with humidity sitting right around 35%, measured on two hygrometers, until lockdown, when I raised it to 65-ish%. I've had the best results in the past with dry hatches, and air cells grew at an appropriate pace all the way along. Lockdown humidity mostly fluctuated between 65 and 67, and once hit 69, briefly.


Egg #1 - Ayam Cemani, no pip
Egg #2 - Ayam Cemani, no pip
Egg #3 - not fertilized, removed
Egg #4 - Ayam Cemani, no pip
Egg #5 - Ayam Cemani, malpositioned, hatched without incident
Egg #6 - Ayam Cemani, proper position, pipped 3 hours ago
Egg #7 - SLW - no pip
Egg #8 - SLW - proper position, hatched 30 mins ago
Egg #9 - early quitter, removed
Egg #10 - Barnvelder, malposition, pipped 3 hours ago
Egg #11 - Black Leghorn (possibly bantam cross) - malpositioned, pipped 13 hours ago

I have NOT opened the incubator at all once lockdown started, and don't intend to until everyone that can hatch unassisted has done so - probably another 24-36 hours or so.

As far as I can tell, on paper, everything has gone just about perfectly. So.. why are all my chicks trying to exit via the narrow end of the egg?? What, if anything, am I doing wrong?

 

[Kaerie]

Update: 4 total have hatched, with another 2 still working on it. Two were properly positioned, the rest have all pipped at the wrong end. All of the chicks seems pretty large to me, as well. Genetics, maybe, and they get too big to turn properly in the egg? I don't think my temp was too high, because they are all hatching right on schedule. But I did have to assist one, and will probably have to assist the two that are left (just peeling off the shell in the zip area, and letting them do the rest).

 

[CluckNDoodle]

Were they shipped eggs? Did you candle them before lockdown? Since multiple eggs seem to be pipped at the wrong end but are still hatching successfully that leads me to think that the air cells may have been saddled or detached because that's usually when I see pips in odd locations. To the chicks, that's just where the internal membrane meets the shell in those cases. It can sometimes lead to difficulties hatching if the chick can't rotate properly to unzip but in my experience, they're usually fine.
The other thing that could have happened is since you were dry hatching if you weren't monitoring the size of the air cell it may have just grown much larger from the lower humidity if the eggs happened to be more porous than your previous hatches for example. I read somewhere about the evaporation off of the eggshell creating larger chicks too but I'm not going to get into that because I don't understand it well enough, lol.
You may be able to get a better idea after looking inside the discarded hatching shells when they're done as well. I hope the rest of your hatch goes well!

 

[Kaerie]

Interesting theories! They were not shipped eggs, I gathered them myself and handled them extremely carefully. I did candle them before lockdown, and the air cells seemed normal size. However, initial candling did show several of the eggs were more porous. I'll have to compare my notes (I did note which ones they were).

As of this afternoon, 6 of them hatched, most of them with a little bit of help. All seem to be doing good now, though!

 

[CluckNDoodle]

Interesting theories! They were not shipped eggs, I gathered them myself and handled them extremely carefully. I did candle them before lockdown, and the air cells seemed normal size. However, initial candling did show several of the eggs were more porous. I'll have to compare my notes (I did note which ones they were).

As of this afternoon, 6 of them hatched, most of them with a little bit of help. All seem to be doing good now, though!

Since you made notes on which eggs were more porous I would interested in knowing if that's also the one's that pipped "backwards".
May I ask what Incubator you're using? And is it the same incubator you've used with dry hatches in the past? Oddly enough I prefer starting with dry hatches in my styrofoam Incubators and not so much in my plastic Incubators, I think they dry out more naturally and the air cells grow too fast.

 

[CluckNDoodle]

I have my Nurture Right 360 down to an art at 45-55% humidity for the first 18 days and 65-70% for hatch and it seems to be close in my IncuView though I'm on my first run with that incubator. I have to make more adjustments with my Little Giant styrofoam bator depending on the eggs but I'm happy starting with dry hatch unless I see too much air cell growth. Some people weigh their eggs as well to make sure they're on track with humidity but I haven't gotten into that myself.

 

[Kaerie]

Okay, I rated the eggs from 1-5 before placing them. 1 being the best quality, 5 being the most porous.

One of the two that pipped normally, I rated a 1. The other, I rated a 2. So high quality eggs, very little in the way of porousness. Of the 5 that pipped wrong, two were rated at 2, one was a 3, one was a 4, and one was a 5. The one that pipped but didn't make it to hatch was a 4.

So yeah, that seems like a solid theory here! I actually noted the egg quality because I've never had eggs that looked like that with initial candling before this. So it's very possible that my dry hatch method was just a bit too dry for these!

I'm using a little Janoel 10 incubator that holds 12 eggs. I usually use it when I've got less than a dozen I want to hatch, and it's worked really well in years past. When I've done anything other than a completely dry hatch (30-35% humidity until lockdown), I end up with super bad hatches, unfortunately. Like, 1-2 live chicks from a dozen fertile eggs. Again, though, that's with darker/less porous eggs.

I also have a Little Giant styrofoam (forced air) that I've used, but I had huge problems with cold/hot spots in it, when I only had a few eggs. The temperature varied as much as 3 degrees from one corner to another. I like the auto egg turning, but had big problems with smaller batches in it.

Thank you for those ideas! I will definitely keep that in mind for future hatches! And I guess it all turned out relatively well. 6 live chicks from 9 fertile eggs is still pretty darn good.

All 3 of my Ayam Cemani chicks have an extra tiny toe growing out of their outside toes. Not that I was going to breed these anyway, but I wonder if that's genetic or influenced by something in the incubation.. hmmmm....

 

[CluckNDoodle]

Well I'm so glad everything worked out well in the end!!
And I don't think I'll ever stop learning. Something new happens every single time I incubate eggs and it varies in every incubator!
I do agree my Little Giant is my least favorite and I have been using it solely for overflow and never all the way through incubation but I'm going to be trying some adjustments to see if I can improve hatchability in it by filling the cold spots and dud areas with stones.
If you're curious about it I'll post the link to the article on evaporation and chick size if I can find it again. I do love it when I encounter those that take as many notes as I do, if not more from the looks of your details!