OP- Is this a good Apple Head? He weighs 1.7lbs. I bought a Chihuahua not a teacup. I hate when people do that, too.
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chihuahua "types" rant
- Thread starter NewHopePoultry
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Agree! My mutt is much healthier and more relaible than my parents purebred golden retrievers that have suffered from arthritis, hip dysplasia and tumors. My lab/husky who was literally born in a barn, raised in a different barn and then a ranch and now my hobby farm is sleek, trim, healthy, enduring and only now at age 10 1/2 has she begun to slow down and show her age. In fact, I always want the vet to write a certificate that says "Dog is ideal weight." Everyone tells me she looks underfed but the vet says she's fine. People are just conditioned to fat pet dogs and not slender working dogs.
Agree! My mutt is much healthier and more relaible than my parents purebred golden retrievers that have suffered from arthritis, hip dysplasia and tumors. My lab/husky who was literally born in a barn, raised in a different barn and then a ranch and now my hobby farm is sleek, trim, healthy, enduring and only now at age 10 1/2 has she begun to slow down and show her age. In fact, I always want the vet to write a certificate that says "Dog is ideal weight." Everyone tells me she looks underfed but the vet says she's fine. People are just conditioned to fat pet dogs and not slender working dogs.
Properly bred dogs can also be healthy.
My dogs came from lines that were not extensively inbred. They are not big overweight 130lb German Shepherds. My boys are at 70 and my female at 45 pounds. I get the comment a lot about their weight. The easiest reply is to say, why yes, this is what they are supposed to look like. It shuts people up. lol
Dogs should be bred to standard. Or else you will have a chihuahua that is 2lbs and another that is 20lbs in 10 years. How could you possibly call both a chihuahua if they can't even be recognized from one another?
My dogs came from lines that were not extensively inbred. They are not big overweight 130lb German Shepherds. My boys are at 70 and my female at 45 pounds. I get the comment a lot about their weight. The easiest reply is to say, why yes, this is what they are supposed to look like. It shuts people up. lol
Dogs should be bred to standard. Or else you will have a chihuahua that is 2lbs and another that is 20lbs in 10 years. How could you possibly call both a chihuahua if they can't even be recognized from one another?
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You apparently have no understanding of the purpose of the AKC.
The AKC funds research into canine illnesses and disease. They make charitable donations to SAR groups. They promote the use of the dog for the purpose for which it was created. They advocate on behalf of dog owners and promote responsible ownership.
Conformation shows are about quality breeding stock. It would make no sense to allow dogs from other registries (all of which require less stringent pedigree documentation) to participate when they cannot confirm to their satisfaction that these dogs are purebred. They allow non-AKC dogs to participate in performance events.
The AKC is not 'messing up' breeds; it is those who are irresponsible, reckless and have a general disregard for producing quality that do that. Breed standards were established over centuries, not made up as they went along by one person thinking they knew better. Dachshunds have a tendency to suffer from back problems because of their conformation; breed a short-backed dog and it can no longer go down badger setts. Instead it is common sense to breed healthy long-backed dogs.
Incidentally AKC registration is not remotely expensive.
You apparently have no understanding of the purpose of the AKC.
The AKC funds research into canine illnesses and disease. They make charitable donations to SAR groups. They promote the use of the dog for the purpose for which it was created. They advocate on behalf of dog owners and promote responsible ownership.
Conformation shows are about quality breeding stock. It would make no sense to allow dogs from other registries (all of which require less stringent pedigree documentation) to participate when they cannot confirm to their satisfaction that these dogs are purebred. They allow non-AKC dogs to participate in performance events.
The AKC is not 'messing up' breeds; it is those who are irresponsible, reckless and have a general disregard for producing quality that do that. Breed standards were established over centuries, not made up as they went along by one person thinking they knew better. Dachshunds have a tendency to suffer from back problems because of their conformation; breed a short-backed dog and it can no longer go down badger setts. Instead it is common sense to breed healthy long-backed dogs.
Incidentally AKC registration is not remotely expensive.
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Conformation shows are about quality breeding stock. It would make no sense to allow dogs from other registries (all of which require less stringent pedigree documentation) to participate when they cannot confirm to their satisfaction that these dogs are purebred. They allow non-AKC dogs to participate in performance events
It has nothing to do with quality. If it did you would not have to buy a dog from an AKC breeder then go back an buy the rights to breed that same dog for its children to be registrable. Anyone that could prove there dogs breed true to type would be welcomed. Not just the ones that jumped threw the right hoops an payed the right people. There is no way in but cash an lots of it. No its not that expensive to register but its not about the organization getting rich its about the breeding members getting rich. Most livestock registerys let you regester your animal that is not with them previously then over time with the right record keeping you can prove your line worthy. The only way in to the AKC is cold hard cash.
I know lots of great breeders non of which are AKC. The good breeders usually don't even register, they just keep there own records an rely on there reputation. The AKC people I know payed a lot of money to be that an are pumping every dog out they can produce for the money. The big puppy mills are almost always AKC. Anyone that says a registered dog is worth more, better bread, or any other load of malarkey is just trying to sell dogs.
I can point you to hundreds of great chicken breeders on here. Non are getting rich doing it so we all know they do it for the love of it.
If we started registering chickens would that make the breeders we have now no longer good if they don't pay in to be registered. I dont think so but I bet everyone in it for money would be the first ones in line to join a regestery. So would it help chickens? No, but it would help peoples wallet. Then all the money hungry breeders would start selling how much better regesterd chickens are than non regestered one. An what would the good breeders do? Probably just keep breeding the same way they have been for years an selling on there reputation not some regesterys reputation.
I think I will stick to breeding my way on my reputation. I wont win any shows an I sure aint making a profit but boy do I sleep good at night with my pile of healthy dogs sleeping on top of me.
It has nothing to do with quality. If it did you would not have to buy a dog from an AKC breeder then go back an buy the rights to breed that same dog for its children to be registrable. Anyone that could prove there dogs breed true to type would be welcomed. Not just the ones that jumped threw the right hoops an payed the right people. There is no way in but cash an lots of it. No its not that expensive to register but its not about the organization getting rich its about the breeding members getting rich. Most livestock registerys let you regester your animal that is not with them previously then over time with the right record keeping you can prove your line worthy. The only way in to the AKC is cold hard cash.
I know lots of great breeders non of which are AKC. The good breeders usually don't even register, they just keep there own records an rely on there reputation. The AKC people I know payed a lot of money to be that an are pumping every dog out they can produce for the money. The big puppy mills are almost always AKC. Anyone that says a registered dog is worth more, better bread, or any other load of malarkey is just trying to sell dogs.
I can point you to hundreds of great chicken breeders on here. Non are getting rich doing it so we all know they do it for the love of it.
If we started registering chickens would that make the breeders we have now no longer good if they don't pay in to be registered. I dont think so but I bet everyone in it for money would be the first ones in line to join a regestery. So would it help chickens? No, but it would help peoples wallet. Then all the money hungry breeders would start selling how much better regesterd chickens are than non regestered one. An what would the good breeders do? Probably just keep breeding the same way they have been for years an selling on there reputation not some regesterys reputation.
I think I will stick to breeding my way on my reputation. I wont win any shows an I sure aint making a profit but boy do I sleep good at night with my pile of healthy dogs sleeping on top of me.
- Mar 20, 2008
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This doesn't apply to registered chihuahuas. But my pet peeve is people selling toy rat terriers and toy fox terrier puppies and passing them off as chihuahuas. I have seen those two breeds listed for sale as chihuahuas on Craigslist quite a few times.
I have had and have breed Rat Terriers for 15 years, so when I see one out in public I like to check it out. I never know what to say when the owner tells me that the dog isn't a rat terrier when I know it is.
I love my rats and get aggravated when people pass them off as chi's because they are the "in" dog right now. It has to be frustrating to long time chihuahua fanciers as well to see this happening.
I have had and have breed Rat Terriers for 15 years, so when I see one out in public I like to check it out. I never know what to say when the owner tells me that the dog isn't a rat terrier when I know it is.
I love my rats and get aggravated when people pass them off as chi's because they are the "in" dog right now. It has to be frustrating to long time chihuahua fanciers as well to see this happening.
Out here, there is only one standard for chihuahuas. That is that the hawks, owls, and eagles deem them lunch.
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Which is it?
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You'll actually find that most puppymillers register with the APRI or ACA, as their membership was suspended by the AKC. The AKC requires breeders to undergo compliance inspections and has suspended thousands of members and had their dogs' AKC registration cancelled for failing to follow their welfare regulations. They have random DNA inspections and have also revoked the registration of many dogs and issued lifetime membership bans on breeders who participate in fraud. These suspensions have increased the use of less reputable registries.
Inspections are mandatory for large kennels with male dogs producing more than three litters in a year, or seven in a lifetime. DNA testing is compulsory in these cases, resulting in many puppymillers being refused registration for litters as they refuse to submit DNA samples. Again this drives them to less reputable registries.
The AKC issues lifetime bans for anyone found to commit cruelty.
Here is some info on those 'other' registries:
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Which is it?
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You'll actually find that most puppymillers register with the APRI or ACA, as their membership was suspended by the AKC. The AKC requires breeders to undergo compliance inspections and has suspended thousands of members and had their dogs' AKC registration cancelled for failing to follow their welfare regulations. They have random DNA inspections and have also revoked the registration of many dogs and issued lifetime membership bans on breeders who participate in fraud. These suspensions have increased the use of less reputable registries.
Inspections are mandatory for large kennels with male dogs producing more than three litters in a year, or seven in a lifetime. DNA testing is compulsory in these cases, resulting in many puppymillers being refused registration for litters as they refuse to submit DNA samples. Again this drives them to less reputable registries.
The AKC issues lifetime bans for anyone found to commit cruelty.
Here is some info on those 'other' registries:
ACA ~ "American Canine Association"
Advertises that over 3000 adult breeding canines are registered each week. Only registry endorsed by Petland. Caters to commercial breeders. Refers puppy seekers to pet stores.
AFDSB ~ "American Field Dog Stud Book"
Besides registry service, they have a lot of advertising of products and certain kennels. AFDSB registers sporting breeds that are NOT recognized by the AKC.
The Field Dog Stud Book "registers all breeds of dogs records registered names, breeding background, colors, ages, sex documents ownership duplicates lost registration certificates and enrolls litters. Please give us a call or E-mail us and we'll send you easy-to-fill-out registration application forms today". [quote source]
APR ~ "American Purebred Registry"
Will register unknown pedigree dogs/cats, does not sponsor any shows, no proof of purebred required.
APRI ~ "America's Pet Registry ~ Inc." also acquired AKR ~ Academic Kennel Records
Advertises free registration for commercial breeders. Non Profit "dedicated to the preservation of the professional pet industry", dogs and cats. Founded by retailers of pets (commercial breeders and resellers). You have no recourse as a buyer of a puppy bought thru them if the seller does not want you to know their contact information such as phone number, etc.
ARU- "Animal Registry Unlimited"
Guarantees they will register your pets of unknown pedigree, encourages cross breeding. Special prices for bulk.
CKC ~ "Continental Kennel Club" ( DO NOT confuse with the true CKC ~ the Canadian Kennel Club ! )
"Continental Kennel Club" will recognize a cross between any two purebred dogs, and will issue a registration certificate on their offspring. These crosses are not registered as purebred dogs but are registered as the offspring of purebred dogs. "CONTINENTAL KENNEL CLUB accepts registration applications and issues certificates based on the honor and integrity of the owner/breeder applicants, and CKC accepts no responsibility for any inaccurate, false, or fraudulent information submitted on registration applications". "Continental Kennel Club" sponsors no conformation shows or championships that have a dog completing against others (their website claims that the dog receives a "evaluation").
"Continental Kennel Club" also gives big fee discounts to large kennels registering lots of dogs ( such as "commercial breeding farms" ~ also known as "Puppy Mills" ). Will register dogs not registered with other recognized registries. "If other kennel club papers are not available, the dog owner must provide two witnesses who can verify the accuracy and truthfulness of the information listed on the application". [quote source]
CRCS ~ "Canine Registration and Certification Services"
Caters to commercial breeders. ~ CRCS has apparently removed/lost their website presence. Two cached pages from Google search engine.
DRA ~ "Dog Registry of America" Formerly named "U.S. Kennel Club"
No DNA certification, registers unregistered/unknown/mixed pedigree dogs, brags about added value for sellers and confidentiality. "Tired of registration & documentation hassles? Starting your own blood line? Lost or never had papers? Developing new breeds? Breed not recognized? DRA Registers all purebred dogs." [quote source]
FIC ~ "Federation of International Canines"
Special bulk discount for volume breeders. If a purebred dog does not have any registration, they will register application for the dog, on a person's signature ~ "I (we) do hereby certify that I (we) am (are) the true owner(s) of the dog described on this application and that all information on this application is true and correct, to the best of my (our) knowledge and belief." [quote source]
IABCA ~ "International All Breed Canine Association of America" (associated with "UCI")
IABCA: "Domestic canines of unknown ancestry that are used in the development of a breed shall be permitted for registration purposes within the Foundation Registry only. Non-domestic canines , pure species or non-domestic x non-domestic hybrids are considered non-domestic and are to be registered in IPDBA's affiliate for non-domestic canines, the International Progressive Exotic Breeders' Alliance (IPEBA), Canine Division." International Progressive Dog Breeders' Alliance (IPDBA) Article V- General Registration.
A *International Champion* title on a pedigree - is NOT an AKC CHAMPION title! Take note how easily these "International Champion" titles are "awarded" by IABCA, with NO competition against other dogs!. The *International Champion* titles you might sometimes see being advertised by some breeders, were obtained by that dog never having traveled outside of the United States, nor even out of state in most cases! Many owners of dogs that could not hope to win a *champion* title in a registry such as AKC, will still seek to have their dog appear to have a *champion* title of some sort.
NAPDR ~ "North American Purebred Dog Registry"
A Dog that does not have registration papers or proof of pedigree may be registered with NAPDR. "A Purebred dog that does not have registration papers may be registered with the NAPDR. If you are 100% sure of the dog's breed fill out the information you know and write UNKNOWN on the other places. If you are not 100% sure please send a side view picture with the APPLICATION." [quote source]
NKC - "National Kennel Club"
Seems to register unknown pedigree dogs with *inspection*. NKC will register dogs that meet the 7/8 purity requirement. They hold "NKC Sanctioned Events".
PCI ~ Purebred Canine International Registry Service"
If a purebred dog does not have any registration, they will register the dog after a person sends three (3) close-up color photos (front and each side view) with a completed PCI registration application. which may or may not be registered with any other kennel club or those that have no previous history of their Sire or Dam.
Update: It looks like "PCI" cannot be found on the internet, now. Hmmmm.
SLR ~ "Silver Labrador Registry"
A group of so-called "silver" or "silver-factored" Labrador Retriever breeders created their own registry "the only one of its kind-EVER!" What these breeders are calling a "silver" or "gray" Lab, is NOT a color recognized by respected canine Registries!
"Silver" breeders may only register AKC Labrador Retrievers having this "silver" color, as a dilute "chocolate" if they wish to register with the American Kennel Club!
Some "silver" Labrador Retriever breeders are now advertising their dogs as "titled", or even "multi-titled". However, these "titles" are NOT in AKC or Canadian Kennel Club conformation competition ! Instead that "title' is for " CD" ( "Companion Dog" ) ~ which is merely a beginning obedience title! NOT a CH title !!!
Sometimes, one might even find a "silver" lab being toted as an "international CH" / "multinational CH " (see above: IABCA)
You will NOT find a "silver" (registered as a dilute chocolate) Labrador Retriever titled as a AKC "CHAMPION", or Canadian Kennel Club "CHAMPION".
UABR ~ "United All Breed Registry"
Advertises free registration of adults when you register a litter. Caters to the commercial breeders. Started "Gold Label Pets" for commercial operations, and promotes retailers.
UCI ~ "Universal Kennel Club International" (associated with "IABCA" )
Caters to the commercial dog industry and promises "Complete Privacy Protection" for all breeders. Does not have a Code Of Ethics and brags about that. Does not currently impose any fines or penalties upon its members for violations of its policies, rules, regulations, guidelines, programs, restrictions and systems. Registers "mixed" breeds for breeding purposes. Will register unknown pedigree. UKCI does not post their "Foundation Stock Registration Application" for dogs never registered/ lost registration online for you to view. If you wish to see what requirements for registry (if any) that is needed to register any dog with them ~ e-mail them and ask them for this application if you wish to view it for yourself.
WKC ~ "World Kennel Club"
Registers ALL dogs that are *pure-bred*, which may or may not be registered with any other kennel club or those that have no previous history of their Sire or Dam.
WWKC ~ "World Wide Kennel Club"
Will register dogs that are registered with *any other* kennel club.
USDA ~ "United States Department of Agriculture"
Registered puppies come from "commercial breeding farms" ~ commonly referred to as large scale "Puppy Mills". These "commercial breeding farms" sell to stores and brokers, and this is commonly where pet store owners get their puppies from.
Advertises that over 3000 adult breeding canines are registered each week. Only registry endorsed by Petland. Caters to commercial breeders. Refers puppy seekers to pet stores.
AFDSB ~ "American Field Dog Stud Book"
Besides registry service, they have a lot of advertising of products and certain kennels. AFDSB registers sporting breeds that are NOT recognized by the AKC.
The Field Dog Stud Book "registers all breeds of dogs records registered names, breeding background, colors, ages, sex documents ownership duplicates lost registration certificates and enrolls litters. Please give us a call or E-mail us and we'll send you easy-to-fill-out registration application forms today". [quote source]
APR ~ "American Purebred Registry"
Will register unknown pedigree dogs/cats, does not sponsor any shows, no proof of purebred required.
APRI ~ "America's Pet Registry ~ Inc." also acquired AKR ~ Academic Kennel Records
Advertises free registration for commercial breeders. Non Profit "dedicated to the preservation of the professional pet industry", dogs and cats. Founded by retailers of pets (commercial breeders and resellers). You have no recourse as a buyer of a puppy bought thru them if the seller does not want you to know their contact information such as phone number, etc.
ARU- "Animal Registry Unlimited"
Guarantees they will register your pets of unknown pedigree, encourages cross breeding. Special prices for bulk.
CKC ~ "Continental Kennel Club" ( DO NOT confuse with the true CKC ~ the Canadian Kennel Club ! )
"Continental Kennel Club" will recognize a cross between any two purebred dogs, and will issue a registration certificate on their offspring. These crosses are not registered as purebred dogs but are registered as the offspring of purebred dogs. "CONTINENTAL KENNEL CLUB accepts registration applications and issues certificates based on the honor and integrity of the owner/breeder applicants, and CKC accepts no responsibility for any inaccurate, false, or fraudulent information submitted on registration applications". "Continental Kennel Club" sponsors no conformation shows or championships that have a dog completing against others (their website claims that the dog receives a "evaluation").
"Continental Kennel Club" also gives big fee discounts to large kennels registering lots of dogs ( such as "commercial breeding farms" ~ also known as "Puppy Mills" ). Will register dogs not registered with other recognized registries. "If other kennel club papers are not available, the dog owner must provide two witnesses who can verify the accuracy and truthfulness of the information listed on the application". [quote source]
CRCS ~ "Canine Registration and Certification Services"
Caters to commercial breeders. ~ CRCS has apparently removed/lost their website presence. Two cached pages from Google search engine.
DRA ~ "Dog Registry of America" Formerly named "U.S. Kennel Club"
No DNA certification, registers unregistered/unknown/mixed pedigree dogs, brags about added value for sellers and confidentiality. "Tired of registration & documentation hassles? Starting your own blood line? Lost or never had papers? Developing new breeds? Breed not recognized? DRA Registers all purebred dogs." [quote source]
FIC ~ "Federation of International Canines"
Special bulk discount for volume breeders. If a purebred dog does not have any registration, they will register application for the dog, on a person's signature ~ "I (we) do hereby certify that I (we) am (are) the true owner(s) of the dog described on this application and that all information on this application is true and correct, to the best of my (our) knowledge and belief." [quote source]
IABCA ~ "International All Breed Canine Association of America" (associated with "UCI")
IABCA: "Domestic canines of unknown ancestry that are used in the development of a breed shall be permitted for registration purposes within the Foundation Registry only. Non-domestic canines , pure species or non-domestic x non-domestic hybrids are considered non-domestic and are to be registered in IPDBA's affiliate for non-domestic canines, the International Progressive Exotic Breeders' Alliance (IPEBA), Canine Division." International Progressive Dog Breeders' Alliance (IPDBA) Article V- General Registration.
A *International Champion* title on a pedigree - is NOT an AKC CHAMPION title! Take note how easily these "International Champion" titles are "awarded" by IABCA, with NO competition against other dogs!. The *International Champion* titles you might sometimes see being advertised by some breeders, were obtained by that dog never having traveled outside of the United States, nor even out of state in most cases! Many owners of dogs that could not hope to win a *champion* title in a registry such as AKC, will still seek to have their dog appear to have a *champion* title of some sort.
NAPDR ~ "North American Purebred Dog Registry"
A Dog that does not have registration papers or proof of pedigree may be registered with NAPDR. "A Purebred dog that does not have registration papers may be registered with the NAPDR. If you are 100% sure of the dog's breed fill out the information you know and write UNKNOWN on the other places. If you are not 100% sure please send a side view picture with the APPLICATION." [quote source]
NKC - "National Kennel Club"
Seems to register unknown pedigree dogs with *inspection*. NKC will register dogs that meet the 7/8 purity requirement. They hold "NKC Sanctioned Events".
PCI ~ Purebred Canine International Registry Service"
If a purebred dog does not have any registration, they will register the dog after a person sends three (3) close-up color photos (front and each side view) with a completed PCI registration application. which may or may not be registered with any other kennel club or those that have no previous history of their Sire or Dam.
Update: It looks like "PCI" cannot be found on the internet, now. Hmmmm.
SLR ~ "Silver Labrador Registry"
A group of so-called "silver" or "silver-factored" Labrador Retriever breeders created their own registry "the only one of its kind-EVER!" What these breeders are calling a "silver" or "gray" Lab, is NOT a color recognized by respected canine Registries!
"Silver" breeders may only register AKC Labrador Retrievers having this "silver" color, as a dilute "chocolate" if they wish to register with the American Kennel Club!
Some "silver" Labrador Retriever breeders are now advertising their dogs as "titled", or even "multi-titled". However, these "titles" are NOT in AKC or Canadian Kennel Club conformation competition ! Instead that "title' is for " CD" ( "Companion Dog" ) ~ which is merely a beginning obedience title! NOT a CH title !!!
Sometimes, one might even find a "silver" lab being toted as an "international CH" / "multinational CH " (see above: IABCA)
You will NOT find a "silver" (registered as a dilute chocolate) Labrador Retriever titled as a AKC "CHAMPION", or Canadian Kennel Club "CHAMPION".
UABR ~ "United All Breed Registry"
Advertises free registration of adults when you register a litter. Caters to the commercial breeders. Started "Gold Label Pets" for commercial operations, and promotes retailers.
UCI ~ "Universal Kennel Club International" (associated with "IABCA" )
Caters to the commercial dog industry and promises "Complete Privacy Protection" for all breeders. Does not have a Code Of Ethics and brags about that. Does not currently impose any fines or penalties upon its members for violations of its policies, rules, regulations, guidelines, programs, restrictions and systems. Registers "mixed" breeds for breeding purposes. Will register unknown pedigree. UKCI does not post their "Foundation Stock Registration Application" for dogs never registered/ lost registration online for you to view. If you wish to see what requirements for registry (if any) that is needed to register any dog with them ~ e-mail them and ask them for this application if you wish to view it for yourself.
WKC ~ "World Kennel Club"
Registers ALL dogs that are *pure-bred*, which may or may not be registered with any other kennel club or those that have no previous history of their Sire or Dam.
WWKC ~ "World Wide Kennel Club"
Will register dogs that are registered with *any other* kennel club.
USDA ~ "United States Department of Agriculture"
Registered puppies come from "commercial breeding farms" ~ commonly referred to as large scale "Puppy Mills". These "commercial breeding farms" sell to stores and brokers, and this is commonly where pet store owners get their puppies from.
Anyone that could prove there dogs breed true to type would be welcomed.
The AKC are as concerned with lineage as they are with conformation. Breeding true to type proves nothing in terms of ancestry, documented pedigree and DNA testing does. If your dog is registered with anything other than AKC, United Kennel Club or the Canadian Kennel Club, the chances of your pup being bred by an irresponsible breeder rises dramatically.
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Their reputation for not showing or working their dogs in accredited competition?
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Registering any animal allows for permanent record-keeping. If a congenital disease is found to have derived from one particular animal it is a lot easier to eradicate with thorough authenticated records than it is relying on the honesty of individuals. Studying bloodlines gives the new owner more information about how it is likely to behave, what its temperament should be and other genetic characteristics. I know what bloodlines I want in a SAR Bloodhound. Putting two or three years into training a mystery dog is a gamble. It's the same as buying an AQHA horse rather than a nag at the sale barn. If you know the bloodlines, you know what purpose it was bred for and if you have a particular purpose in mind the animal has a better chance of fulfilling that role. I know if someone is trying to sell me an APRI Maltipoo it was bred for sitting around and being fluffy, anything else is a bonus.
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Firstly, the process doesn't typically work that way. Usually a dog is either bought with a spay/neuter contract or with full breeding rights, there is no 'going back and buying rights'. Of course it is about quality! Spay/neuter contracts are intended to prevent pet quality dogs from being bred; their offspring cannot be registered. Instead of allowing members to breed any old crap, the AKC give their breeders the opportunity to restrict which dogs can be bred from and their litter registered. Of course someone could buy a dog on a spay/neuter contract and register the puppies elsewhere, but we've already gone over the importance of avoiding those other registries.
The AKC are as concerned with lineage as they are with conformation. Breeding true to type proves nothing in terms of ancestry, documented pedigree and DNA testing does. If your dog is registered with anything other than AKC, United Kennel Club or the Canadian Kennel Club, the chances of your pup being bred by an irresponsible breeder rises dramatically.
Quote:
Their reputation for not showing or working their dogs in accredited competition?
Quote:
Registering any animal allows for permanent record-keeping. If a congenital disease is found to have derived from one particular animal it is a lot easier to eradicate with thorough authenticated records than it is relying on the honesty of individuals. Studying bloodlines gives the new owner more information about how it is likely to behave, what its temperament should be and other genetic characteristics. I know what bloodlines I want in a SAR Bloodhound. Putting two or three years into training a mystery dog is a gamble. It's the same as buying an AQHA horse rather than a nag at the sale barn. If you know the bloodlines, you know what purpose it was bred for and if you have a particular purpose in mind the animal has a better chance of fulfilling that role. I know if someone is trying to sell me an APRI Maltipoo it was bred for sitting around and being fluffy, anything else is a bonus.
Quote:
Firstly, the process doesn't typically work that way. Usually a dog is either bought with a spay/neuter contract or with full breeding rights, there is no 'going back and buying rights'. Of course it is about quality! Spay/neuter contracts are intended to prevent pet quality dogs from being bred; their offspring cannot be registered. Instead of allowing members to breed any old crap, the AKC give their breeders the opportunity to restrict which dogs can be bred from and their litter registered. Of course someone could buy a dog on a spay/neuter contract and register the puppies elsewhere, but we've already gone over the importance of avoiding those other registries.
Actually most start out with CKC (continental) dogs till they can trade around an get AKC breeding stock. Some just buy in to the AKC from the start. Yes they do DNA but that only proves the parents are who they say they are. They claim they check kennels but I have yet to meet someone that has been inspected. Again most if not all puppy mills I know only have AKC dogs because it makes them more money. I get dogs all the time to re home because the puppy mill they were at stepped up to AKC dogs. Just go hang out a a feed store an talk to the people buying truck loads of dog feed. People are always talking dogs. I grew up around it so its nothing new to me but I still sit an lesion.
I go to flea markets all the time too an 75% of the dog booths say AKC.
The hunting dog trials are usually open class because hunters want the best hunter not just the best hunter allowed in. Here in the south anyway.
Besides a good breeder does not have to show his dogs to get a good reputation. There dogs sell there self by doing what they are bread to do. A hunter will tell everyone how good or bad his dog is an a family that has a happy healthy house pet will tell everyone too. My nephew works for a breeder an trainer of retrievers. His dogs are not AKC an he gets $3k a dog on him an his dogs reputation. No advertising at all an keeps a staff of 2 people.
Sure, showing may help your wallet an it could help your breeding program but with many breeds showing is destroying the breed.
I like my pugs the way they look now. They look nothing like the ones I see at shows but they look just like the ones in very old panting. I breed for health, temperament an then that look. I dont claim to breed to AKC standard. I tell everyone I dont. I can point them to someone that does if thats what they want. Wont hurt me in any way. I produce way less than demand now.
An just for the record if you have to pay more for breeding rights you are having to buy your way in. An it is usually way more.
Being part of any regestery dose not make you a good nor bad breeder. Just like not being a part of any regestery dose not make you a good nor bad breeder. The AKC is just what its name says. Its a club. I dont agree with what they do so im fine not being a part of there club.
I go to flea markets all the time too an 75% of the dog booths say AKC.
The hunting dog trials are usually open class because hunters want the best hunter not just the best hunter allowed in. Here in the south anyway.
Besides a good breeder does not have to show his dogs to get a good reputation. There dogs sell there self by doing what they are bread to do. A hunter will tell everyone how good or bad his dog is an a family that has a happy healthy house pet will tell everyone too. My nephew works for a breeder an trainer of retrievers. His dogs are not AKC an he gets $3k a dog on him an his dogs reputation. No advertising at all an keeps a staff of 2 people.
Sure, showing may help your wallet an it could help your breeding program but with many breeds showing is destroying the breed.
I like my pugs the way they look now. They look nothing like the ones I see at shows but they look just like the ones in very old panting. I breed for health, temperament an then that look. I dont claim to breed to AKC standard. I tell everyone I dont. I can point them to someone that does if thats what they want. Wont hurt me in any way. I produce way less than demand now.
An just for the record if you have to pay more for breeding rights you are having to buy your way in. An it is usually way more.
Being part of any regestery dose not make you a good nor bad breeder. Just like not being a part of any regestery dose not make you a good nor bad breeder. The AKC is just what its name says. Its a club. I dont agree with what they do so im fine not being a part of there club.
breed for health huh?
what health testing do you do?
the AKC are a business, YES there in it to make money, if they wernt they wouldnt still be around...
they are also NOT A guarentee...for every good akc breeder there are 50 more who simply bought into the registry who use it as a selling point...
THOS however are not RESPONSIBLE or RESPECTABLE breeders.
the AKC doesnt and have has claimed to ensure your not buying from a BYB, they encourage people looking to buy to RESERCH breeders, find a GOOD breeder, one who properly health tests (and no some blood work and a check over from your vet doesnt count...)
one who adheres to standard...breeding dogs that look like there supposed to (this is a point of content for me because i feel many akc judges judge for the extreem, which isnt doing many breeds many favors)
one who socilizes properly, raises healthy SOUND parents for Healthy sound litters.
GOOD akc breeders dont use akc reg as a selling point...
they simply use it as a secure way of tracking a dogs liniage and evaluating breeding stock...plan and simple...
akc is NOT a guarentee anymore than you saying your dogs are healthy is...
true mills, dont use any registration at all...
instead the brokers (the people that buy the puppies from the mills to ship them out to petstores, like HUNTE and LAMBRIAR BUY the registration, true MILL puppies are usually registered with scam registries, registries which will register anything, pure, loook pure or mixed...
the few that are AKC registered...well as i said before, those using akc registration as a SELLING point, arnt good breeders...
and as i said before AKC state clearly that akc registration does NOT mean the breeder is automatically a good one...
you MUST do your reserch as a buyer.
Back Yard Breeders...a popular term in dog circles for the average joe who breeds their dogs for whatever reason...
thats different.
many BYB's have akc reg dogs...
and just as i alreayd said...doesnt make them good breeders...just means the puppies are pure bred...
back yard breeders typically dont do anything with thier dogs...there simply "pets" who breed because it would be nice for fluffy to have some babies, or good for the kids to see the miracle of life, or well my dogs are awesome so they have to be bred.
most bybs dont health test...and again im not talking "oh my vet says my dogs healthy as a horse", im talking REAL health testing, cerf grading, optigen testing, pen hip and elbow, full pannels...this things are just typically not done by these people breeding their dogs who arnt activly involved in the show community...
however they SHOULD be...
id personally be considered a back yard breeder by some because i no longer show, i simply dont enjoy the show ring and dont agree with the extreems the ring is taking in some breeds...
HOWEVER...i still Opti, Cerf, Have knees done and a miryad of other health testing making me better than a typical back yard breeder...
i can say honestly that my breeding dogs ARE healthy as horses and not just cause my vet said so...
I also do MORE to PROVE my dogs worthy...
what makes yours worthy? im sure there wonderfull family members, sweet pets, and its great that they can run around and play, (i know 3 akc champion pugs who hike 10 miles a day, and 7 who have taken top honors in agility...so im not seeing your point on how yours are better because they can run for hours...a TRULY well bred pug can too...)
i dont show my dogs because i dont like the atmoosphere of the ring...
i do howveer have 2 independant judges check my dogs over for faults...(NO dog is physically perfect, and no matter how objective a person thinks they are...you cannot see your pet objectivly)
my breeding dogs prove their temperment, they must pass their canine good citizen to be even concidered for breeding, from there i do therapy training, a dog with an unstable temperment cannot be a therapy dog...
i prove my dogs otherways too...i take what the breed was bred for and prove that they can still do it as for me a breed should never be so over done it cannot perform the "job" it was designed for.
a well bred chihuahua should be the ultimate in gentle nature, they are lapdogs, thats their job, compainionship, so id never breed a chihuahua who is incredibly hyper, cant sit still for 5 minutes or doesnt like to be handled...they should be happy playfull dogs, but they also shoudlnt have the drive of a jack russel.
the chinese crested is a ratter...plain and simple...there bred to run and rat...
so i run my dogs on a lure course, i also do earth trials with them (just like you would a working JRT)
not only sound structure, but sound health, temperment and DUTY make a good breeding dog.
all those BAD akc breeders you know, are just that BAD breeders using the AKC as a selling point...
all those GREAT breeders you know who have no registered dogs...well they may be wonderfull breeders...what health tests do they do? how do they PROVE their dogs worthy of breeding? that goes for you too, what health testing, what trials? what makes your pugs "champions" without being shown...do you do obedience? CGC? Agility? what testing do you do, health and otherwise?
i know some GREAT breeders who dont have any registration on their dogs, but like me, they do other things to prove their dogs worthy of passing on their genetic line, one frined breeds german shepards for search and rescue, she doesnt show, and she doesnt have any reg on her gsds, however her dogs perform the tasks they were bred to do, she attends herding trails with them, CGC, and doesnt breed a serch and rescue potential litter unless both parents are search and rescue dogs (have the correct drive and temperment) she breeds for sound structure, and health tests out the wazoo (what good is a serch and rescue dog if its hips go at 4 yrs old?)
i also know some HORRIBLE breeders who have show dogs...one woman has 23 champions all in the KENNEL in her back yard, the dogs do nothing all day but sit in their kennels, she doesnt prove them anything other than structurally, no health testing, no temperment testing, they arnt loved as pets...
AKC is just a registration system...
its NOT a guarentee...
GOOD breeders charge more for their puppies because its cost more to bring those puppies into this world, between showing the parents (be it in agility or the show ring) health testing (which literally can cost in the thousands for some breeds and should be done every year) training, temperment screening, equiptment, TIME...
A GOOD breeder doesnt make any money after you factor the cost in producing, raising and vetting a litter...any breeder making a PROFIT, is likely NOT a good one!
a GOOD breeder wont breed a female untill shes at least 2 yrs old, a GOOD breeder wont breed a female unless THEY are looking for something specific in a litter, a GOOD breeder will either skip a heat between breedings or retire their girls early and a GOOD breeder stops breeding their female when she hits the retirement age (for chihuahuas thats 6, in larger breeds that could be much younger!)
BAD breeders no matter what reg if any there using as a selling point
(TEACUP, Doll faced, extreem, pocket, royal ect are all BUZZ terms used to sell puppies for more cash...your friend selling TEACUP chihuahaus is just as bad as that guy using AKC as a selling term...) will either sell their puppies for a small fortune because they know they can prey on the uneducated and those with more money than sense...
OR they sell their puppies cheap...because 1: it didnt cost them as much to produce the litter and 2: well i can breed fluffy every 6 months and get 6 puppies so i dont have to sell them for as much and ill still make a profit, typically breeding back to back, heat over heat...
im rambling, and hope i got my point across...
saying the AKC is evil and all AKC breeders are in it for the money is like saying "well its red it must be ketchup..."
saying your breeder aquaintences are great breeders and dont register, yet not stating WHY their good breeders is like saying "the sky is green because i say so..."
just because its what you THINK, it doesnt nessicarily make it correct, its an OPINION, not a fact...
your breeder aquantences could be no better than puppy mills...
and while were on the subject of puppymills...you do know that puppymills are HUGE mass production facilities that breeds for petstores correct?
a puppymill isnt joe down the road with his 3 akc dogs who breeds every couple of years and gets $1000 a puppy...
a puppymill is a mass production facility, many dogs crammed into cages, no human interaction at all, lack of good food, grooming vet care and space, forced to breed every heat untilll they can no longer breed then disposed of...
puppymills will occasionally do buisness direct with a petstore, however they TYPICALLY do buisness with corporations like hunte who buy the puppies form the mills for pennies on the dollar who then RE-SELL the puppies for a profit to pet stores...who then mark them up up to 300% for the general public.
the large puppymills tend to be in PA and other predominantly amish areas. infact the amish make up the largest percent of puppymills in the country.
as for chihuahuas and their heads...because i couldnt have strayed any further off topic to rant to someone whos likely not going to even read let alone listen lol...
crazy fowl, your little one is adorable...
he?s got a nice little dome, not quite as high as id like to see, but still a good stop and a nice rise, but his muzzle is a little too long to be quite there...
hes tiny but definatly from the picture looks to have the longer leaner "deer type" body, but his head id say is halfway between
thats more like what id look for in an apple head...as i said, your baby has a nice stop and the beginnings of a nice dome but its not quite there...
is a nice example of a ch akc wowie, shes a long haired but it gives you a good idea of the breed, they should be quite stocky little dogs nice big chest...even when tiny they should look solid (i call mine "tanks" lol)
which is a huge difference from the long slim legs and none descript head of the "deer type" chihuahuas that are being carted around holliwood by folks with more money than sense...
the "deer type" is easier to breed over all, due to their slimer body structire they weigh LESS than a chihuahua bred to standard of the same height and weight...making them more popular in a world where "it needs to fit in my purse" (rolls eyes)
my smallest chihuahua is 3lbs full grown...hes itty bitty but overall looks nice and stocky for his petit size...
if you placed a "deer type" chihuahua of the same height next to him it would way about 1/2 what he weighs simply because of "less build."
your wowie is a cutie though, love chocolates
personally...
when im looking for a dog to add to my family (with or without breeding rights) AKC is simply 3 letters which means i can pull my dogs liniage...
what im REALY looking for is a memmeber in GOOD STANDING of the national breed club, they adhere to a strict code of ethics, breeding standards and rigourous inspections...
what health testing do you do?
the AKC are a business, YES there in it to make money, if they wernt they wouldnt still be around...
they are also NOT A guarentee...for every good akc breeder there are 50 more who simply bought into the registry who use it as a selling point...
THOS however are not RESPONSIBLE or RESPECTABLE breeders.
the AKC doesnt and have has claimed to ensure your not buying from a BYB, they encourage people looking to buy to RESERCH breeders, find a GOOD breeder, one who properly health tests (and no some blood work and a check over from your vet doesnt count...)
one who adheres to standard...breeding dogs that look like there supposed to (this is a point of content for me because i feel many akc judges judge for the extreem, which isnt doing many breeds many favors)
one who socilizes properly, raises healthy SOUND parents for Healthy sound litters.
GOOD akc breeders dont use akc reg as a selling point...
they simply use it as a secure way of tracking a dogs liniage and evaluating breeding stock...plan and simple...
akc is NOT a guarentee anymore than you saying your dogs are healthy is...
true mills, dont use any registration at all...
instead the brokers (the people that buy the puppies from the mills to ship them out to petstores, like HUNTE and LAMBRIAR BUY the registration, true MILL puppies are usually registered with scam registries, registries which will register anything, pure, loook pure or mixed...
the few that are AKC registered...well as i said before, those using akc registration as a SELLING point, arnt good breeders...
and as i said before AKC state clearly that akc registration does NOT mean the breeder is automatically a good one...
you MUST do your reserch as a buyer.
Back Yard Breeders...a popular term in dog circles for the average joe who breeds their dogs for whatever reason...
thats different.
many BYB's have akc reg dogs...
and just as i alreayd said...doesnt make them good breeders...just means the puppies are pure bred...
back yard breeders typically dont do anything with thier dogs...there simply "pets" who breed because it would be nice for fluffy to have some babies, or good for the kids to see the miracle of life, or well my dogs are awesome so they have to be bred.
most bybs dont health test...and again im not talking "oh my vet says my dogs healthy as a horse", im talking REAL health testing, cerf grading, optigen testing, pen hip and elbow, full pannels...this things are just typically not done by these people breeding their dogs who arnt activly involved in the show community...
however they SHOULD be...
id personally be considered a back yard breeder by some because i no longer show, i simply dont enjoy the show ring and dont agree with the extreems the ring is taking in some breeds...
HOWEVER...i still Opti, Cerf, Have knees done and a miryad of other health testing making me better than a typical back yard breeder...
i can say honestly that my breeding dogs ARE healthy as horses and not just cause my vet said so...
I also do MORE to PROVE my dogs worthy...
what makes yours worthy? im sure there wonderfull family members, sweet pets, and its great that they can run around and play, (i know 3 akc champion pugs who hike 10 miles a day, and 7 who have taken top honors in agility...so im not seeing your point on how yours are better because they can run for hours...a TRULY well bred pug can too...)
i dont show my dogs because i dont like the atmoosphere of the ring...
i do howveer have 2 independant judges check my dogs over for faults...(NO dog is physically perfect, and no matter how objective a person thinks they are...you cannot see your pet objectivly)
my breeding dogs prove their temperment, they must pass their canine good citizen to be even concidered for breeding, from there i do therapy training, a dog with an unstable temperment cannot be a therapy dog...
i prove my dogs otherways too...i take what the breed was bred for and prove that they can still do it as for me a breed should never be so over done it cannot perform the "job" it was designed for.
a well bred chihuahua should be the ultimate in gentle nature, they are lapdogs, thats their job, compainionship, so id never breed a chihuahua who is incredibly hyper, cant sit still for 5 minutes or doesnt like to be handled...they should be happy playfull dogs, but they also shoudlnt have the drive of a jack russel.
the chinese crested is a ratter...plain and simple...there bred to run and rat...
so i run my dogs on a lure course, i also do earth trials with them (just like you would a working JRT)
not only sound structure, but sound health, temperment and DUTY make a good breeding dog.
all those BAD akc breeders you know, are just that BAD breeders using the AKC as a selling point...
all those GREAT breeders you know who have no registered dogs...well they may be wonderfull breeders...what health tests do they do? how do they PROVE their dogs worthy of breeding? that goes for you too, what health testing, what trials? what makes your pugs "champions" without being shown...do you do obedience? CGC? Agility? what testing do you do, health and otherwise?
i know some GREAT breeders who dont have any registration on their dogs, but like me, they do other things to prove their dogs worthy of passing on their genetic line, one frined breeds german shepards for search and rescue, she doesnt show, and she doesnt have any reg on her gsds, however her dogs perform the tasks they were bred to do, she attends herding trails with them, CGC, and doesnt breed a serch and rescue potential litter unless both parents are search and rescue dogs (have the correct drive and temperment) she breeds for sound structure, and health tests out the wazoo (what good is a serch and rescue dog if its hips go at 4 yrs old?)
i also know some HORRIBLE breeders who have show dogs...one woman has 23 champions all in the KENNEL in her back yard, the dogs do nothing all day but sit in their kennels, she doesnt prove them anything other than structurally, no health testing, no temperment testing, they arnt loved as pets...
AKC is just a registration system...
its NOT a guarentee...
GOOD breeders charge more for their puppies because its cost more to bring those puppies into this world, between showing the parents (be it in agility or the show ring) health testing (which literally can cost in the thousands for some breeds and should be done every year) training, temperment screening, equiptment, TIME...
A GOOD breeder doesnt make any money after you factor the cost in producing, raising and vetting a litter...any breeder making a PROFIT, is likely NOT a good one!
a GOOD breeder wont breed a female untill shes at least 2 yrs old, a GOOD breeder wont breed a female unless THEY are looking for something specific in a litter, a GOOD breeder will either skip a heat between breedings or retire their girls early and a GOOD breeder stops breeding their female when she hits the retirement age (for chihuahuas thats 6, in larger breeds that could be much younger!)
BAD breeders no matter what reg if any there using as a selling point
(TEACUP, Doll faced, extreem, pocket, royal ect are all BUZZ terms used to sell puppies for more cash...your friend selling TEACUP chihuahaus is just as bad as that guy using AKC as a selling term...) will either sell their puppies for a small fortune because they know they can prey on the uneducated and those with more money than sense...
OR they sell their puppies cheap...because 1: it didnt cost them as much to produce the litter and 2: well i can breed fluffy every 6 months and get 6 puppies so i dont have to sell them for as much and ill still make a profit, typically breeding back to back, heat over heat...
im rambling, and hope i got my point across...
saying the AKC is evil and all AKC breeders are in it for the money is like saying "well its red it must be ketchup..."
saying your breeder aquaintences are great breeders and dont register, yet not stating WHY their good breeders is like saying "the sky is green because i say so..."
just because its what you THINK, it doesnt nessicarily make it correct, its an OPINION, not a fact...
your breeder aquantences could be no better than puppy mills...
and while were on the subject of puppymills...you do know that puppymills are HUGE mass production facilities that breeds for petstores correct?
a puppymill isnt joe down the road with his 3 akc dogs who breeds every couple of years and gets $1000 a puppy...
a puppymill is a mass production facility, many dogs crammed into cages, no human interaction at all, lack of good food, grooming vet care and space, forced to breed every heat untilll they can no longer breed then disposed of...
puppymills will occasionally do buisness direct with a petstore, however they TYPICALLY do buisness with corporations like hunte who buy the puppies form the mills for pennies on the dollar who then RE-SELL the puppies for a profit to pet stores...who then mark them up up to 300% for the general public.
the large puppymills tend to be in PA and other predominantly amish areas. infact the amish make up the largest percent of puppymills in the country.
as for chihuahuas and their heads...because i couldnt have strayed any further off topic to rant to someone whos likely not going to even read let alone listen lol...
crazy fowl, your little one is adorable...
he?s got a nice little dome, not quite as high as id like to see, but still a good stop and a nice rise, but his muzzle is a little too long to be quite there...
hes tiny but definatly from the picture looks to have the longer leaner "deer type" body, but his head id say is halfway between
thats more like what id look for in an apple head...as i said, your baby has a nice stop and the beginnings of a nice dome but its not quite there...
is a nice example of a ch akc wowie, shes a long haired but it gives you a good idea of the breed, they should be quite stocky little dogs nice big chest...even when tiny they should look solid (i call mine "tanks" lol)
which is a huge difference from the long slim legs and none descript head of the "deer type" chihuahuas that are being carted around holliwood by folks with more money than sense...
the "deer type" is easier to breed over all, due to their slimer body structire they weigh LESS than a chihuahua bred to standard of the same height and weight...making them more popular in a world where "it needs to fit in my purse" (rolls eyes)
my smallest chihuahua is 3lbs full grown...hes itty bitty but overall looks nice and stocky for his petit size...
if you placed a "deer type" chihuahua of the same height next to him it would way about 1/2 what he weighs simply because of "less build."
your wowie is a cutie though, love chocolates
personally...
when im looking for a dog to add to my family (with or without breeding rights) AKC is simply 3 letters which means i can pull my dogs liniage...
what im REALY looking for is a memmeber in GOOD STANDING of the national breed club, they adhere to a strict code of ethics, breeding standards and rigourous inspections...
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