Chocolate Serama Breeders - dun and blue can be included here as well

[smoothmule]

It's good to hear that we are making progress on understanding the pumpkin gene. I love the coloration. And I didn't know there was a splash version of it, that it acts like andalusian blue and dun. those birds are, in fact, looking very much like the soft tan/gray chick I have. that explains his coloring!

I don't think we are making any progress on understanding the pumpkin gene. There is no pumpkin gene that I'm aware of. It's kind of like the mille's, more complex than dun and chocolate who actually have a "gene" to make the color. It may be possible to make a mille with the pumpkin and it may not. I don't know. When you start adding that many more genes to an already complex pattern like Mille de Fleur, I'm pretty sure it's going to be a wreck. I know it can be done with dun and chocolate and blue. It's already been done. So why not go to those sources and get the color to cross to your perfected mille's that you already have?

The Mille pattern isn't a pattern I understand that well but to keep from totally starting over, you probably need a dun or chocolate in the pattern that is already present in the Mille and hope it doesn't get scrambled in the process of putting it all together. You really need Henk to walk you through this and show you what a dun mille looks like, it's gorgeous

 

[Lorilyn Farms]

Does chocolate always have the lighter feather shaft? Do black feathers have lighter shafts? wOULD THAT BE A WAY TO TELL APART BLACK AND BROWN?

 

[Henk69]

Does chocolate always have the lighter feather shaft? Do black feathers have lighter shafts? wOULD THAT BE A WAY TO TELL APART BLACK AND BROWN?

Best look at the wingtips/flights. Chocolates and duns are dramatically lighter there.

 

[HeritageSeekers]

The seramas I have are pumpkin colored and possibly khaki colored. They are all roos. I got rid of all my d'uccle roos so that I would have nothing but d'uccle/serama crosses. I'm trying to figure out the pumpkin gene and also introduce the dun and silver gene into my d'uccles. I'm getting a ton of eggs from these girls right now. Their coloring is regular millie fleur, blue millie fleur, gold neck (two blue genes), colombian. These are the roos I'm using and the hens. I have all their eggs in the incubator right now and expect the first to hatch in a few days. Since serama color genetics are all over the place, I'll keep an eye out for black, but not sure about the type that will result. The combs are similiar, but d-uccles don't have wattles, and their feet, at least mine, are heavily feathered.
















I love being a crazy chicken lady! I'm just glad I have the space to allow them to free range safely.

OHhhhhhh my! How gorgeous are these? How do I make that SUPER DUPER sunny color? I think I've found my Serama color project!

Absolutely stunning!

I'm dying.... Must... have..... this.... color..................................................

 

[HeritageSeekers]

Nice rooster Steve, looks chocolate duckwing pattern to me. You're right to test breed with a black hen to prove it. Until you can test breed them, many patterned chocolates can't really be confirmed.

Julie, the one up front does "look" chocolate to me too. I'm not as sure about the one on the far left. Are they from the same parents? Did you hatch them? If neither then hen nor the rooster was chocolate, you have to assume the father is a chocolate carrier. If the chocolate is out of 2 non-chocolate parents, you can also assume that they are pullets because a chocolate carrier rooster cannot produce a chocolate cockerel with a non-chocolate hen.

I Love working with the chocolate gene. It's so easy once you know what you have for sure and predictable. You can call them anything you want but if they don't breed as a chocolate should, they are not truly chocolate. That is the true test of the recessive, sex linked chocolates.

Just remember, brown does not mean chocolate. Brown is a phenotype, that means the color looks brown. Chocolate is a gene that makes a particulr shade of brown, generally dark chocolate brown. Most of the paler ones I've seen labeled as light chocolate are often not chocolate at all. A paler shade would mean there is something besides chocolate diluting the black in addition to chocolate. I have bred enough other dilutes with my chocolates to know there are not many possibilities to make "real" chocolate appear lighter visually. The only thing I've hatched so far that will actually do that is chocolate plus blue and it's an odd color, not the milk chocolate I see some people claim is chocolate. I am suspicious that some of those pale chocolates are not chocolate but red based with genes that change the way the red appears and I have hatched some of those, they have been pumpkin diluted. In the games, the pumpkin gene will make light golden with yellow hackles and sometimes a chocolate looking tail but they are not chocolate. The cocopop color is pumpkin dilute, not chocolate. It's on a wheaten base and has lacing. The combination appears chocolatey and the name cocopop seems to indicate something chocolate. Also, I've seen so many labeled cocopop this and cocopop that, that I'm pretty sure they are not all the same as far as genes.

Just an update.. I've been awfully quiet since I got my chocolate bird. I did do the test mating and indeed proved him out to be a silver chocolate. So excited! I've now just got in a new black cockerel (with gold in his hackles and saddle) with amazing type and a "midnight blue" laced hen to add into the mix from Jerry S. Should be a fun project to play with. Anyways... thank you everyone for your help. I'm slow but learning. You gals/guys rock!

 

[Lorilyn Farms]

OHhhhhhh my! How gorgeous are these? How do I make that SUPER DUPER sunny color? I think I've found my Serama color project!

Absolutely stunning!

I'm dying.... Must... have..... this.... color..................................................

Pumpkin!!!

 

[[email protected]]

Can someone please tell me what color my hen is? I thought she was black but she is not she doesn't have black feathers. They are a dark bluish grey and she has some chocolate colored brown on some of her feathers. Sometimes it so hard to tell the colors of them. My birds do carry the blue and chocolate genes I hatched her from an egg.

 

[SashaT]

Is there a handy-dandy color breeding chart somewhere? Also, if I bred a blue roo to a chocolate hen, what would the potential results be?

Thanks in advance

 

[muffi]

I don't know of a color breeding chart, but if you want to learn more about Serama colors, I recommend The Serama Colours book, for an introduction. For further reading, I recommend the more comprehensive chicken color genetics book listed at the same website.

The simple answer to your question of blue roo over choc hen is 50% black chicks, 50% blue chicks. All males will be choc carriers and all females will not be. This holds true under the following assumptions:

-The rooster really has the autosomal, incompletely dominant blue gene, Bl. I have seen Seramas that appear to be a dark "midnight" blue but are actually matte black. If you get no blue chicks, this assumption is probably wrong.

-The hen really has the sex-linked recessive chocolate gene, choc. While not confirmed, there may be Seramas that appear chocolate because of dun or some other non-choc gene. If you get any chocolate colored chicks, this assumption could be wrong (see also next assumption). If you get any chicks that look like a blue splash or lavender color, they are likely dun + blue, which would indicate the hen is dun and not chocolate.

-The rooster does not carry a copy of the choc gene. If he did, then 50% of the chicks would exhibit the effects of the choc gene (assuming the hen also has the choc gene; if she doesn't, then only female chicks will express chocolate, no males will). Of the choc-expressing chicks, half will be chocolate and half will be chocolate + blue, which should look like a shade of mauve (should be darker than dun + blue would be).

 

[HeritageSeekers]

Is there a handy-dandy color breeding chart somewhere? Also, if I bred a blue roo to a chocolate hen, what would the potential results be?

Thanks in advance

I don't know of a color breeding chart, but if you want to learn more about Serama colors, I recommend The Serama Colours book, for an introduction. For further reading, I recommend the more comprehensive chicken color genetics book listed at the same website.

The simple answer to your question of blue roo over choc hen is 50% black chicks, 50% blue chicks. All males will be choc carriers and all females will not be. This holds true under the following assumptions:

-The rooster really has the autosomal, incompletely dominant blue gene, Bl. I have seen Seramas that appear to be a dark "midnight" blue but are actually matte black. If you get no blue chicks, this assumption is probably wrong.

-The hen really has the sex-linked recessive chocolate gene, choc. While not confirmed, there may be Seramas that appear chocolate because of dun or some other non-choc gene. If you get any chocolate colored chicks, this assumption could be wrong (see also next assumption). If you get any chicks that look like a blue splash or lavender color, they are likely dun + blue, which would indicate the hen is dun and not chocolate.

-The rooster does not carry a copy of the choc gene. If he did, then 50% of the chicks would exhibit the effects of the choc gene (assuming the hen also has the choc gene; if she doesn't, then only female chicks will express chocolate, no males will). Of the choc-expressing chicks, half will be chocolate and half will be chocolate + blue, which should look like a shade of mauve (should be darker than dun + blue would be).

Here is a "Mauve" Serama chick I photographed this morning (sorry.. too early so the photos are a bit dark) This chick is from a Chocolate Silver Duckwing cock and a Midnight Blue hen... creating what they call Mauve.
I'll try to get a better photograph later today when there's better lighting. It's a very soft color and absolutelyl stunning!