Chocolate Serama Breeders - dun and blue can be included here as well

[HeritageSeekers]

Thank you, CoffeKittie,

I think I'm going to have to branch out on the forums... So much to learn! I'm having fun though.

 

[JulieNKC]

Does the little chick in front look chocolate?

 

[muffi]

 

Ok.. I just figured out how to add a photo.... I think.  Thank you for your help and input. I'm here to learn!


Steve

Once again, it is very hard to judge color from a photo. It appears that he is mostly chocolate with silver. While cocoapop is traditionally a much lighter, redder color, often with black or chocolate lacing, along with the silver neck and saddle (or alternatively with golden neck and saddle aka golden cocoapop). What makes the cocoapop color unique is that usually when a bird is pure silver, that gene blocks the production of most red pigment so you would not expect any red, gold or buff colors in the bird except for a little leakage, with only black pigment-based shades like black, blue, dun, chocolate. Your bird looks like a normal silver and chocolate, as far as I can tell from the photo, if it truly captures his real color.

I highly recommend sigrid van Dort's chicken color genetics books if you can find copies. There is a large comprehensive one as well as a a smaller one just on Seramas. You can try contacting the SCNA to see if they have copies. Chicken color genetics are so complex and these books definitely help a lot by showing through photos and illustrations how different genes create different patterns and colors.

 

[muffi]

Does the little chick in front look chocolate? 

I think it probably is, especially since it has dark legs. That makes me think it is more likely a solid black that has been diluted by chocolate rather than being a regular brown chick. The one on the left looks like it has chocolate lacing. I am basing this on the rightmost chick appearing darker (black) than the other two.

 

[JulieNKC]

I think it probably is, especially since it has dark legs. That makes me think it is more likely a solid black that has been diluted by chocolate rather than being a regular brown chick. The one on the left looks like it has chocolate lacing. I am basing this on the rightmost chick appearing darker (black) than the other two.

I hope so, a solid chocolate would be so pretty. They both appear pretty brown next to the black and white one, my little roo chick too. The black/white on the older chick is what had me thinking chocolate, compared to the black on her, lol. I love these guys, and all their colors. I don't see how people can actually sell them, I want to keep them all.

 

[HeritageSeekers]

Once again, it is very hard to judge color from a photo. It appears that he is mostly chocolate with silver. While cocoapop is traditionally a much lighter, redder color, often with black or chocolate lacing, along with the silver neck and saddle (or alternatively with golden neck and saddle aka golden cocoapop). What makes the cocoapop color unique is that usually when a bird is pure silver, that gene blocks the production of most red pigment so you would not expect any red, gold or buff colors in the bird except for a little leakage, with only black pigment-based shades like black, blue, dun, chocolate. Your bird looks like a normal silver and chocolate, as far as I can tell from the photo, if it truly captures his real color.
I highly recommend sigrid van Dort's chicken color genetics books if you can find copies. There is a large comprehensive one as well as a a smaller one just on Seramas. You can try contacting the SCNA to see if they have copies. Chicken color genetics are so complex and these books definitely help a lot by showing through photos and illustrations how different genes create different patterns and colors.

Thank you, Muffi. I appreciate your help. Your information helps immensely!!!!! I am indeed ordering the book you suggested. Great idea.I could definitely use pictorials for learning the color genetics. It boggles my mind to no end.

I have a black hen that I'm breeding him to at the moment in hopes of proving out definitively (or not) if he's chocolate or dun. providing I've understood how chocolate works that is.. lol

Thank you again... you rock!

Steve

 

[smoothmule]

Nice rooster Steve, looks chocolate duckwing pattern to me. You're right to test breed with a black hen to prove it. Until you can test breed them, many patterned chocolates can't really be confirmed.

Julie, the one up front does "look" chocolate to me too. I'm not as sure about the one on the far left. Are they from the same parents? Did you hatch them? If neither then hen nor the rooster was chocolate, you have to assume the father is a chocolate carrier. If the chocolate is out of 2 non-chocolate parents, you can also assume that they are pullets because a chocolate carrier rooster cannot produce a chocolate cockerel with a non-chocolate hen.

I Love working with the chocolate gene. It's so easy once you know what you have for sure and predictable. You can call them anything you want but if they don't breed as a chocolate should, they are not truly chocolate. That is the true test of the recessive, sex linked chocolates.

Just remember, brown does not mean chocolate. Brown is a phenotype, that means the color looks brown. Chocolate is a gene that makes a particulr shade of brown, generally dark chocolate brown. Most of the paler ones I've seen labeled as light chocolate are often not chocolate at all. A paler shade would mean there is something besides chocolate diluting the black in addition to chocolate. I have bred enough other dilutes with my chocolates to know there are not many possibilities to make "real" chocolate appear lighter visually. The only thing I've hatched so far that will actually do that is chocolate plus blue and it's an odd color, not the milk chocolate I see some people claim is chocolate. I am suspicious that some of those pale chocolates are not chocolate but red based with genes that change the way the red appears and I have hatched some of those, they have been pumpkin diluted. In the games, the pumpkin gene will make light golden with yellow hackles and sometimes a chocolate looking tail but they are not chocolate. The cocopop color is pumpkin dilute, not chocolate. It's on a wheaten base and has lacing. The combination appears chocolatey and the name cocopop seems to indicate something chocolate. Also, I've seen so many labeled cocopop this and cocopop that, that I'm pretty sure they are not all the same as far as genes.

 

[Smokin Silkies]

Love the lacing on the chocolate Serama/Silkie cross, especially as you can see it in the picture with the Silkie. Is that Silkie dun? It's a beautiful color and a gorgeous bird.

They are true chocolate I love the lacing on her as well, very pretty!

 

[Smokin Silkies]

They are true chocolate I love the lacing on her as well, very pretty!

I think I answered that question incorrectly. The mother of the Silkie/Serama is a pure Black Silkie. The father is a true chocolate split

 

[JulieNKC]

Nice rooster Steve, looks chocolate duckwing pattern to me. You're right to test breed with a black hen to prove it. Until you can test breed them, many patterned chocolates can't really be confirmed.

Julie, the one up front does "look" chocolate to me too. I'm not as sure about the one on the far left. Are they from the same parents? Did you hatch them? If neither then hen nor the rooster was chocolate, you have to assume the father is a chocolate carrier. If the chocolate is out of 2 non-chocolate parents, you can also assume that they are pullets because a chocolate carrier rooster cannot produce a chocolate cockerel with a non-chocolate hen.

I Love working with the chocolate gene. It's so easy once you know what you have for sure and predictable. You can call them anything you want but if they don't breed as a chocolate should, they are not truly chocolate. That is the true test of the recessive, sex linked chocolates.

Just remember, brown does not mean chocolate. Brown is a phenotype, that means the color looks brown. Chocolate is a gene that makes a particulr shade of brown, generally dark chocolate brown. Most of the paler ones I've seen labeled as light chocolate are often not chocolate at all. A paler shade would mean there is something besides chocolate diluting the black in addition to chocolate. I have bred enough other dilutes with my chocolates to know there are not many possibilities to make "real" chocolate appear lighter visually. The only thing I've hatched so far that will actually do that is chocolate plus blue and it's an odd color, not the milk chocolate I see some people claim is chocolate. I am suspicious that some of those pale chocolates are not chocolate but red based with genes that change the way the red appears and I have hatched some of those, they have been pumpkin diluted. In the games, the pumpkin gene will make light golden with yellow hackles and sometimes a chocolate looking tail but they are not chocolate. The cocopop color is pumpkin dilute, not chocolate. It's on a wheaten base and has lacing. The combination appears chocolatey and the name cocopop seems to indicate something chocolate. Also, I've seen so many labeled cocopop this and cocopop that, that I'm pretty sure they are not all the same as far as genes.

They are all from different parents. The solid brown, frizzle, and black and white one are from Ruth and from different pens, the wheateny brownish mottledy looking cockeral and brown and orange one are from eggs from bhep. I am new to seramas, and all these colors so I'll keep posting pics as they grow until I figure out what they are, lol. They sure do make the guess what color they will be fun.