Choosing Which Rooster to Keep

[CreveChris]

Looking for advice regarding choosing behavior over appearance, a common decision breeders have to make, I'm sure.

It's early (my Crèvecœurs are 8 weeks), but my giant Michele the cockerel (we are trying to get Crèv size up to French standards) is growing a huge comb already but isn't as sweet or refined as Cati, his runner-up, who will be a gorgeous and large roo.

Michele pinches me hard on the wrist every other day because he Does Not want to leave the tractor (which has a full coop) at bedtime when I move them. The other 6 chicks hop into my hand for the transfer.

Won't be a problem soon, but they're still going into the brooder in the garage at night. Thinking of changing this next week since the weather is stable here and it will be summer.

I'm very hands-on, and my acreage is Florida forest on the salt marsh, so my little flock can't be free range. Maybe my desire for super friendly chickens is clouding my judgement.

 

[sourland]

Temperaments and conformation change as birds mature. Wait as long as is possible to make your decision.

 

[ChickenCanoe]

You don't want a human aggressive rooster if you can avoid it. You can always work toward standards over generations.
If you are going toward a breeding program for Crèvecœurs, or any other breed for that matter, you can't do so with one rooster. You have nothing to compare that rooster to.
You likely have much more space than I do but in trying to perfect a breed, I raise up to 10 roosters a year to breeding age and then perhaps select the 4 best to be replacement breeders.
I hatch about 100 birds for myself each year and can decide at hatch, which ones - perhaps 30% won't be suitable for breeding. Then again at about 4 weeks I select again when more flaws appear. And all that effort is for a single breed. I don't have time or space to do this with multiple breeds.
Without hatching a lot and culling a lot, it would be a huge stroke of luck to get any improvement in your birds.
The importer of extremely rare breeds, Greenfire Farms, has a statement on their ordering website that I ascribe to.
"You should expect birds that reflect the fundamental attributes of the breed. You should not expect a cosmetically perfect bird. In fact, you should expect to find some defects in virtually every bird you raise. Just as every child is not destined to become a supermodel, every bird is not destined to win ribbons at shows. Only a tiny fraction of chickens conform to their breed standard in all respects. We do not represent that every bird we sell is show quality or is flawless. You should receive birds that can be the foundation for a breeding program that with enough time and skill can produce show-quality birds"

Unless you want to hatch relentlessly and cull religiously, don't expect much improvement any time soon.

 

[Folly's place]

Do you have the Livestock Conservancy's book on breeding? It's excellent, and you can order it online. I agree with CC, and also realize that it's tough to have 100 to 200 chicks each year!
My interest is in white Chanteclers, not as limited a gene pool as your Crevecoeurs,, and I'm not interested in showing, but want nice birds.
This year I have 21 chicks, straight run, and will choose breeders from that group.
My goals: Good temperament, good conformation, size, and both good layers and for meat. So, I keep the cockerels for a while and select away from difficult behaviors, obvious faults in conformation, and size, in that order.
Unless a young chick is a total jerk early, I wait for more time to pass to judge them.
Mary

 

[CreveChris]

You don't want a human aggressive rooster if you can avoid it. You can always work toward standards over generations.
If you are going toward a breeding program for Crèvecœurs, or any other breed for that matter, you can't do so with one rooster. You have nothing to compare that rooster to.
You likely have much more space than I do but in trying to perfect a breed, I raise up to 10 roosters a year to breeding age and then perhaps select the 4 best to be replacement breeders.
I hatch about 100 birds for myself each year and can decide at hatch, which ones - perhaps 30% won't be suitable for breeding. Then again at about 4 weeks I select again when more flaws appear.
Without hatching a lot and culling a lot, it would be a huge stroke of luck to get any improvement in your birds.
The importer of extremely rare breeds, Greenfire Farms, has a statement on their ordering website that I ascribe to.
"You should expect birds that reflect the fundamental attributes of the breed. You should not expect a cosmetically perfect bird. In fact, you should expect to find some defects in virtually every bird you raise. Just as every child is not destined to become a supermodel, every bird is not destined to win ribbons at shows. Only a tiny fraction of chickens conform to their breed standard in all respects. We do not represent that every bird we sell is show quality or is flawless. You should receive birds that can be the foundation for a breeding program that with enough time and skill can produce show-quality birds"

Unless you want to hatch relentlessly and cull religiously, don't expect much improvement any time soon.

I acquired my day old Crèvecœurs from Greenfire Farms as recommended by The Livestock Conservancy. I like what you are saying, and will raise the cockerels to breeding age before deciding which to keep, but keeping them all would be advantageous if I can grow more hens. Just getting started is all uphill, but enjoyable because the chickens' personalities are delightful. Thank you!

 

[CreveChris]

Do you have the Livestock Conservancy's book on breeding? It's excellent, and you can order it online. I agree with CC, and also realize that it's tough to have 100 to 200 chicks each year!
My interest is in white Chanteclers, not as limited a gene pool as your Crevecoeurs,, and I'm not interested in showing, but want nice birds.
This year I have 21 chicks, straight run, and will choose breeders from that group.
My goals: Good temperament, good conformation, size, and both good layers and for meat. So, I keep the cockerels for a while and select away from difficult behaviors, obvious faults in conformation, and size, in that order.
Unless a young chick is a total jerk early, I wait for more time to pass to judge them.
Mary

I will buy the book, definitely! Most books and podcasts I read/listen to are geared towards production birds, not ultra rare breeds. It's a totally different approach.

I wanted to start small, then hatch eggs in my first year. Buying dozens of chicks felt overwhelming, while hatching from my flock will be slower but more manageable, since I can control the timing.

The straight run chicks give an even hen to rooster ratio, so this years' progress is more about setting up the program than improving the breed. But I appreciate the advice about behavior. My three cockerels are all gorgeous, while only two of my hens are showstoppers so far (and one of those is a blue). The size is all over the place right now with Arti & Weesa weighing far less than the rest. We shall see...

 

[CreveChris]

Do you have the Livestock Conservancy's book on breeding? It's excellent, and you can order it online. I agree with CC, and also realize that it's tough to have 100 to 200 chicks each year!
My interest is in white Chanteclers, not as limited a gene pool as your Crevecoeurs,, and I'm not interested in showing, but want nice birds.
This year I have 21 chicks, straight run, and will choose breeders from that group.
My goals: Good temperament, good conformation, size, and both good layers and for meat. So, I keep the cockerels for a while and select away from difficult behaviors, obvious faults in conformation, and size, in that order.
Unless a young chick is a total jerk early, I wait for more time to pass to judge them.
Mary

Bought the book:
An Introduction to Heritage Breeds
Saving and Raising Rare-Breed Livestock and Poultry

Thanks again!

 

[getaclue]

You might want to try the American Poultry Assn. book, American Standard of Perfection. It gives the information regarding the standard that birds are judged by (especially at the shows).

Unless there are very serious defects, it's best to let them grow out some, before you start deciding which to keep, and which to cull. Do a lot of watching. Pick the ones that thrive. Their growth rate will be a bit better, they'll be a little more active, healthier. That does not mean to discard all others, since you may get one that gets off to a bit of a slow start, then excels. WEIGH them.

When trying to achieve the goal you have set, it's a lot more hands on. Pick them up on a regular basis. Check them over. They've got to get used to being handled, if you plan to show. This helps a lot with temperament too.

Watch temperament, but not quite as closely. Temperament varies, fluctuates, and changes during different stages of their growth. They go through stages of being friendly, scared, flighty, testy (when they're developing, and using skills to establish pecking order, and little cockerel skills). Usually, by the time the pullets get near ready to lay, they should all be fairly settled down, and somewhat to downright friendly. You are going to need a bachelor pad, to keep the cockerels separated, especially the ones that shape up best, and you intend to keep. You don't want them fighting, and messing up an otherwise beautiful cockerel/rooster.

I'd like to give some tips on raising, training, and dealing with cockerels/roosters, that I've found very successful. If interested, please let me know.

 

[CreveChris]

You might want to try the American Poultry Assn. book, American Standard of Perfection. It gives the information regarding the standard that birds are judged by (especially at the shows).

Unless there are very serious defects, it's best to let them grow out some, before you start deciding which to keep, and which to cull. Do a lot of watching. Pick the ones that thrive. Their growth rate will be a bit better, they'll be a little more active, healthier. That does not mean to discard all others, since you may get one that gets off to a bit of a slow start, then excels. WEIGH them.

When trying to achieve the goal you have set, it's a lot more hands on. Pick them up on a regular basis. Check them over. They've got to get used to being handled, if you plan to show. This helps a lot with temperament too.

Watch temperament, but not quite as closely. Temperament varies, fluctuates, and changes during different stages of their growth. They go through stages of being friendly, scared, flighty, testy (when they're developing, and using skills to establish pecking order, and little cockerel skills). Usually, by the time the pullets get near ready to lay, they should all be fairly settled down, and somewhat to downright friendly. You are going to need a bachelor pad, to keep the cockerels separated, especially the ones that shape up best, and you intend to keep. You don't want them fighting, and messing up an otherwise beautiful cockerel/rooster.

I'd like to give some tips on raising, training, and dealing with cockerels/roosters, that I've found very successful. If interested, please let me know.

Thanks, yes! I would greatly appreciate any links to posts you have written on the subject. I'm researching the bachelor pad right now because I've read about keeping the roosters separated before shows, especially.

I'm curious how noise levels increase with multiple roosters, too. My little flock is surprisingly quiet.

 

[getaclue]

Noise levels will increase some with age. For the most part, mine are fairly predictable with their crowing. They crow just before daybreak, between 5 - 5:30 am. This goes on for about 45 minutes, give or take. They will crow when a hen does her egg song. They may crow if something large flies over the coop/run. They crow when I go out to care for them, and spend time with them. Not obnoxiously so, but the ones in the next section sound off to remind me not to forget them. They crow some a short time before it starts to rain.

When the sun sets, and they settle in for the night, they don't crow unless they hear a neighbor's rooster(s) crowing, or as a signal that something is wrong. When my roosters crow at night, I pay attention. If they're crowing in response to a neighbor's rooster(s), which isn't too often, I disregard. If they continue, and/or it's not in response to a neighbor's rooster, I check my coop. Usually it means a predator is lurking, even if I don't see it, or it ran off when it heard my approach.

You should get used to the crowing, and what some of the variations mean. My roosters sound different when crowing along with a hen singing her egg song, than when warning about a predator.