Chronicles of Raising Meat Birds - Modern Broilers, Heritage and Hybrids

[RUNuts]

Whole Foods has this 5 step humane scale and 5+ doesn’t exist in chickens, but it would if farms hatched the meat bird eggs on their site and were processed on site. I don't think many farms could have the capacity to process under inspection on site, but it made me curious if it was even possible for broilers for us at consumer level to achieve those highest humane standards.

Did you see the utube with Joel Salatin on why he didn't sell to a big chain? He disagreed with their definition of "humane". When he challenged them on it, they basically said it wasn't up for discussion. So he turned them down. The point I remember was, him saying the company representatives had never butchered and weren't qualified to decide what humane was. Was not complementary to the company reps.

Interesting speech. Gave me pause to reflect.

Then daughter was discussing "organic". The big companies have watered down the definition. Joel's comment on that was "we are better than organic, why would we want to lower our standards?" Don't agree with everything, but I like discussion. Daughter did some research and was upset by her findings. We learn.

 

[jolenesdad]

Did you see the utube with Joel Salatin on why he didn't sell to a big chain? He disagreed with their definition of "humane". When he challenged them on it, they basically said it wasn't up for discussion. So he turned them down. The point I remember was, him saying the company representatives had never butchered and weren't qualified to decide what humane was. Was not complementary to the company reps.

Interesting speech. Gave me pause to reflect.

Then daughter was discussing "organic". The big companies have watered down the definition. Joel's comment on that was "we are better than organic, why would we want to lower our standards?" Don't agree with everything, but I like discussion. Daughter did some research and was upset by her findings. We learn.

Yes absolutely. All of it is marketing. Supposedly now all of the Whole Foods suppliers are owned by Purdue anyway.

The entire fact that you can’t decipher what any of it really means, who is behind it, and what means something to someone else may mean nothing to you — or the chicken — is what made me start this. I wanted to figure out what humane was to ME. It’s evolving in my mind already.

 

[aart]

it made me curious if it was even possible for broilers for us at consumer level to achieve those highest humane standards.

All of it is marketing.

Yes, I presume the' humane' label is as misleading as 'cage free' 'pastured, etc.
I have some friends who breed pigs under a 'humane' label...what happens to those piglets when they are trucked several states away to be 'finished' is a mystery.

 

[LilyD]

RUNuts I have noticed that with the CornishX in the grow out coop with my meatie chicks (the cornish are 3 weeks younger but the same size) I cannot use open top feeders. The Cornish will get right in them and just lay down and eat. They will go through more than double the feed with them in there and they aren't ranging very far from where the shelter is while the heritage will make it to the other side of my 2 acre property already if allowed. The Heritage chicks can get out anytime they want they are already flying over the door and out of the grow out coop to get outside (just have to figure out how to get back in lol) the cornishX are already starting their lazy lay by the feeder behavior and aren't going out much. Not sure how well it's going to work.

jolenesdad the delewares I had were slow to start growing but then got big once they started growing. They weren't great layers though so I opted for the orpingtons just because they seemed to lay better and grow quickly to start. It definitely depends on which lines you get though with a lot of the heritage breeds and what the people have been breeding towards. Starting out with farm stock rather than hatchery often will give you a leg up but you can start with hatchery stock and it will work as well as long as you are committed to eating the skinnier slower growing birds the first few years so that your breeders are the ones that grow fast and flesh out quickly.

 

[RUNuts]

@LilyD are you free feeding? I put out food in the AM & after work (couple hours before dusk). Put the water away from the food to make them walk.
Used the guideline where you put enough food so they eat it in 20 minutes. Mine ate a lot of grass.

Huge, bulging crops after eating. They stuffed it in.

 

[jolenesdad]

Thanks @LilyD! I’m not planning on keeping much from these Delawares, I can’t imagine getting much from hatchery stock. I may even change my order today.

I’m thinking I’m already behind here to have any DP mixed in, should probably go with all meaties this time and the 4 or so marans roosters I’ve already got.

I may try and hatch some Delaware’s and some Bielefelders in June, that could be 6 weeks ahead of my fall meaties. I’m DYING to try Bielefelders. They’re called the über chicken and I love that word.

 

[jolenesdad]

I had non stop waste with this last batch until I used the round feeders and elevated them a bit. I never could remotely figure out FF because of them getting in it and sitting.

 

[LilyD]

@LilyD are you free feeding? I put out food in the AM & after work (couple hours before dusk). Put the water away from the food to make them walk.
Used the guideline where you put enough food so they eat it in 20 minutes. Mine ate a lot of grass.

Huge, bulging crops after eating. They stuffed it in.

I free feed the first 3 weeks once they are out on pasture they get food in the evening only as a way to get them inside the coops. The cornish waddle their little bodies right up to me for the food the heritage birds are slower coming back. It's usually just starting to get towards dusk when I get home and feed. They are still running and catching bugs and are less inclined to come back for the food but will after a bit because they are curious what I am doing.

Thanks @LilyD! I’m not planning on keeping much from these Delawares, I can’t imagine getting much from hatchery stock. I may even change my order today.

I’m thinking I’m already behind here to have any DP mixed in, should probably go with all meaties this time and the 4 or so marans roosters I’ve already got.

I may try and hatch some Delaware’s and some Bielefelders in June, that could be 6 weeks ahead of my fall meaties. I’m DYING to try Bielefelders. They’re called the über chicken and I love that word.

Another one to try if you haven't already are Dorking's mine didn't produce well and because we are so cold up here in winters they didn't overwinter very well so I went with orps cause they are more cold hardy but I LOVED the dorkings breast meat and their meatiness early on. Maybe mixing this with another good heritage breed or a cornishX hen would work well.

 

[LilyD]

I had non stop waste with this last batch until I used the round feeders and elevated them a bit. I never could remotely figure out FF because of them getting in it and sitting.

CornishX are just pigs it's terrible with the heritage breeds I can use the open top feeders the Cornish X I need something that has a closed container and only allows feeding from the bottom otherwise I will come in and see little white butts sticking out the top as they eat themselves down in the feed. Even with the other heritage breeds they are basically right on top of the food/water constantly.

 

[Molpet]

humane' label is as misleading as 'cage free'

yep
just read this ny times article



By Stephanie Strom

• Jan. 31, 2017

Shoppers buying a dozen eggs these days not only have to decide whether they want organic, free-range or cage-free. They also have to choose among cartons with labels like “American Humane Certified,” “Animal Welfare Approved” and “Certified Humane.”

As the number of consumers concerned about animal welfare grows, such labels, or seals, as they are known in the business, are spreading like kudzu on packages of meat and eggs in the refrigerated cases of grocery stores, to assure shoppers that the cattle, pigs or chickens were treated well.

But the labels may just as easily sow confusion or even mislead shoppers, who probably know little or nothing about the small number of organizations that create most of them and police the food producers that use them.

“Consumers are looking behind the barn doors at these factory farms, and they don’t like what they’re seeing,” said Daisy Freund, the director of farm animal welfare at the American Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals, which created a website last year to help consumers navigate the seals. “Unfortunately, we know that when they hit the grocery store, they’re faced with a profound lack of transparency, accountability and, in some cases, downright deception when it comes to statements on packaging about humane treatment of animals.”

Whole Foods established the Global Animal Partnership, a five-step certification program it requires its suppliers to use; it is also used by a few small meat companies and small retailers.

(Federal organic regulations set standards for animal care, though in some cases they are less rigorous than those of private certification groups.)

But the phrases on the labels have no set meaning; the federal government has no rules for the use of words like “humane.” The term “free-range” on a product, for example, does not necessarily mean that an animal had access to pasture.

offer guidelines to meat producers, and requires them to submit applications and get permission before using terms like “humanely raised” or “raised with care” on packages. But it does not send out inspectors to test those claims.

Animal Welfare Institute. “A producer has to fill out a very simple form, one page, two sides, and submit some supporting information.”

That may be a one-sentence affidavit declaring something like, “I take good care of my animals,” she said. In some cases, meat companies submit their certifications from the labeling organizations; Ms. Jones’s group would like the federal government to require that all companies do the same.

Even that is not an ideal solution. “Not all certification seals are created equal,” said Andrew DeCoriolis, a program director at Farm Forward, an animal advocacy group. “Companies can essentially pick the standards that are the easiest for them to meet.”

Mr. DeCoriolis and many other animal welfare advocates say it’s no wonder the largest of the certifying groups is the American Humane Association, the group behind the “American Humane Certified” seal. Many of its standards, the advocates say, are less rigorous than other groups’, and therefore preferred by meat companies.

The advocates noted that a number of the group’s standards are similar to those used in the meat industry. For instance, American Humane allows the level of ammonia in chicken houses to reach 25 parts per million — the standard the chicken industry recommends, and higher than the maximum level set by some other certifiers. High levels can render the birds sluggish and less likely to move, and even kill them.

The group also allows farmers to wean piglets at 21 days, an industry standard that is a week less than what is permitted by two other certifiers, and half the time a piglet must suckle under standards set by Animal Welfare Approved, the certification program of A Greener World, which works to change agricultural practices.

Berman and Company, a public relations firm that is waging a forceful campaignagainst the Humane Society of the United States and People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals.

certification program of Humane Farm Animal Care. (Humane Farm Animal Care defends its minimum of two square feet, saying it ensures that “hens will not have to go far to find cover, shade and nutrients.”)

That difference led the Happy Egg Company, a free-range egg operation owned by the British firm Noble Foods, to switch from Humane Farm Animal Care to American Humane in 2015. “Two square feet per bird is not appropriate,” said David Wagstaff, the president of Happy Egg. “It’s fundamentally flawed from a standards perspective.”

Such nuances make parsing the various labels difficult for shoppers. “I don’t think many consumers understand that there are these differences in certification standards,” said Temple Grandin, the animal scientist and noted champion of animal welfare. Ms. Grandin is on American Humane’s scientific advisory board and advises other certification groups. She acknowledged that the organization’s standards are not as rigorous as others’, but said it played to a special segment of the meat industry.

Consumers Union, the publisher of Consumer Reports, has just issued an updated evaluation of the standardsset by the groups. “The only one we have any confidence in and think gives you value for your money is Animal Welfare Approved,” said Jean Halloran, the director of food policy initiatives at Consumers Union. “The rest of them have, to greater and lesser degrees, shortcomings — and American Humane in particular has a lot of shortcomings.”

Perhaps that explains why the labels have become such a point of contention. Last year, a class-action lawsuit was filed against Foster Farms, a large poultry producer, questioning the “American Humane Certified” label on packages of its chicken. “The A.H.A. standards that Foster Farms purports to follow in order to attain ‘humane certification’ from the A.H.A. permit and even necessitate inhumane treatment on their face,” asserted the plaintiffs, who are consumers.

In a lawsuit filed in May, Handsome Brook Farm, an egg company, sued Adele Douglass, the founder of Humane Farm Animal Care, after she sent a letter to some of the company’s customers contending that claims on its cartons that the hens were organic and pasture-raised could not always be verified.

The Organic Consumers Association has sued Handsome Brook over those claims. Betsy Babcock, a founder of Handsome Brook, declined to comment on any litigation. But she said the company had chosen American Humane to certify its eggs after considering all of the certification groups.

“We wanted to go with someone who had been doing this for a long time,” Ms. Babcock said. “The other thing was, we wanted to work with an organization whose standards are scientifically based and objective.”