Clutch size? How many is too many?

[ihatedarkroast]

I'm sorry if someone else already asked, but I couldn't find a specific answer.

My Polish 1 year old hen, Minette, is very ambitious. I thought she had maybe 6 eggs under her; but, I just counted and there are 17 eggs tucked under those feathers! I have no idea how she was able to sneak all those in there, but she managed it somehow! They include all the eggs laid by all of my other hens and pullets, so it's quite a mix. They are all in this plot together with the rooster doing guard duty outside. Should I take some out? How do I know which ones to take? The second nesting box is probbably too close to Minette for the other hens to use it, so I'm going to try putting a cardboard box with nesting material and fake eggs further away to see if they will start laying elsewhere.

Should I try to check the eggs with a flashlight to see if any are fertile? My Polish rooster, Beethoven, is extremely vigilant and thorough to cover his ladies. Any advice is appreciated as I've never let a hen hatch a clutch before.

 

[NatJ]

I just counted and there are 17 eggs tucked under those feathers!...Should I take some out? How do I know which ones to take?

Should I try to check the eggs with a flashlight to see if any are fertile?

I would probably candle them wtih a flashlight in a dark room, or after dark tonight in the chicken pen.

If you find some are developing and some are not, take away the ones that are not.

Mark the eggs you leave with her, so you can easily recognize if any extras are added. Then check every day or so to remove any new eggs (unless you separate her so the other hens can no longer lay in that nest.)

To mark eggs, you can use something like a pencil or crayon. Make big markings thta can be seen from all directions. I find that markings on the side get rubbed off faster than markings on the ends, but the sides are easier to see when checking the nest. So I tend to mark the sides and the ends

The eggs need to all fit under her, with none sticking out. She might be able to manage all 17 or she might not.

If all of the eggs are developing, I would probably leave them all (development shows that they are staying warm enough).

If none have started developing yet, you could leave them all (if they seem to fit under her), or you could take some away. I would take away any that have cracks, and any that are unusually dirty. I might take away eggs that are extra-large or extra-small. Beyond that, I would think about what eggs probably come from what hens, and which hens you would most like to have chicks from, and use that to decide.

 

[ihatedarkroast]

I would probably candle them wtih a flashlight in a dark room, or after dark tonight in the chicken pen.

If you find some are developing and some are not, take away the ones that are not.

Mark the eggs you leave with her, so you can easily recognize if any extras are added. Then check every day or so to remove any new eggs (unless you separate her so the other hens can no longer lay in that nest.)

To mark eggs, you can use something like a pencil or crayon. Make big markings thta can be seen from all directions. I find that markings on the side get rubbed off faster than markings on the ends, but the sides are easier to see when checking the nest. So I tend to mark the sides and the ends

The eggs need to all fit under her, with none sticking out. She might be able to manage all 17 or she might not.

If all of the eggs are developing, I would probably leave them all (development shows that they are staying warm enough).

If none have started developing yet, you could leave them all (if they seem to fit under her), or you could take some away. I would take away any that have cracks, and any that are unusually dirty. I might take away eggs that are extra-large or extra-small. Beyond that, I would think about what eggs probably come from what hens, and which hens you would most like to have chicks from, and use that to decide.

Thank you. That is all quite helpful information!

Ok. None were sticking out, but I took two out and put them in the new box. All the other chickens lined up on the ramp to gawk at the weird new thing in their house. And that was really funny!

I did not see any dirty or cracked eggs at all. The next is made of clean orchard hay, with very little poo. I added more hay to the house in case she wants to refresh it.

I definitely want to keep all the pure Polish eggs, and probably most of the Ameraucana X Polish, as the blue eggs are the most sought after in my egg buying crowd. I don't think they taste any different from the brown, beige, or white but what do I know?

Tomorrow will be the 5th day since Minette began sitting her clutch. I think it will be a good day to peek in on them.

I'm so egg-cited!

 

[ihatedarkroast]

Veins and shadows! I'm not sure what I'm seeing.
I take it that the 1st picture is definitely development of an embryo.
I also found some eggs that looked clear and bright. I figured they were totally empty/infertile. I cracked one to confirm.

But there are also a couple eggs that are half shadow like the second picture above. Is the big shadow an embryo that is further along? Or is it just a really big dark yolk with nothing going on? I brightened the photo to make it easier to see. If they are further along, I'm not sure how, as we should be around day 5, 6 at the most?

Out of 15 eggs, I found that 8 had veins or a big dark shadow. 7 were either totally empty or had a vague tiny possible dark spot in there, but I couldn't tell for sure if it was anything or not. The marans cross eggs were really difficult to see. The white and blue eggs were way easier to see. I marked them all with pencil to remind myself which was what and put them back. I did use sandpaper to scrape off a little poo. A few eggs had poo smears on them which didn't want to come off, so I left them.

 

[NatJ]

Veins and shadows! I'm not sure what I'm seeing.
I take it that the 1st picture is definitely development of an embryo.

Yes, I think the first picture is a developing embryo.

I also found some eggs that looked clear and bright. I figured they were totally empty/infertile. I cracked one to confirm.

I would remove all the ones like that.

But there are also a couple eggs that are half shadow like the second picture above. Is the big shadow an embryo that is further along? Or is it just a really big dark yolk with nothing going on? I brightened the photo to make it easier to see. If they are further along, I'm not sure how, as we should be around day 5, 6 at the most?

I'm not quite sure about those.
You could mark which ones they are, put them back under the hen for now, and check again in a week or so.

Out of 15 eggs, I found that 8 had veins or a big dark shadow. 7 were either totally empty or had a vague tiny possible dark spot in there, but I couldn't tell for sure if it was anything or not. The marans cross eggs were really difficult to see. The white and blue eggs were way easier to see. I marked them all with pencil to remind myself which was what and put them back. I did use sandpaper to scrape off a little poo. A few eggs had poo smears on them which didn't want to come off, so I left them.

I would remove the 7 that are either empty or almost empty, and let the hen continue with the 8 that are either developing or doubtful. That gives you a better chance of having them hatch fairly close to each other in time.

If you have some eggs hatch, and others that need a few more days, the poor hen has a problem: does she stay on the eggs while the already-hatched chicks go hungry, or does she come off the nest to take care of the chicks and let the remaining eggs die of cold? So it's much better if the eggs hatch within a short time window (1-2 days is best.)

 

[ihatedarkroast]

Yes, I think the first picture is a developing embryo.


I would remove all the ones like that.


I'm not quite sure about those.
You could mark which ones they are, put them back under the hen for now, and check again in a week or so.



I would remove the 7 that are either empty or almost empty, and let the hen continue with the 8 that are either developing or doubtful. That gives you a better chance of having them hatch fairly close to each other in time.

If you have some eggs hatch, and others that need a few more days, the poor hen has a problem: does she stay on the eggs while the already-hatched chicks go hungry, or does she come off the nest to take care of the chicks and let the remaining eggs die of cold? So it's much better if the eggs hatch within a short time window (1-2 days is best.)

Ok, I took out 4 clear ones and cracked them open. They were all empty except one had a tiny vein inside. That vein didn't connect to anything so that was interesting, but I'm guessing not viable. I will check the eggs again in 5 more days to remove some more. I have a feeling there will be 5 good ones out of the original 17.

I guess I need to get my brooder and heat lamp ready, and figure out a setup for after they hatch, assuming they do.

 

[NatJ]

Ok, I took out 4 clear ones and cracked them open. They were all empty except one had a tiny vein inside. That vein didn't connect to anything so that was interesting, but I'm guessing not viable. I will check the eggs again in 5 more days to remove some more. I have a feeling there will be 5 good ones out of the original 17.

Sounds good!

I guess I need to get my brooder and heat lamp ready, and figure out a setup for after they hatch, assuming they do.

If the hen does a good job, you will not need a brooder and heat lamp.

But if you have one of the rare hens who attacks the chicks that hatch, then yes it will be good to have things ready to brood the chicks yourself.

 

[ihatedarkroast]

Update: a second hen went broody. The second hen, Marie, has squished herself up against the first broody trying to squeeze herself onto the nest. For crying out loud! I assume I'm going to have to separate them, which means setting up a different area. I'm debating breaking the second broody, as I'm not sure I have the space to raise that many chicks. Also, the second hen didn't go broody all at once. She started to sort of hang out by the other hen a few days ago, but didn't lock in until last night. Ag. I'm not too sure what to do.

I checked the eggs under the first hen, or tried to last night. My "empty" eggs are not empty at all. I think I just missed the veining on them the first time because I don't have a good egg candler, just a crappy flashlight that's not the right size. Based on the shadow/aircell I think they are quite far along. About half to 1/3 of the egg is a dark shadow now. I'm wondering if my expected hatch date of May 18 is not right. But I've never done this before, so not sure.

 

[NatJ]

I checked the eggs under the first hen, or tried to last night. My "empty" eggs are not empty at all. I think I just missed the veining on them the first time because I don't have a good egg candler, just a crappy flashlight that's not the right size. Based on the shadow/aircell I think they are quite far along. About half to 1/3 of the egg is a dark shadow now. I'm wondering if my expected hatch date of May 18 is not right. But I've never done this before, so not sure.

I'm not entirely sure about hatch date either, but I suppose you will find out when it happens

Those "empty" eggs: are they the ones that looked clear before? If so, they probably were laid later than the others, so they are a few days behind on their development (not big enough to see at the first candling). Or are they the ones that had a big shadow before? If so, I agree it's probably your flashlight showing things less clearly than you might like.

Update: a second hen went broody. The second hen, Marie, has squished herself up against the first broody trying to squeeze herself onto the nest. For crying out loud! I assume I'm going to have to separate them, which means setting up a different area. I'm debating breaking the second broody, as I'm not sure I have the space to raise that many chicks. Also, the second hen didn't go broody all at once. She started to sort of hang out by the other hen a few days ago, but didn't lock in until last night. Ag. I'm not too sure what to do.

Two broodies sharing one nest and raising the chicks together can work sometimes.
Other times, they break eggs while scuffling around, or one chases the other away, or the chicks get hurt when they hatch, or some other problem.

Breaking the second broody is certainly one option. It is probably the easiest choice, because they you don't have the uncertainty of two broodies on one nest and not knowing how they will do.

If you have eggs that seem to be at two different stages, you might split the eggs by development level and give one set to each broody. (Move broody #2, give her fake eggs until you know she's settled in the new place, then give her the eggs that are less far along.) That doesn't increase how many chicks you will have, although it does mean managing them in two batches instead of one.

Yes, broodies do sometimes start gradually instead of all at once.

 

[ihatedarkroast]

I'm not entirely sure about hatch date either, but I suppose you will find out when it happens

Those "empty" eggs: are they the ones that looked clear before? If so, they probably were laid later than the others, so they are a few days behind on their development (not big enough to see at the first candling). Or are they the ones that had a big shadow before? If so, I agree it's probably your flashlight showing things less clearly than you might like.



Two broodies sharing one nest and raising the chicks together can work sometimes.
Other times, they break eggs while scuffling around, or one chases the other away, or the chicks get hurt when they hatch, or some other problem.

Breaking the second broody is certainly one option. It is probably the easiest choice, because they you don't have the uncertainty of two broodies on one nest and not knowing how they will do.

If you have eggs that seem to be at two different stages, you might split the eggs by development level and give one set to each broody. (Move broody #2, give her fake eggs until you know she's settled in the new place, then give her the eggs that are less far along.) That doesn't increase how many chicks you will have, although it does mean managing them in two batches instead of one.

Yes, broodies do sometimes start gradually instead of all at once.

Update:
To answer the question about the empties, a couple were behind a few days and a couple I thought the dark shadow was just an extra dark yolk, but it was a chick in there. I stuck the "late" eggs under broody #2 since I didn't think her eggs were done all that great. She went broody gradually and her eggs just didn't get consistent warming for the first several days.

Ok, but now... I caused a problem. I wasn't able to separate the broodies from each other yet. We are so short handed at work, I keep picking up extra shifts, and my kids are very little and very hands on. Anyway, the 2nd broody is dominant over my poor little Polish broody. She has totally kicked Minette off her nest, and stolen half the eggs. The eggs are all switched up now. I sorted them out and put the chickens back on their original nests a few times, but it's useless. Marie (2nd broody) is determined that she needs to have the original nest and steals it every time Minette goes off the nest to eat and drink.

I think first chicks are going to hatch May 18, but who knows now if the original eggs are going to be successful or not, as some of the farthest along got left out in the cold. Marie is bigger than Minette, but for some reason, only gets half the number of eggs under her maybe 6 or 8 tops. The good news, is that Minette is patiently sitting on the 2nd nest of later eggs and doing a good job of covering them, and is being left totally alone on the 2nd nest. So I could try switching the ladies back again, but it might work better to leave them where they are and just separate everyone out right before hatch time, so they don't have as much time to swap back.

But my henhouse has 2 doors. I am thinking about partitioning it and moving the hens so each has a separate side with it's own door so they can hear each other but not see each other. But it's too high off the ground. I need to lower it off the old crib it's sitting on, which means my husband needs to move that heavy thing while I mind the kids and fend off the rooster. Lol.

The rooster, Beethoven, bloodies me good every chance I get despite my efforts to tame him. His favorite little wife, the one he came with, is the first broody, so he is particularly enranged every time I try to mess with her or her eggs. I think he is going to become coq-au-vin later in June bc the hubs is tired of it, unless the roo can be sold or traded.

Anyway, I'll keep trying to figure it out. And I'll try to find some time to candle again and pull any dead eggs I find. Thanks for all the help.