Coccidios Not Responding to Corid or Sulmet

[centrarchid]

Do not stress to much about cocci always being present. I have similar situation and most of my birds appear very resistant. With vulnerable lines I have delayed their exposure treating them with Corid using prescribed methods about time birds are exposed (released onto cocci infected ground). Corid treatment simply suppresses cocci long enough for birds' immune systems to ramp up and keep it under control. By time treatment ends birds will have some cocci in gut but will not be impacted greatly. I apply treatment via water starting a couple days prior to exposure. Birds with weaker immune systems are culled but usually that repressents on a very small percentage of infected. I am not so certain the more heavily infected birds do not catch up as some I am following after a heavy infection almost resulting in loss are exhibiting compensatory growth where they are still putting on size even after siblings filled out. Still those lagards are culled from breeding flock.

 

[off-grid hen]

I don't know if you've mentioned this or not, and I'm a total newbie at this, but... have you switched feed or not? If the report says it is feed related, it certainly wouldn't hurt. Was a fecal test done on the droppings from a different lab? I would send a sample somewhere else so you can get a second opinion.

This is a terrible situation, I hope I never go through something like this.

 

[Haunted55]

Do not stress to much about cocci always being present. I have similar situation and most of my birds appear very resistant. With vulnerable lines I have delayed their exposure treating them with Corid using prescribed methods about time birds are exposed (released onto cocci infected ground). Corid treatment simply suppresses cocci long enough for birds' immune systems to ramp up and keep it under control. By time treatment ends birds will have some cocci in gut but will not be impacted greatly. I apply treatment via water starting a couple days prior to exposure. Birds with weaker immune systems are culled but usually that repressents on a very small percentage of infected. I am not so certain the more heavily infected birds do not catch up as some I am following after a heavy infection almost resulting in loss are exhibiting compensatory growth where they are still putting on size even after siblings filled out. Still those lagards are culled from breeding flock.

You know what really gets me? These birds, when they first started showing signs of the coccidios were not on the ground yet. They were also seperate from my older birds. They shouldn't have gotten cocci. I still have birds from this age group who haven't been out of their pens or even seen the outdoors except through a window. Yet they are showing the same signs as the JG that was sent for the necropsy. No where near as bad but you can feel their keel bone. They are the ones who showed improvement after the Sulmet treatment. They are gaining in weight and size, as you have observed, as well.

Right now, I can't cull them. I just don't have the heart to do so after so many. Most of these are extra roos and will go into the 'boy's club' when it is finished. They will not be a part of the main flock. At this point, they're not on the ground, so any infecting is limited to their pen, as the Vet said, it doesn't appear to be the cocci that done them in so it might be a good idea to keep them in case another sample is needed. I don't know, it just gets curiouser and curiouser.

 

[Haunted55]

I don't know if you've mentioned this or not, and I'm a total newbie at this, but... have you switched feed or not? If the report says it is feed related, it certainly wouldn't hurt. Was a fecal test done on the droppings from a different lab? I would send a sample somewhere else so you can get a second opinion.

This is a terrible situation, I hope I never go through something like this.

I don't have too many feed options available to me here with out ordering on line. The freight would make this impossible to sustain even a 1/4 of my birds if I did that. Blue Seal is an option but I've had bad experiences in the past with them. I know they've changed hands again but ......I'll try them tomorrow. I've got nothing to lose right?

This was a necropsy done at the state university. Orono is where all of the animal testing is done in the state. Cornell, finally got me hooked up with them after I was told they, Orono, couldn't see any samples for 1 - 3 months, back in June.

I hope that you or anyone else doesn't have to go through this either. Last year I had no problems at all raising my layers or the 2 sets of meat birds we did. None. Beginner's luck? Maybe, but this years were treated the same way. No clue.

 

[centrarchid]

Somehow cocci are getting from outdoors to brooder. Consider how you clean and recharge waters and feeders. Are they switched between locations? Are birds in brooder able to pick dirt off your shoes or hands? Do you give them fresh greens or other semi-live food while in brooder? It does not take much dust to move cocci around either. In a brooder, even one bird with a light cocci infection can be a typhoid Mary since infected birds poo much more likely to be consumed than if birds were outside.

 

[off-grid hen]

See, I had the opposite experience. Last year, I switched from Dumor to Blue Seal and was thrilled with the results. I have since switched to Poulin, but I was super happy with blue seal at the time. Once the chicks were old enough I used eggmaker crumbles. Particularly notable was the change in the smell of the droppings. I had a VERY stinky brooder with Dumor. With blue seal it was significantly less odor.

Bottom line: no, it couldn't hurt.

Edit- I would also try a necropsy at Cornell. Not sure how much that would cost you, though.

 

[Haunted55]

Somehow cocci are getting from outdoors to brooder. Consider how you clean and recharge waters and feeders. Are they switched between locations? Are birds in brooder able to pick dirt off your shoes or hands? Do you give them fresh greens or other semi-live food while in brooder? It does not take much dust to move cocci around either. In a brooder, even one bird with a light cocci infection can be a typhoid Mary since infected birds poo much more likely to be consumed than if birds were outside.

I know and I've gone round and round with this from the begining. In the brooders, each group of birds had their own for 2 months. From there they were put into 3' x 5' pens. There was no need for us to step into these pens as their food and water could be reached from the door of each. The only time we were inside the pens was to clean and the chickens were not. They were put into cages, solid wood bottom, and placed outside. Their food and water containers are their own. I don't mix them between pens or birds. These are rinsed out daily with a vinegar and water solution and hard washed weekly with hot water and soap, rinsed with water that has bleach added, rinsed with clear water till no smell remains and then dried in the sun if possible, if not then with paper towels. New for each container. Heck, I've even run them through my dishwasher, 140 degree water and the bleach based dishwasher soap and then put them through again with no soap or rinse agent. Is it too clean? Makes about as much sense as anything else right now.

 

[Haunted55]

See, I had the opposite experience. Last year, I switched from Dumor to Blue Seal and was thrilled with the results. I have since switched to Poulin, but I was super happy with blue seal at the time. Once the chicks were old enough I used eggmaker crumbles. Particularly notable was the change in the smell of the droppings. I had a VERY stinky brooder with Dumor. With blue seal it was significantly less odor.

Bottom line: no, it couldn't hurt.

Edit- I would also try a necropsy at Cornell. Not sure how much that would cost you, though.

Cornell may very well be my next stop if I have another loss. But, they are the ones who got in touch with Orono for me and said to go there. And the Vet who did this necropsy is now retired from teaching but trained the Vet at Cornell. Another member here on BYC, leadwolf, has given me the info for the lab she uses. I may contact them if I can set it up so I can do an overnight without the hassles I went through here. Don't know and really hope I don't have to make the decision.

I will try the Blue Seal tomorrow.

 

[Haunted55]

Somehow cocci are getting from outdoors to brooder. Consider how you clean and recharge waters and feeders. Are they switched between locations? Are birds in brooder able to pick dirt off your shoes or hands? Do you give them fresh greens or other semi-live food while in brooder? It does not take much dust to move cocci around either. In a brooder, even one bird with a light cocci infection can be a typhoid Mary since infected birds poo much more likely to be consumed than if birds were outside.

I missed something here, the only treats they had was meal worms. The only other thing they ever had was hardboiled eggs chopped and sprinkled on their food occasionally. Could they have caught flies in their house? Of course. Did I see it? No.

 

[centrarchid]

I missed something here, the only treats they had was meal worms. The only other thing they ever had was hardboiled eggs chopped and sprinkled on their food occasionally. Could they have caught flies in their house? Of course. Did I see it? No.

BOOM BABY! FLIES! They do not have to catch flies for the insect to be a vector. All fly has to do is walk over infected poo / soil then land on food in brooder transferring spores. Flies are nown to vector all sorts of goodies on their feet. Can you deny flies access to brooder?