Coccidios Not Responding to Corid or Sulmet

[centrarchid]

Reason I asked about feed is in regard to its age and possible quallity owing to storage. On two separate occasions i have purchssed feed that was bad. With one bag which was fungused, signs were not too dissimilar to what you reported.


Do you see a run date / expiration date stamped in bag?

 

[galanie]

Just curious. What type of bedding do they have in the coop?

For these guys, pine shavings.  The others have sand.

Ah, ok. well I doubt then that is has anything to do wiht it. You did state that you put sphagnum moss in the dust bath. I've been told that nothing will hold and grow pathogens in a coop like sphagnum moss but in a dust bath with all that other stuff, I doubt that could be the source.

 

[Haunted55]

Reason I asked about feed is in regard to its age and possible quallity owing to storage. On two separate occasions i have purchssed feed that was bad. With one bag which was fungused, signs were not too dissimilar to what you reported.


Do you see a run date / expiration date stamped in bag?

I never buy more than I can fit in a galvanized rubbish barrel. I just don't have the room for storage yet. I always check the date because I started having problems with the FR having clumps in it. Not moldy, just clumps. Won't use it if it has lumps. I don't think it's TS's workers either, I know most of them and they know not to have the grain in the rain or where it's wet. I think the problem is with the shipping company. They just don't seem to care and who knows, their trucks may leak.

I'm also starting to save all of the tags and strips with the run and dates. With what's already going on here and the up coming troubles with the aflatoxins I think it's a good idea to keep really good records from now on. I staple them together with a piece of paper with the date purchased and date finished.

 

[Haunted55]

Ah, ok. well I doubt then that is has anything to do wiht it. You did state that you put sphagnum moss in the dust bath. I've been told that nothing will hold and grow pathogens in a coop like sphagnum moss but in a dust bath with all that other stuff, I doubt that could be the source.

Well, ya know, i switched my layers room over to sand to keep anything from building up in there. I've read that as long as it's clean [I do add DE and a bit of sweet pdx to it as well] and kept up, the oocytes don't like it very much. The sand and the DE cut their little bodies. Oh poor little oocytes, yeah right.

The sick or other birds are on the shavings because they are changed so often. This may be changing as I just had sand delivered that is a course/sharp sand. I think I'll try it in one and go from there.

 

[Haunted55]

How about some good news for a change, I've had a little mallard and pekin hatch out today. Still awaiting the chicks. I have heard a bit of peeping for the incubator but can't see well enough to know if any are pipping as of yet. It all comes down to the door being shut and a window opened doesn't it?

Today is a good day! Between the help here and the babies born.....yup, it's a good day. Thanks again so very much everyone.

 

[Haunted55]

After calling the college, I finally got a copy of the necropsy report emailed to me. A lot of what is in here is not what was said during the phone call after the Vet had finished the necropsy and right now I don't know what to think. I'll put it here and maybe you can get something out of it that I may be missing.


Species: Avian,Chicken
Black Jersey Giant hen, 22 weeks old, died Friday, Sept 21; arrived at the lab via mail on Sept. 26, necropsy on Sept. 27. body weight 1.5 lbs.; skin in the abdominal area was green-blueish discolored.
Breast muscles were thin and keel bone was prominent but firm and straight. Feathers below the vent were moderately soiled with fecal matter and urates.
The leg bones were firm and the feet clean. The beak was prominent. There was some mucus in the nasal passages.
Remnants of the thymus gland and bursa of Fabricius were of normal size for this age.
Cervical nerves, brachial, lumbar, sciatic plexus, Remaks and sciatic nerve showed no gross abnormalities.
Size and shape of the liver was normal. There was a small, lentil sized nodule on the ventral margin of the left liver lobe.
The spleen was slightly enlarged (in relation to the size of the bird) and mottled and pale. The ovary was underdeveloped for this age. The kidney was pale brown with no apparent lesions.
There a small amount of mucus in the trachea and bronchial bifurcation. The lungs were of normal pink color, but slightly edematous. There was one pinhead sized pale spot in the right lobe with a 1 mm wide reddish ring around it.
The bone marrow in the femur was pale.
There were no apparent lesions in the esophagus. The crop was filled with yellowish slightly moist mash resembling chicken feed. The lining of the esophagus, crop, and proventriculus was w/o apparent lesions. There was little feed in the gizzard and some grit pebbles.
The pancreas showed no apparent lesions.
The abdominal cavity was filled will rather large, moist and distended intestines and the wall of the mid section small intestines was reddish discolored. The intestines contained a moderate amount of mucus and small amount of undigested feed. The mucus of the midsection of the small intestines was of reddish color and contained a moderate to high amount of coccidia oocysts and some irregular crystals.
Summary of the Findings:

Intestinal coccidiosis
Anemia
No lesions suggestive of Marek’s disease
Severe retardation and loss of muscle mass
Conclusions:

None of the gross pathological lesions, including the coccidiosis, can fully explain the extremely severe retardation of the body size of the bird.
Marek’s disease was not the cause of death or retardation.
Drug overdosing may be a factor in the anemia.
Nutrient imbalance or deficiency in the feed may be a factor (feed sample analysis is recommended).
Other advices:

1. use of any vaccine other than Marek’s vaccines should be discontinued..
2. Use Chick starter feed medicated feed for 8 weeks; chick grower feed with 14 to 16% protein and coccidiosis medication up to 16 weeks and non-medicated feed thereafter.
3. Make sure feed and water is available ad lib for growing birds
4. Cull severely retarded birds. They will not catch up even under best circumstances and will remain seeders of problems, such as coccidia oocysts, because of their lower immune defenses.

 

[chicknadventure]

sounds to me like they are saying that something was wrong with the feed-either not enough or it was bad, and that the cocci, while present, wasnt the source of death. The feed or lack of it was. So get new feed, and your birds will be fine. ANd discontinue all medications except the sulmet. He was overdosed.

 

[Haunted55]

sounds to me like they are saying that something was wrong with the feed-either not enough or it was bad, and that the cocci, while present, wasnt the source of death. The feed or lack of it was. So get new feed, and your birds will be fine. ANd discontinue all medications except the sulmet. He was overdosed.

It sure wasn't lack of feed. If you could see my feed bills..... I am going to send in a sample of the feed for analysis, but this thing about overdosing her on Corid. The doses were a week apart or more. With vitamins and probiotics in between. As for the Sulmet, the Vet flipped out when I told him I had given a course of the Sulmet. I mean totaly freaked.

 

[chicknadventure]

sorry-I wasnt accusing you of starving your birds. I apologize if it came across that way. It is possible though that this guy was being blocked from feed maybe by a bigger bird?

 

[Haunted55]

sorry-I wasnt accusing you of starving your birds. I apologize if it came across that way. It is possible though that this guy was being blocked from feed maybe by a bigger bird?

No, I'm the one that's sorry, I didn't mean to bite your head off! I am sooo very angry about this report. The Vet said one thing and wrote down another.

I always make sure the birds get to eat their share and it is always available to them. The feeders are oversized for the number of birds in the pens and are filled or topped off daily. In the evening I stand with each group of birds and make sure that all of them are eating. If I see one hanging back I make sure they are given room at the feeder or their own dish. Even when my husband helps me with the chores, I make sure I spend time with each group of birds so I can check their health and overall appearence. I am a firm believer in vitamins and have given this to them in their water usually every other day, except when they were getting the Corid, from the time they got here.

There are no answers here. I think that's the worst part of it all. If it's a viralent form of cocci then what's the drug of choice? I don't think culling is the answer. Even if I did that the ground is still going to be tainted so starting over in the Spring isn't a reasonable option either.

thanks so much for your reply and again forgive my rudeness. It was never directed towards you.