Cochin breeding, genetics, and showing

[ki4got]

So what I would want to do is build to the best type possible and not be concerned with any thing to do with colors except to keep the white pure white. Is that correct?
i did read somewhere here that the white should be breed back to black to strengthen type. Is this correct?

nope. again incorrect... the type on most whites i've seen is awesome, if they came from a reputable breeder.

the same for a number of blacks.

so if you want to improve type on a white, go to a better breeder of whites. don't color cross or you'll spend years getting back to a nice pure white.

the ONLY time i would outcross to another color, would be with some of the rarer colors that are harder to find. like the silver and gold laced, you *could* cross together if you've got one that's much better than the other, and spend a couple generations getting back to the proper color. or worst case, you could outcross one of those to the columbian/buff columbian, or partridge/silver penciled, since both of those varieties include mutations needed for lacing. that kind of thing. those are merely side-steps from what you have/want.

but both black and white may hide a number of mutations that are not desirable and may be difficult to get rid of once they crop up.

 

[SimpleHarmony]

I would like to know more about the whites. Mostly the talk is about the dark colors. Is there a reason for that? I only know what I have read here so would really like to know. I like the whites very much and would like to learn a little about the genetics for them.
Are they used in any way to breed other colors or are they only good for breeding more whites? What would happen if I breed a white with a blue? Also is there a difference in what way the colors are bred. For instance does it make a difference if I bred a white rooster to a blue female as opposed to a blue rooster to a white female?
I am just trying to understand before I waste a lot of time.

I am a newby when it comes to chickens but I breed lionhead rabbits and this is what I know of the white variety: Genotype is what that variety (color) contains genetically. Phenotype is the variety or color you see. The white variety is not void of color. Genetically it may be a black, blue, buff or any number of variety (colors) but it always contains the gene that makes its' phenotype white. Simply speaking, that white bird is not white. You just cannot see what color or variety it is. I wouldn't say you can't or shouldn't breed with another variety but you should know what you are working with and have a goal in mind when doing so. With rabbits, we keep at least a 4 generation pedigree and that still does not guarantee that a surprise won't pop out, but keeping good records will minimize surprises. I hope this helps.

Mary

 

[annewandering]

Thanks for the help, everyone. Mary, I ran out of rep for your help but will get back as soon as possible.
ok now I will go off and do my planning.

 

[lilcrow]

I don't breed White Cochins, however I do know that there is a dominant white and recessive white and they both behave in their own way. It is almost impossible to breed any breed or variety of chicken with no concern for the color and this may also refer to the quality of the feather. I've seen White Cochins that sometimes have a problem with their feather, i.e., they can get a bit stringy, and this is not just poorly bred birds either. If you want to breed Whites I would suggest that you go to some shows, find some breeders that are winning in the variety you like and want to breed and then talk with them about the birds and what to look for positive and negative.

 

[AndyCap]

Hi everyone,

i am trying to narrow down the genetics of my partridge cockerel, he seems to have Mottling genes as he has produced two mottled chicks.
One from a cross to black for type improvement,



and one from a Partridge X Partridge mating, this girl on the right now has a full white chest and mottling all over.



I understand that the mottled gene is recessive, so two copies need to exist to express, But does that mean my cockerel is mo/Mo+ split? He doesn't have any mottling on him, nor do my hens or does that mean that my partridge hen and black hen both have a copy of mo? Is there an easy way for me to track this down?

I have also read that mottling can appear on a bird that only had one copy, but that generally is a few spots, and not the wholesale mottling i am seeing in my F1's.

While i do enjoy the look of the mottled birds, i need to understand my boy's genetics, as i want to use him in a SL project down the road, and think the mottling will give me headaches in the future. I dont have any info from their lines to go on.

Lastly, if i breed the f1 mottled partridge pullet back to the cockerel, that should result in a 25% split for the chicks?

My logic being both if parents are Mo/mo
25% mo/mo - mottling
50% Mo/mo - no mottling, split
25% Mo/Mo - no mottling

Or if my boy was mo/mo then
50% Mo/mo - no mottling, split
50% Mo/Mo - Mottling

 

[ki4got]

Hi everyone,

i am trying to narrow down the genetics of my partridge cockerel, he seems to have Mottling genes as he has produced two mottled chicks.
One from a cross to black for type improvement,



and one from a Partridge X Partridge mating, this girl on the right now has a full white chest and mottling all over.



I understand that the mottled gene is recessive, so two copies need to exist to express, But does that mean my cockerel is mo/Mo+ split? He doesn't have any mottling on him, nor do my hens or does that mean that my partridge hen and black hen both have a copy of mo? Is there an easy way for me to track this down?

I have also read that mottling can appear on a bird that only had one copy, but that generally is a few spots, and not the wholesale mottling i am seeing in my F1's.

While i do enjoy the look of the mottled birds, i need to understand my boy's genetics, as i want to use him in a SL project down the road, and think the mottling will give me headaches in the future. I dont have any info from their lines to go on.

Lastly, if i breed the f1 mottled partridge pullet back to the cockerel, that should result in a 25% split for the chicks?

My logic being both if parents are Mo/mo
25% mo/mo - mottling
50% Mo/mo - no mottling, split
25% Mo/Mo - no mottling

Or if my boy was mo/mo then
50% Mo/mo - no mottling, split
50% Mo/Mo - Mottling

mottling is recessive, and requires both parents to carry it... chances are, someone you got your birds from used a mottled to help with type maybe. it can be carried for generations without popping up then you put the right birds together and BAM! guess what?! lol

if cochins are as few and far between as you've said, it's quite possible someone used the best typed birds they had to improve type (or didn't care about coloration) and that's what you ended up with.

 

[austyn_stephenson]

this is my only Cochin I have! He is a White Cochin Bantam and is the cutest thing ever! I need to find him some girlfriends! Should I breed him to some whites or mix him with another color??

 

[Funky Feathers]

Just whites.

 

[annewandering]

this is my only Cochin I have! He is a White Cochin Bantam and is the cutest thing ever! I need to find him some girlfriends! Should I breed him to some whites or mix him with another color??

Might try a frizzle. They are really pretty, not just unique, in white cochin. I am planning on that myself!

 

[AndyCap]

I found this advice for someone who was trying to improve type on laced birds(will add link when i find it), and thought i could apply it to my project of trying to improve partridge here in South Africa.

The conversation was between Tom Roebuck, Coopa Cabana(Gail) and Matt, who offered the advice below.

"I am suggesting this only because I have tried it with partridge. I know it works to improve type with them and I believe it would work with any pencilled or laced variety.
Take your best golden laced female and cross on a mottled male. The resulting cross will be black with a golden/creamy hackle. Take the best male or two that comes from this
cross and hopefully he might have some lacing on the breast and discard all females. Breed the male with your very best golden females again. Around half of the offspring will be
golden laced. Some will be the golden-black birds. You may have some silver laced, as I had some silver pencilled. Breeding the best goldens to each other then will give you 100% goldens.
You will now have wider feather, which will help with the quality of the lacing. Lacing quality will not be affected by the outcross to the mottled like it would if you crossed out to a
black or white. You will still need to select for best ground color etc., but type will be improved substantially. Hope this idea serves some good for those interested in working on
pencilled or laced varieties."

"You may have some silver laced, as I had some silver pencilled"
my only problem with this is, that this assumes that male mottled black birds are S/S Silver, where i know that black mottled can be created by crossing partridge male(Mo/mo s+/s+) to black hen (Mo/mo s+), giving you a s+/s+ mo/mo mottled male.

Because i want to try and improve both partridge and create silver pencilled this would never give me silver pencilled from crossing to my mottled black cockerel. I cant buy silver pencilled here either in any quality. So is the only other option to use Columbian? Cross columbian with partridge, take a f1 het male (S/s+) and cross back to partridge to get silver pencilled? Not even sure this option would work, as the Columbian here are very poorly typed.

Edit - to add link.
link here