Consolidated Kansas

[Hawkeye95]

Okay, whew-- I missed a lot posts, I read them, but figured if I replied to everyone, it would be a 2 pager. Sheesh.

Soooo, I am freaking out. I have called three places looking for square bales of hay for this winter and everyone has sold the whole lot of hay to someone else. Yikes!!! I am thinking about driving down to Wichita tomorrow with my trailer because several folks still have prairie hay down there for less than $9 a bale!

Should have done this sooner, now its all gone and my horses are going to starve. I know, I know, I am being dramatic. But I truly do worry about feeding them this winter and our pasture is all gone so I have burned through what little hay was left from last winter. Ugh, thank heavens the extra horse is leaving next Saturday!

Yeah, that's why I started a few months ago. I got my round bales delivered to me a while back and I'm lucky I have a tractor with a spike where I can move them around.

Just stopping by again to give an update on the possible ordinance change in Rose Hill. The Council will be voting on whether or not to approve my request this Monday, August 6. Hoping that the outcome is positive!

That's fantastic!! I sure hope you get your chickens! I think it's ridiculous that they aren't allowed. They are quieter and cleaner than a lot of animals.



Okay, so HeChicken was just here this morning... and while we were looking at my layers, she pointed out a couple of my hens that had bumblefoot!! YIKES! So what a disaster too, because it looks like several of them have it. Bleah. So I brought in the worst two (the only ones I could catch at that point). I got the scabs off, but even after soaking in salts (bath salts, mind you, because I don't have Epsom, so I hope that is close enough!) that the plug would not squeeze out. So I had to go digging around in there with a exacto knife. Fun, fun. But honestly, there was very little blood-- like NO blood until you get the plug out and most of the goo. ONce the goo comes out, THEN a bit of blood springs up out of it. But very little. So I hope that was okay... wondering if it should have bled more freely?? I spent quite a bit of time digging around in there with a set of tweezers and the exacto knife. But I got it packed with Triple antibiotic and wrapped back up. I'll check them in a about 2-3 days and see what it looks like. I'm thinking one of them might need to be dug out again, it was very hard to get to it. But maybe it's okay. Having never done it before, I didn't know what I was doing except that I knew I was digging out that nasty white gunk. Of course I took pictures--- oh!! Heather-- WE should have taken a picture together! Darn!

We already soaked her and ready to dig.... (I scrubbed her feet down with a brush while she was soaking to get all dirt off of her)

Digging out the gunk. I should have taken a picture of the nasty white junk that came out... but it was gross and I washed it off fast. BTW-- that hole is DEEP!!!!!

Chicken #1-- this is the first one we did. I left it looking like this--- so after getting bolder with the second and really digging all the crap out, I'm thinking I might have to re-do this bird. I hope not, but once I take off her foot packing, we'll see what it looks like.

All done!!! Lots of tape to hope it stays on

 

[chicken danz]

Wish you would have taken a before picture so I could see what the bumble foot looks like.

 

[HEChicken]

Sunflower, I love that name for your puppy. I am terrible at naming pets (hence most of my flock remains name-less). My kids named a BO "Scramble" when she was a chick and that stuck. Cyrus and Suzette came with names. And just a few weeks ago my grey hen finally got a name. I wanted her to have a special name but for the hens, favor the old-fashioned names. So she is Matilda, because it is an old-fashioned name and because I am an Aussie and Waltzing Matilda is our unofficial anthem. I am incubating some eggs right now and when DD and I saw movement in one of Matilda's eggs we said "Its waltzing!" Yeah, yeah, crazy sense of humor, I know.

Our cat is named Shiroi, which is the word for white in Japanese because.....he's white. How original.

I am most proud of my dog Sammie's name. Sammie sounds so ordinary, you say. Well, the name she came with was Diamond and we just didn't care for it. She is jet black so I started trying to think of black things to name her after. I love black licorice but couldn't see calling out "Licorice, come!" "Licorice, sit!" for the next 15 years. However there is a black licorice flavored liqueur that I really enjoy, called Sambuca. So we named her "Sambuca" and call her "Sammie" for short. (After we had Sammie, we adopted another dog and she came with the name Tequila, so we got quite a kick out of the fact both our dogs were named after alcohol. Did I mention I have a sick sense of humor?)

Tory came with her name too but doesn't fit into the alcohol theme going on around here....

*****

Well, when Sharol mentioned having to do bumblefoot surgery the other day, I felt quite complacent about not having to deal with such things. The next day I noticed a hen limping a little and checked and yep, I do have to deal with such things. I've checked a few others as well and luckily she is the only one I've found so far. So for those with experience:

I start with soaking in epsom salts, right?

And once its softened I try to pull off the scab and squeeze out the bumble?

If that doesn't work, is surgery the only other option? I'm thinking this is going to be tough to do alone - I really need one person to hold the bird while the other operates. Hopefully I can get DD to help me out. I hate the idea of operating without a local but I suppose if losing the bird altogether is the alternative, its what I might have to do. I need to go back out this afternoon so will get epsom salts and vet wrap.

Hawkeye - so nice to meet you this morning! You have a lovely place out there and have done a great job of describing your neighborhood, and of course a great job on your coop.

 

[HEChicken]

Okay, well, while I was writing, you were posting Hawkeye! Wow, you are a fast worker. I didn't find anywhere on my way home to stop and get the epsom salts and also need the vet wrap so I'll have to wait until I go out later.

Danz, the bumblefoot that I initially saw on Loralee's birds was visible as a swelling on top of the foot between two toes. When you look at the underside of the foot, it is a black circle that is a scab. We were able to pick/flick the top of the scab off pretty easily and under that is a little gooey junk. The actual bumble is a staph infection and the pus turns very hard. Once you have it open you can squeeze/pull the bumble out of the foot. Then, as Loralee said, it needs to be packed with triple antibiotic and wrapped, because if you put them back out on the ground with an open sore, they will just pick up more infection.

 

[Hawkeye95]

Wish you would have taken a before picture so I could see what the bumble foot looks like.

Not to worry Danz!! I have a couple more birds to do-- maybe later today if I can catch them! If so, I'll take a "before" picture and show you what the bumble foot looks like before you do anything with it.

Sunflower, I love that name for your puppy. I am terrible at naming pets (hence most of my flock remains name-less). My kids named a BO "Scramble" when she was a chick and that stuck. Cyrus and Suzette came with names. And just a few weeks ago my grey hen finally got a name. I wanted her to have a special name but for the hens, favor the old-fashioned names. So she is Matilda, because it is an old-fashioned name and because I am an Aussie and Waltzing Matilda is our unofficial anthem. I am incubating some eggs right now and when DD and I saw movement in one of Matilda's eggs we said "Its waltzing!" Yeah, yeah, crazy sense of humor, I know.

Our cat is named Shiroi, which is the word for white in Japanese because.....he's white. How original.

I am most proud of my dog Sammie's name. Sammie sounds so ordinary, you say. Well, the name she came with was Diamond and we just didn't care for it. She is jet black so I started trying to think of black things to name her after. I love black licorice but couldn't see calling out "Licorice, come!" "Licorice, sit!" for the next 15 years. However there is a black licorice flavored liqueur that I really enjoy, called Sambuca. So we named her "Sambuca" and call her "Sammie" for short. (After we had Sammie, we adopted another dog and she came with the name Tequila, so we got quite a kick out of the fact both our dogs were named after alcohol. Did I mention I have a sick sense of humor?)

Tory came with her name too but doesn't fit into the alcohol theme going on around here....

*****

Well, when Sharol mentioned having to do bumblefoot surgery the other day, I felt quite complacent about not having to deal with such things. The next day I noticed a hen limping a little and checked and yep, I do have to deal with such things. I've checked a few others as well and luckily she is the only one I've found so far. So for those with experience:

I start with soaking in epsom salts, right?

And once its softened I try to pull off the scab and squeeze out the bumble?

If that doesn't work, is surgery the only other option? I'm thinking this is going to be tough to do alone - I really need one person to hold the bird while the other operates. Hopefully I can get DD to help me out. I hate the idea of operating without a local but I suppose if losing the bird altogether is the alternative, its what I might have to do. I need to go back out this afternoon so will get epsom salts and vet wrap.

Hawkeye - so nice to meet you this morning! You have a lovely place out there and have done a great job of describing your neighborhood, and of course a great job on your coop.

Heather, I ended up using soaking salts I had around the house for baths. It said it had some sea salt, etc.... figured that was close enough, right? All we're trying to do is draw out the gunk and get it all softened up so you can squeeze and pull it out. I could not squeeze them out, though. I did have to resort to the knife.

Okay, well, while I was writing, you were posting Hawkeye! Wow, you are a fast worker. I didn't find anywhere on my way home to stop and get the epsom salts and also need the vet wrap so I'll have to wait until I go out later.

Danz, the bumblefoot that I initially saw on Loralee's birds was visible as a swelling on top of the foot between two toes. When you look at the underside of the foot, it is a black circle that is a scab. We were able to pick/flick the top of the scab off pretty easily and under that is a little gooey junk. The actual bumble is a staph infection and the pus turns very hard. Once you have it open you can squeeze/pull the bumble out of the foot. Then, as Loralee said, it needs to be packed with triple antibiotic and wrapped, because if you put them back out on the ground with an open sore, they will just pick up more infection.

Yeah, while we were just looking at her feet out in the pen, I flicked off the top of the scab and Heather tried to squeeze it out--- but it didn't want to just squeeze out. After it was soaked in really hot water, then it was more runny/squishy, but still had to dig it out.

OH!! and YES do have two people!! I had my son hold the towel over her body and hold her down. When I started digging around, she squawked and tried to get away. But after a while, she just laid there calmly while I dug and dug... poor thing. I think it was the initial-- am I being killed??? After she decided I was just messing with her feet, she settled down, but if my son hadn't been holding her down, we'd have had a bird flying around the house! LOL

 

[chicken danz]

Oh geez! I hope I never have to deal with that. I've had a couple limpers but when they were examined it was a joint issue, probably from fighting since they've been roosters.

 

[sharol]

Since we are back on the bumblefoot topic, I'll update you.

I did surgery on the rooster and my EE hen. He had a nasty spiky bumble that came out fairly easily, but almost no pus. I wrapped his feet with vet wrap for 36 hours and then removed it and soaked his feet in tricide neo that evening. He is getting soaks each morning with the other chickens.

Lily, the EE, is a mess. My DD and I did the surgery last fall, but we didn't get rid of the infection completely in spite of digging around in there for what seemed like forever. Yesterday morning (home alone, naturally) when I was soaking feet in tricide neo), the scab came off of the lesser of the bumblefeet (bumblefoots?) when I checked it after soaking. Because this was a recurrance, I hadn't planned to dig around on her feet. She isn't limping and didn't appear to be in pain. It was bleeding ALOT. I ended up with blood droplets all over the counter, sink, and floor (porcelain tile, thank goodness). I finally got her calmed down and confined in a towel and tried to work out the infection. Honestly, there was NO Pus at all. There was a bumble attached to the scab that came off, though. I used vet wrap (thankfully it was already cut in strips). Then last night I had my DH help me with her again. I soaked her feet in epsom salts for about 5 minutes and we removed the bigger scab on the other foot and worked that around for a while. It didn't seem to bleed as much, and again, no pus. I really think she will probably die from this because I just can't cut on her any more. She is about 2 and looks fairly ragged. She is the one the dachshund got to a year ago, and she hasn't done a full molt. I think probably because she isn't healthy enough to molt. Her feathers are ragged and missing in a couple of places where the dog pulled them out (yes, a year ago). Through all this she has laid 5 eggs a week.

As I see it, the only real help for Lily would be real surgery from someone who actually knows what he/she is doing, i.e. my vet, and I just can't afford it. She doesn't seem to be in pain even after the surgery -- man, chickens are tough.

The others with little spots are getting tricide soaks every morning. Pictures are out of the question. My DH is going beyond the call of duty holding them for surgery, and asking for help for pictures is probably pressing my luck.

https://www.google.com/search?q=bum...Q&biw=1330&bih=649&sei=7DEcUMzSBemY2wWo0oCABg is a search in Google for bumblefoot chicken and there are lots of pictures there that look accurate to me.

Like I said before, I really think it is lots more prevalent than we would like to believe.

 

[HEChicken]

I'm starting to wonder if its more common that we first realized. Several of Loralee's birds had it even though there was no limping or visible swelling from the top. This afternoon I looked at Matilda and even though I looked at hers the other day, today I saw that what I previously took for dirt is actually a bumble. I've decided I'm not going to treat her right away since she is not limping at all. She is one who likes to stand in the water to cool off, so if I can wait until Fall when its not so hot and she doesn't want to spend all day in the water, that would make healing easier. The problem is, in taking the bumble out, it creates quite a deep hole in the foot that has to be covered until it is fully healed and that could take weeks. And, it will mean changing the dressings regularly. I need to treat my one hen who is limping from it but I think I'll wait on any that are not limping, at least until the worst of the summer is over. But seeing as we found so many in a short space of time (between mine and Loralee's), I'm wondering if lots of chickens and ducks are wandering around with bumbles that aren't bothering them at all and perhaps don't even need treatment? I think I need to research this more.

Danz, if you have any that are easy to grab and pick up, look at the soles of their feet. If there is a black dot on the cushion of the foot, that is a bumble.

 

[HEChicken]

Thanks for the update Sharol. Looks like you were typing and posting the same time I was! Yes, those pictures look just like what we are seeing - fortunately none that look as bad as some of those though.

I'm sorry about Lily - I hope this time you were able to get it all. I'm not familiar with the tricide neo you mentioned - where do you get that?

As I understand it, chickens don't develop liquid pus as we do, but the bumble itself IS the pus - in a hardened form instead of liquid. Someone posted a link to a YouTube video of a surgery a few days ago. I recognized the YouTube poster as another BYC'er by the name of ADoznGrls or something like that. Perhaps it was Michelle who posted the link? Anyway, I did watch that whole video and while I hated the idea all of that was happening on a bird that didn't have any local anesthetic, I did find it very educational as to how to treat this disorder. It was only a few days ago so shouldn't be very many pages back. Oh wait, this is Consolidated Kansas we're talking about - I guess it *could* be quite a few pages back.

 

[Hawkeye95]

Since we are back on the bumblefoot topic, I'll update you.

I did surgery on the rooster and my EE hen. He had a nasty spiky bumble that came out fairly easily, but almost no pus. I wrapped his feet with vet wrap for 36 hours and then removed it and soaked his feet in tricide neo that evening. He is getting soaks each morning with the other chickens.

Lily, the EE, is a mess. My DD and I did the surgery last fall, but we didn't get rid of the infection completely in spite of digging around in there for what seemed like forever. Yesterday morning (home alone, naturally) when I was soaking feet in tricide neo), the scab came off of the lesser of the bumblefeet (bumblefoots?) when I checked it after soaking. Because this was a recurrance, I hadn't planned to dig around on her feet. She isn't limping and didn't appear to be in pain. It was bleeding ALOT. I ended up with blood droplets all over the counter, sink, and floor (porcelain tile, thank goodness). I finally got her calmed down and confined in a towel and tried to work out the infection. Honestly, there was NO Pus at all. There was a bumble attached to the scab that came off, though. I used vet wrap (thankfully it was already cut in strips). Then last night I had my DH help me with her again. I soaked her feet in epsom salts for about 5 minutes and we removed the bigger scab on the other foot and worked that around for a while. It didn't seem to bleed as much, and again, no pus. I really think she will probably die from this because I just can't cut on her any more. She is about 2 and looks fairly ragged. She is the one the dachshund got to a year ago, and she hasn't done a full molt. I think probably because she isn't healthy enough to molt. Her feathers are ragged and missing in a couple of places where the dog pulled them out (yes, a year ago). Through all this she has laid 5 eggs a week.

As I see it, the only real help for Lily would be real surgery from someone who actually knows what he/she is doing, i.e. my vet, and I just can't afford it. She doesn't seem to be in pain even after the surgery -- man, chickens are tough.

The others with little spots are getting tricide soaks every morning. Pictures are out of the question. My DH is going beyond the call of duty holding them for surgery, and asking for help for pictures is probably pressing my luck.

https://www.google.com/search?q=bum...Q&biw=1330&bih=649&sei=7DEcUMzSBemY2wWo0oCABg is a search in Google for bumblefoot chicken and there are lots of pictures there that look accurate to me.

Like I said before, I really think it is lots more prevalent than we would like to believe.

I agree, Sharol that it is more common than we thought. I'm wondering the same as Heather--- do ALL of them need treatment.. or just the ones that are really big and swelling? I noticed some smaller bumbles and larger ones. Now obviously, the picture I took of the HUGE HOLE in my birds foot-- that is the bird that had horrific swelling on top of her foot. How did I miss this??? I think I will continue to check birds regularly and only do surgery on the ones that are looking big and nasty. Otherwise, I'm going to potentially have an entire flock in little gauze wrappings. Sigh. I hope your bird does okay.

My Polish are VERY ragged. They have been pecked on horribly by the barred rocks and wyandottes. So they have next to no tails at all. But I was showing Heather that they have bare butts and bare spots on them that aren't growing back in. Is this because they have something more systemic gong on-- like an infection, or because they are hatchery birds and they are of poor quality? Something more to think on, but I'm wondering if it could be related to bumble?

I'm starting to wonder if its more common that we first realized. Several of Loralee's birds had it even though there was no limping or visible swelling from the top. This afternoon I looked at Matilda and even though I looked at hers the other day, today I saw that what I previously took for dirt is actually a bumble. I've decided I'm not going to treat her right away since she is not limping at all. She is one who likes to stand in the water to cool off, so if I can wait until Fall when its not so hot and she doesn't want to spend all day in the water, that would make healing easier. The problem is, in taking the bumble out, it creates quite a deep hole in the foot that has to be covered until it is fully healed and that could take weeks. And, it will mean changing the dressings regularly. I need to treat my one hen who is limping from it but I think I'll wait on any that are not limping, at least until the worst of the summer is over. But seeing as we found so many in a short space of time (between mine and Loralee's), I'm wondering if lots of chickens and ducks are wandering around with bumbles that aren't bothering them at all and perhaps don't even need treatment? I think I need to research this more.

Danz, if you have any that are easy to grab and pick up, look at the soles of their feet. If there is a black dot on the cushion of the foot, that is a bumble.

Yes-- I was shocked when I started picking up birds how many had them! If so.... then will any flock ever be without it? And if that is the case, then does every single case need to be treated? I'm thinking not. Like I said before-- check and treat the worst cases. Possibly run an antibiotic?? But if so, then what? My Denagard is for respiratory. What would be a more broad spectrum like penicillin? But something I can dump in the water for a few days? WOW... I agree, this needs to be researched more. I think there is much we don't know about it.