Consolidated Kansas

[HEChicken]

I am so happy that I am going to have a nice little coop by the end of this month It is just an 8x12.. but that should be good enough for what I'm doing. I am going to put in a 12' roost across the entire coop (how high up should I put the roost??) and some nest boxes (how many nest boxes do I need for about 20 layers? and how high from the floor should I put the boxes?) The area under the nest boxes will be used as storage for food bins.

That sounds like a decent size coop! On the roost height, I wouldn't put it too high. Knowing that birds like to roost as high as they can get, I built a ladder style roost where there are roosts at 2, 4 & 6' high. Now I'm having issues with bumblefoot that I never had before because most of them roost on the highest one. So now my next job is to take it apart. I now plan to build it about 3' high and have 2-3 roosts all at the same height. On the nest boxes, the main thing is to have them lower than the roosts, because if they are higher they will just try to sleep in the nest boxes. You will probably need to cover any rafters on your coop or they will try to fly up and roost in the rafters. I stapled chicken wire along underneath mine to prevent them getting up there.

What is the drive time down to OKC, I haven't driven it enough that I just don't know.

I usually allow 3 hours to OKC from Wichita. Since you are already a little south of Wichita, your drive time would probably be less

... You want those boxes pretty low to the ground.

Yeah, I wish I had thought of that when I installed my nest boxes. The bottom is about 18" from the floor and it is a 2-tier box so the top boxes are pretty high up. In addition to redoing my roosts, I will need to lower the nest boxes. Not a huge deal since they are just installed with a couple of screws into studs but a hassle to go down there and do it. It is another job that takes two because of the weight. I need someone to hold one end while I install the first screw....

Actualy HEchicken it is my understanding that it isn't either the male or the female that determines the sex. I'ts a combination of factors and presence of DMRT1. It is hypothesized that it is caused by conceived functional interaction between the W and Z sex chromosomes.
Chickens and other fowl are still being studied, and they are totally different than what we normally know about genetics. There are many influencing factors that cause one sex or another the way I understand it. If you are into biology, here is a link to an excellent paper about it. http://faculty.weber.edu/rmeyers/chicken sex determ.pdf
I've read tons of this stuff cause there is so many disagreements to it. I believe it falls into that category of out of our normal school of thought so we have trouble understanding how it actually works.
Whatever the clue is I do know I have certain roosters that produce more of one sex than another. Not sure what the correlation in the puzzle is but it certainly in my best interest to change roosters and hope for a better outcome. To me it seems like any other genetics. If you end up with undesirable results you cull and replace with better ones.

Interesting. I don't think I'll try to plow through the article because I've never been strong on biology/genetics. I had just always been told it was the hen that determined gender and accepted that. Wouldn't it be cool to find the magic combination that always produces pullets?

Well, we are training Tory to the invisible fence and so far it is going okay although I think she's a little traumatized, poor thing. I've never done this before so for those of you who have, feel free to jump in and give any tips you might have. I *thought* it would give a warning beep and that would be followed by the shock if she didn't turn back but in reality it seems to give the beep and then almost immediately shock so she doesn't have much ability to retreat after the warning. DH says what he read is that the only way to change that is a magnet on the collar (kind of like the pullet shut door can be programmed by a magnet) but we don't have a manual saying how to use the magnet on the collar to get the desired setting. Grrr. Last night I tried having her on leash and walking her slowly to the fence. My thought was that when I heard the beep, I would yell "No" and pull her back before she was shocked, to give her the idea that the beep means retreat. However even though we walked slowly, when I heard the beep, my yell and pull was simultaneous with her getting shocked. She yelped and ran back toward me (at least she didn't go the wrong way). We put her on the tether last night because we didn't want her blundering around getting shocked all night - we want to be there with her to help her understand it. This morning I let her get too close to another perimeter and when it shocked her, she yelped and ran back in, looking back to see what bit her. She didn't seem too upset after that, and continued playing with the other dogs in the safe zone. But later she snuck off to try and go up to our neighbors. DH hid around the corner and watched and when she was shocked, stepped out and called her to him. She came running and then went behind my chair on the porch and didn't venture out for at least 20 minutes. I think she is starting to see the porch as a safe zone and the whole yard seems to be booby-trapped to her.

After morning coffee, my dad and I decided to try to work some more on putting together a dog run I bought on CL and to get there we had to cross the line. I told Tory to stay but she doesn't understand the stay command too well and tried to follow. This time when she was shocked, she ran through it and out into our pasture. She was in a kind of panicked lope - perhaps scared that whatever bit her was chasing her. I was running as fast as I could to get it turned off so I could get her back on the right side of it. I watched her turn and start back towards the house and I think I got it turned off just in the nick of time so she could cross back over the line without being shocked on the way back in. She kept running back to the front porch and has stayed in its vicinity ever since. I feel so bad for her as I'm sure its very confusing. But I don't know any other way to teach her and she does have to learn it. The first few weeks we had her, we didn't see any sign of kleptomania. But this week 4 different dog toys have suddenly appeared in our yard. I know exactly where she is getting them - one was even labeled with our neighbor's name on it - so I can return them but I'm sure they're just a tad annoyed to not only have our dog visit theirs regularly but now steal her toys as well so.....it has to stop.

 

[sunflowerparrot]

Pikeman - I see you painted up the inside of your wall; I plan on doing that too I am going to put the nest boxes inside my coop and not have them as an extension... I was hoping to be able to use underneath as storage, but guess that isn't going to be possible due to them not being up high enough.. I think I might put a storage loft in (the ceiling will be 8') - I just really want a place to store chicken/cat/dog stuff so it is not in the house... Nice coop you have and I love that aqua color!

 

[chicken danz]

Yeah Hawkeye, back when I had a brain I loved reading stuff like that. Anything to do with biology has all been like a big puzzle to me and the more knowledge I gained the more the pieces came into place. However these days, I have to reread some of this a couple times to understand it. I found nothing more defined from any of my other research though. It just wasn't as laid out as this was. I tend to skip the forum opinions on these issues and look more into university or research studies. It sounds like to me that they just don't have a black and white answer.
Same way with hatching in hot weather and the ratio of male to female. I still find that hot weather hatches result in more males. After reading this it seems it could influence sex just by all the variables here. It's my hypothesis and that works for me.
Kind of like changing roosters. My old Salmon Favorelle produced a nice balance number of pullets and cockerels. I have had nothing but cockerels since I started using this one. So it's time to change roosters again and see what happens. Sure wish this little guy would hurry up and mature. He is awesome. He is so much of a big baby, eat out of your hand pet though, I almost hate to turn him into a full time breeder.

 

[HEChicken]

Thank you all for your information about nest boxes and roosts... one other question: Deep Litter - I keep hearing about it and am now ready to decide how to do the floor. I've put 2 coats of paint on the floor just to protect the wood. I was going to get about 6 blocks of the pine shavings (8'x16' area) and dump all that on the bottom - then pile up my mowed cattail stalks. Trish has seen and felt the cattails and she believes that will be ok - but with concern about them holding moisture, I felt it best to put a deeper pine shavings underneath against the flooring. Comments, suggestions, warnings, etc???

Fern update - I was putting a 2nd coat of paint on the coop floor and heard a hawk overhead screaming - I watched as my little pup got up and went over and lied down in front of the chickens! I couldn't believe my eyes She was still there about 20 minutes later. I am a very proud mamma

Yay for Fern!

On the DLM (deep litter method), you don't want to start with too deep a layer. The idea is to mix the shavings with the poop and let it pile up so that after months it is deep but it doesn't start out deep, if that makes sense. I would put a layer of shavings 2-3" deep to start. Then let them poop all over it and then add another bag of shavings and so on. If you get the combination right, it will actually start to compost right there in the coop, and if compost action is happening, sometimes you end up with free heat in the winter

For a really great read and to help understand how it all works, a guy called Gene Logsdon wrote a book called "Holy Poop", only substitute a word starting with "sh" for the word "Poop" since I know the forum won't allow me to use it here. You wouldn't think a book about poop would be that interesting but he writes well and does a great job of explaining how it all works. He does DLM with cattle and says the "manure pack" really warms up his barn in the winter - and he lives around Indiana, Ohio or some place where it gets colder than it does here.

I also wanted to add, when planning your coop, you may want to consider building a storage area into the coop. We end up with a lot of paraphernalia - bins of feed, oyster shell, grit, bedding, chick feeders/waterers not in use, medications etc, and having a place to keep them convenient to where you will need them will save you a lot of going back and forth.

 

[pikeman94]

Pikeman - I see you painted up the inside of your wall; I plan on doing that too I am going to put the nest boxes inside my coop and not have them as an extension... I was hoping to be able to use underneath as storage, but guess that isn't going to be possible due to them not being up high enough.. I think I might put a storage loft in (the ceiling will be 8') - I just really want a place to store chicken/cat/dog stuff so it is not in the house... Nice coop you have and I love that aqua color!

My DD pick that as the color for the last coop. It was a can of $5 paint from Lowe's that someone messed up. It is a good exterior paint so it is nice and thick. I painted up the walls because the girls sometimes fling their poo onto it. It is an idea I picked up from someone else. So far it has paid off.

The nesting box extension was part of the coop plans I found. I wanted as much room inside as possible. So far mission accomplished.

Good luck on your coop and send lots of pictures over.

 

[sunflowerparrot]

For a really great read and to help understand how it all works, a guy called Gene Logsdon wrote a book called "Holy Poop", only substitute a word starting with "sh" for the word "Poop" since I know the forum won't allow me to use it here. You wouldn't think a book about poop would be that interesting but he writes well and does a great job of explaining how it all works. He does DLM with cattle and says the "manure pack" really warms up his barn in the winter - and he lives around Indiana, Ohio or some place where it gets colder than it does here.

------- Thanks! I just downloaded it to my Kindle

 

[JosieChick]

42 posts last night and another 19 this morning, I can't keep up!!

Well, we are training Tory to the invisible fence and so far it is going okay although I think she's a little traumatized, poor thing. I've never done this before so for those of you who have, feel free to jump in and give any tips you might have. I *thought* it would give a warning beep and that would be followed by the shock if she didn't turn back but in reality it seems to give the beep and then almost immediately shock so she doesn't have much ability to retreat after the warning. DH says what he read is that the only way to change that is a magnet on the collar (kind of like the pullet shut door can be programmed by a magnet) but we don't have a manual saying how to use the magnet on the collar to get the desired setting. Grrr. Last night I tried having her on leash and walking her slowly to the fence. My thought was that when I heard the beep, I would yell "No" and pull her back before she was shocked, to give her the idea that the beep means retreat. However even though we walked slowly, when I heard the beep, my yell and pull was simultaneous with her getting shocked. She yelped and ran back toward me (at least she didn't go the wrong way). We put her on the tether last night because we didn't want her blundering around getting shocked all night - we want to be there with her to help her understand it. This morning I let her get too close to another perimeter and when it shocked her, she yelped and ran back in, looking back to see what bit her. She didn't seem too upset after that, and continued playing with the other dogs in the safe zone. But later she snuck off to try and go up to our neighbors. DH hid around the corner and watched and when she was shocked, stepped out and called her to him. She came running and then went behind my chair on the porch and didn't venture out for at least 20 minutes. I think she is starting to see the porch as a safe zone and the whole yard seems to be booby-trapped to her.


After morning coffee, my dad and I decided to try to work some more on putting together a dog run I bought on CL and to get there we had to cross the line. I told Tory to stay but she doesn't understand the stay command too well and tried to follow. This time when she was shocked, she ran through it and out into our pasture. She was in a kind of panicked lope - perhaps scared that whatever bit her was chasing her. I was running as fast as I could to get it turned off so I could get her back on the right side of it. I watched her turn and start back towards the house and I think I got it turned off just in the nick of time so she could cross back over the line without being shocked on the way back in. She kept running back to the front porch and has stayed in its vicinity ever since. I feel so bad for her as I'm sure its very confusing. But I don't know any other way to teach her and she does have to learn it. The first few weeks we had her, we didn't see any sign of kleptomania. But this week 4 different dog toys have suddenly appeared in our yard. I know exactly where she is getting them - one was even labeled with our neighbor's name on it - so I can return them but I'm sure they're just a tad annoyed to not only have our dog visit theirs regularly but now steal her toys as well so.....it has to stop.

Beth at invisible fence down in Wichita actually says it is best to just let them get shocked by the fence with no warning beep. She told us really smart dogs (like pyrs) will actually learn to stand at the beep zone and let their collar battery work to warn beep for a long time until the battery wears down so they can cross the boundary!! When we trained Molly and Lucie they were penned up for several days and I walked both of them separately along the boundary line. It is very traumatic the first couple times it happens, Molly was so terrified she just hid in the pen even when we first started letting them out on their own. I felt so badly but now that they know where the boundaries are they are really good and I love having the fence out there. I wouldn't let her be loose just yet until you are sure she is aware of the boundaries. Have you marked with flags too? I will attach the handbook for sport dog underground fence. Their training guide is really nice. Here is the link to their web page : http://www.sportdog.com/gear/e-collars/all-purpose/sportdog-in-ground-fence-100a/ If you go to that page on the left hand side there is a tab that says download manual and that is their instruction booklet. I felt awful about using the hot dogs tossed over the fence to "tempt" them but you have to eventually test their awareness and we actually had to turn Lucie up because she would withstand getting zapped to run over and grab the piece of hot dog on low! We thought Molly would be the stubborn one with the car chasing but she is on the lowest setting! They are very sensitive to getting zapped, Molly will belly crawl under electric fencing that isn't even hot just in case it is on! Let me know if you are still having a hard time, it took me several days of working on it. Then I had to actually just let them loose because Molly especially thought I was in control of the fence and would hide behind me. I think it is important that they understand the boundary markers and that crossing the line is what "bites" not the person standing nearby!

 

[chicken danz]

I agree with Heather on the deep litter method. I originally read to put 2 inches of litter down and work up from that point. I don't think I use quite that much when I start over though. It adds up fast enough.
Heather I wasn't trying to be disagreeable on the chicken sex thing. I am just one of those biology geeks and really enjoy trying to piece the puzzles together. Either it is very complicated or I have gotten really stupid over the years because it is all difficult for me to understand. I am one of those people who have to know how things work.
I am so lazy today. I've been on the computer all morning. I've got to get out of this chair!!!

 

[michelleml]

Thank you all for your information about nest boxes and roosts... one other question: Deep Litter - I keep hearing about it and am now ready to decide how to do the floor. I've put 2 coats of paint on the floor just to protect the wood. I was going to get about 6 blocks of the pine shavings (8'x16' area) and dump all that on the bottom - then pile up my mowed cattail stalks. Trish has seen and felt the cattails and she believes that will be ok - but with concern about them holding moisture, I felt it best to put a deeper pine shavings underneath against the flooring. Comments, suggestions, warnings, etc???

Fern update - I was putting a 2nd coat of paint on the coop floor and heard a hawk overhead screaming - I watched as my little pup got up and went over and lied down in front of the chickens! I couldn't believe my eyes She was still there about 20 minutes later. I am a very proud mamma

sunflower love the coop and good job Fern

 

[michelleml]

my chickens don't get on the roost. what do i need to do to train them? they are about 13 wks old