Pikeman, How're the hens doing? Have they recovered from the trauma of the hawk attack?
Consolidated Kansas
- Thread starter ChooksChick
- Start date
http://naturalchickenkeeping.blogspot.com/2013/03/benefits-of-fermenting-feed-for.html?m=1
A great article on FF!
Is this feed mill in Thayer easy to find? Would love to find somewhere close to get organic feed!
Is anyone here pasturing? As I mentioned, I will soon have 15+ acres dedicated chicken Pasture. I would love to visit someone's place who does this! How many chickens can I pasture on that much land?
A great article on FF!
Is this feed mill in Thayer easy to find? Would love to find somewhere close to get organic feed!
Is anyone here pasturing? As I mentioned, I will soon have 15+ acres dedicated chicken Pasture. I would love to visit someone's place who does this! How many chickens can I pasture on that much land?
Congrats on your new property! It will be fun to spread out!
It sounds really good! How did the turkey turn out last night? I love turkey with mashed potatoes and gravy... mmmmm. I have never cooked it lower, but that makes a lot of sense. I'll try that next time!Hawkeye, I use a brine recipe where you use kosher salt, sugar, ACV and some spices. I tried it at Thanksgiving and it turned out really good. I am afraid I over cooked my bird. I didn't get the temp turned down on the oven. My stupidity. It is digital and I forgot to hit the reset button so I baked it at 350 and I like baking turkey between 300 and 325 to keep it more moist. I'll find out in a little bit. I have been sick all day with this stupid sinus infection. I finally went out side to feed and water and had to knock down snow from the netting again. I've had that netting for 4 years and never had to do that before but have done it twice this year with the heavy wet snow. At least the temp got up to 34 so a lot of melt off occurred.
RoosterLew I can teach you how to danzsize your flock. How to make 25 birds turn into a few hundred!
Ahhhhh-- well YES, that makes a lot of sense if they are just little trees! I would probably want to do the same thing-- but 70 of them!! Yikes! Where did you get them? I've done a lot of ordering with ArborDay.org, but then haven't gotten anything to live from them. I don't know why. I have better luck with local nurseries, so I gave up on mail order plants. I've spent years planting around this house. I will be sad to see it all go since I picked out each tree for a specific reason or purpose. I can't imagine an apron working without the elastic. I'm sure once you make a "real" one you'll really like them! Keep an eye on the birds and note WHO is doing any of the pecking if they do. You only have to put Pinless Peepers on just the trouble makers.
HeChicken does sort of a form of pasturing. She has a super large chicken yard that is fenced in for protection. But it's definitely not a "run".
Deerfield - All three are doing well. I got an egg from Ginger (RiR) that took the worst of the attack the other day so I think she is back on her game. On another note, that SSX (Safron) is still broody! I am talking to my neighbor to see if she has any fertile eggs. My plan is to stuff a couple under Safron and see what happens. I will let you know how that works out.
I bought 10 rainbow chicks a week or so ago and they really haven't proven to be hardy birds at all. Of the 10, 6 have just died - all my other chicks have done well that came with this group, so I am thinking it is the breed. These are not rainbow layers, these are a breed called Rainbow.
With all the rave reviews of the California Whites, I went and picked up some this morning from Orshlens. I'm done with chick buying! Other than the broilers coming in about 3 weeks, I'm not getting any more chicks this year! UNLESS, some that I hatch are just too cute to sell
Very tired of the cold - I need to get my broiler tractor done.. It won't take long, but it is just too cold to even enjoy doing projects right now. My poor animals are just getting the basic care right now and I'm missing hanging out with them.
With all the rave reviews of the California Whites, I went and picked up some this morning from Orshlens. I'm done with chick buying! Other than the broilers coming in about 3 weeks, I'm not getting any more chicks this year! UNLESS, some that I hatch are just too cute to sell
Very tired of the cold - I need to get my broiler tractor done.. It won't take long, but it is just too cold to even enjoy doing projects right now. My poor animals are just getting the basic care right now and I'm missing hanging out with them.
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Have you been to Thayer? Last time I was there, it was tiny. I can't imagine that it would be hard to find ANYTHING there (if it existed in the first place). I'm originally from Galesburg -- about 8? miles from Thayer on a gravel road.
Originally Posted by sarajoy 
Fermenting chicken food..
I've been buying organic milled chicken feed from a local small mill in Thayer. It took my chickens awhile to adjust, but they now love it. I could buy the same mix, or any mix I choose, unmilled as well. Could anyone tell me what recipes they are using for fermented chicken feed? Do you ferment with just water - like sprouting. Or use whey? I make kefir, so could use kefir whey. I like the idea of this. I do give them a little kefir for probiotics. They don't particularly seem fond of it, though will eat a bit, especially if I sprinkle sunflower seeds on top! Anyways, I'd love to hear from any of you who are feeding fermented chicken food about what your recipes are. Thanks, Sara
I ferment my feed. Huge amounts of it and feed at least 100 pounds (dry weight) of feed a day. I started with Apple cider vinegar, one cup to about a 5 gallon bucket of wet feed. Once the mix got started it tends to maintain itself. If you stir it each day it just keeps fermenting. It only takes about 24 hours for fermentation to begin. It is ready when it starts bubbling up when you stir it. I also added brewers yeast to the mix to increase niacin for the game birds. It bubbles and boils and the birds all love it. My birds are much shinier and healthier. The one thing I have noticed is really really green colored poop. And when I butchered my turkeys their gizzards were emerald green inside. But they were fat. I have never seen a turkey with fat like that. There isn't the chicken poop smell you would normally notice. I forgot how bad it was until I picked up my birds from Frank last week.
Fermenting chicken food..
I've been buying organic milled chicken feed from a local small mill in Thayer. It took my chickens awhile to adjust, but they now love it. I could buy the same mix, or any mix I choose, unmilled as well. Could anyone tell me what recipes they are using for fermented chicken feed? Do you ferment with just water - like sprouting. Or use whey? I make kefir, so could use kefir whey. I like the idea of this. I do give them a little kefir for probiotics. They don't particularly seem fond of it, though will eat a bit, especially if I sprinkle sunflower seeds on top! Anyways, I'd love to hear from any of you who are feeding fermented chicken food about what your recipes are. Thanks, Sara
I ferment my feed. Huge amounts of it and feed at least 100 pounds (dry weight) of feed a day. I started with Apple cider vinegar, one cup to about a 5 gallon bucket of wet feed. Once the mix got started it tends to maintain itself. If you stir it each day it just keeps fermenting. It only takes about 24 hours for fermentation to begin. It is ready when it starts bubbling up when you stir it. I also added brewers yeast to the mix to increase niacin for the game birds. It bubbles and boils and the birds all love it. My birds are much shinier and healthier. The one thing I have noticed is really really green colored poop. And when I butchered my turkeys their gizzards were emerald green inside. But they were fat. I have never seen a turkey with fat like that. There isn't the chicken poop smell you would normally notice. I forgot how bad it was until I picked up my birds from Frank last week.
RoosterLew, since I have no idea how much you do or do not know about raising chickens, I'm going to give you all my best advice and I'm sure it's worth every penny it costs you to have it.
Never take me too seriously, I certainly don't. But you seem to be asking for information here and I want to help since so many helped me. I may sound opinionated and bossy but I don't mean to. I've only been doing chickens for one year and I started with 170 birds. I had a steep learning curve and just want to offer you the benefit of some of that experience. I am not going to criticize or try to control your decisions. This is just information. I tend to be more logical than emotional so if I seem overly blunt, please forgive me, I just don't know how to do it any softer.
Chickens are an investment. Set up a budget first, buy chickens last. Then buy the very best birds you can buy. I didn't because I didn't want to "practice" on great quality birds. Big mistake. Great quality birds are generally healthier constitutionally and you are helping to preserve the real thing that is quickly disappearing. Stay true to your budget in dollars and numbers of birds.
Pasturing on 15 acres comes with a whole set of considerations. Predation being the main one. Also, what purpose are you raising the birds for? If for eggs, how will you know when and where they are laying? How much can you afford in feed because you will still need to supplement their diet. Laying hens also need a calcium supplement such as oyster shell or ground up egg shells. How large a shelter can you provide? Chickens can't live out in the elements 24/7 because they will either freeze to death in winter or die of heat stroke in summer. They need plenty of ventilation in their shelter so any ammonia build up, during those times the coop gets a bit too "fresh", doesn't damage their lunges. How will you provide fresh, clean water? How will you keep them mite free over such a large area? Mites can take a bird out really quickly. Worms can cause birds to become "unthrifty" by not laying up to their potential or not growing up to their potential. Parasites, when they kill, kill much slower than an infestation of mites but in the meantime, you've got less of a producer.
So, It's beautiful to have 15 acres but you will not want to use all that land for chicken pasture or you will simply end up with a lot of well fed coyotes, foxes, neighbor dogs, hawks and owls. Not to mention the occasional bobcat. Sad but true.
If you want the birds for laying hens, it will be best for you to set up a coop with a rotating pasture area around it. Keeping in mind that unless it's enclosed you are going to lose some birds, sooner or later to hawks or owls. So, coop in the middle with pop doors on each side and the pasture fence radiating out in four sections. To help illustrate what I mean, draw a big square. Draw opposing diagonal lines inside the square. Where they intersect, draw a circle -- that's where you put the coop. The diagonal lines and the square are where you install your fencing. That allows you 4 separate pastures for a stationery coop. This is ideal for layers. You can tractor your hens but that comes with a whole lot of other considerations and expenses.
Ideally, the fence should be chain link with hot wires held away from the fence and up a couple inches to keep animals from burrowing under. Another wire should be near the top to keep animals from climbing the chain link. This is the ideal situation. I personally use poultry netting with a wide impedance energizer (don't waste your money on a low impedance energizer as it's not strong enough to deter predators on dry grass) so that when a predator touches the fence they think twice before trying anything further. Some people keep Livestock Guardian Dogs (LGD's) to help protect their flock and it works very well for them. My DH is seriously opposed to the idea and some have tried them and had difficulties with the dog wandering or even chasing and killing the birds they were supposed to protect.
If you are planning to raise birds for meat, then check out Joel Salatin's YouTube vids and his book for building low cost, movable pens to keep your birds on fresh pasture as they grow out. You still have to supplemental feed them with a high protein ration so that they will bulk up and they aren't shy eaters. If you don't, you'll have naked skinny minnies as they attempt to get a high enough protein level by eating each others feathers. Not pretty.
Storey's Guide to Raising Chickens by Gail Damerow is a good book to start out with. It will walk you through a lot of info. What you learn there is generally good but it won't teach you to ferment your feed, or use other natural methods to best advantage in keeping costs down.
Here are my best solutions to common issues. I have a recipe for a balm I make myself to soothe wounds, clear up gleet (should it happen during those times when it's too cold to clean out the coop and too cold for the birds to want to go outside) and for spreading on feet (use vet wrap to keep it on the skin) and legs for bumblefoot and scaley leg mites. Scaley leg mites can be prevented by dipping their legs and feet in vegetable oil once a month. Wood ash is a good mite preventer for birds to dust bathe in and very cheap but if you run low like I did - grab the sevin and powder down the coop before you find yourself with a mite infestation. Worm every six months with Wazine first, wait 2 weeks, use Ivermectin pour on to get rid of remaining worms and any lice/mites. Caveat, Ivermectin isn't labeled for poultry. That means you shouldn't eat any birds you use the stuff on unless you want to be a scientific guinea pig. That said, it's used on cattle and approved for cattle, so you decide. Many people use it because it works and works fast. You can powder your birds individually with Sevin instead, if you have a serious infestation, although that is no longer labeled for use in poultry either. So, if you are going to use the most conservative methods, use a permethyrine sp? based garden dust found right next to the Sevin. It can dry your birds skin severely so use it carefully. It is labeled for poultry use. Powder up the birds and the coop. In case of a real nightmare case, clean out the old bedding and spray the walls and surfaces with Poultry Protector. I keep Vet Rx on hand for sniffles and have used it for a clogged tear duct. It is very soothing for the eye and clears it nicely. Vetericyn has a good eye ointment and also a good wound spray. I use a TB of ACV in my waterers in the summer to prevent algae and slime build up. I use Sweet PDZ in my coop and it keeps things nice and dry, even with ducks sharing the coop, and it is also a good substitute for grit. When it's been unusually damp and birds get the sniffles, chances are it may be a fungal thing. I've used a bit of Oxine in a vaporizer several nights in a row and cleared that mess up nicely. Bedding is important to provide warmth in cold temps and to absorb waste from the chickens. Many people use straw or wood shavings. Trish44 uses dried cattails she gets free from a friend's property. Prevention is a big deal for chickens. If you prevent problems with good management, you keep your costs down, but it's not cheap to raise birds. Chicken feed isn't chicken feed anymore.
I'm a FF (fermented feed) user. Danz makes a ton more than I but I've always used ACV with the mother in it. Create more "mothered" ACV by adding mothered to the cheaper, gallon sized, unmothered and letting it grow for a few days. It's similar to how the kefir grows in milk. I couldn't keep up with my kefir so I switched over to ACV. I really love kefir but it was a tough sell for my family of 10. I don't win all my battles but I win my fair share.
I've just been to visit one of the top breeders in the country and he doesn't use a whole fifteen acres for his birds and he raises thousands of birds: chickens and turkeys. He has these gigantic metal buildings with gas heaters and gas brooders in the brooder house with pop doors to the outside so that they can forage on green grass. However, I've been there twice and in the windy and chilly (not even cold) days I was there, they much preferred to stay indoors.
When you get everything set up the way you choose, then it's time to get serious about the type of birds you want to raise. Something I didn't know and I don't think many newbies know is that hatchery birds are not always pure bred. You may think you are getting a Plymouth Barred Rock but when you compare them to the real thing, a bird that is bred to the Standard of Perfection, and the line goes back many decades with a consistency of type, these birds are so much more robust and vigorous, not to mention substantial, that you just can't believe it. I don't have any problem with you making your own choice -- like I'm not going to mount a protest against you if you choose hatchery birds. That's all I had last year and I loved them.
The problem with the Speckled Sussex was that they were very difficult to keep alive as chicks and even once they reached maturity and finally seemed more stable, I had birds just die. It's so disappointing when you put all kinds of hard work, money and love into raising your birds, only to learn that they aren't strong constitutionally. Many people who have hatchery Speckled Sussex birds note that they just have a tendency to die suddenly and for no apparent reason. It wasn't just me. Birds that are built correctly are just better equipped to perform for their purpose. Some bird's purpose is only to be loved and that's fine too but they fail even in that department if they die prematurely in spite of good care. I am supposed to get some Speckled Sussex chicks in April from one of the best breeders in the Northwest. I wish I had done that last year. I love the Speckleds personalities and am thrilled to be getting some nice birds. I wish I had done that last year.
We are fortunate enough to have one of the best breeder's in the U.S. in Lindsborg, KS. I think it would be great if we supported his efforts to preserve Heritage breeds. He doesn't have all the breeds but he has some absolutely stunning Plymouth Barred Rocks, New Hampshires, White Jersey Giants, Delawares among others. He also raises some amazing turkeys.
So that's my best advice from one newbie to another!
Chickens are an investment. Set up a budget first, buy chickens last. Then buy the very best birds you can buy. I didn't because I didn't want to "practice" on great quality birds. Big mistake. Great quality birds are generally healthier constitutionally and you are helping to preserve the real thing that is quickly disappearing. Stay true to your budget in dollars and numbers of birds.
Pasturing on 15 acres comes with a whole set of considerations. Predation being the main one. Also, what purpose are you raising the birds for? If for eggs, how will you know when and where they are laying? How much can you afford in feed because you will still need to supplement their diet. Laying hens also need a calcium supplement such as oyster shell or ground up egg shells. How large a shelter can you provide? Chickens can't live out in the elements 24/7 because they will either freeze to death in winter or die of heat stroke in summer. They need plenty of ventilation in their shelter so any ammonia build up, during those times the coop gets a bit too "fresh", doesn't damage their lunges. How will you provide fresh, clean water? How will you keep them mite free over such a large area? Mites can take a bird out really quickly. Worms can cause birds to become "unthrifty" by not laying up to their potential or not growing up to their potential. Parasites, when they kill, kill much slower than an infestation of mites but in the meantime, you've got less of a producer.
So, It's beautiful to have 15 acres but you will not want to use all that land for chicken pasture or you will simply end up with a lot of well fed coyotes, foxes, neighbor dogs, hawks and owls. Not to mention the occasional bobcat. Sad but true.
If you want the birds for laying hens, it will be best for you to set up a coop with a rotating pasture area around it. Keeping in mind that unless it's enclosed you are going to lose some birds, sooner or later to hawks or owls. So, coop in the middle with pop doors on each side and the pasture fence radiating out in four sections. To help illustrate what I mean, draw a big square. Draw opposing diagonal lines inside the square. Where they intersect, draw a circle -- that's where you put the coop. The diagonal lines and the square are where you install your fencing. That allows you 4 separate pastures for a stationery coop. This is ideal for layers. You can tractor your hens but that comes with a whole lot of other considerations and expenses.
Ideally, the fence should be chain link with hot wires held away from the fence and up a couple inches to keep animals from burrowing under. Another wire should be near the top to keep animals from climbing the chain link. This is the ideal situation. I personally use poultry netting with a wide impedance energizer (don't waste your money on a low impedance energizer as it's not strong enough to deter predators on dry grass) so that when a predator touches the fence they think twice before trying anything further. Some people keep Livestock Guardian Dogs (LGD's) to help protect their flock and it works very well for them. My DH is seriously opposed to the idea and some have tried them and had difficulties with the dog wandering or even chasing and killing the birds they were supposed to protect.
If you are planning to raise birds for meat, then check out Joel Salatin's YouTube vids and his book for building low cost, movable pens to keep your birds on fresh pasture as they grow out. You still have to supplemental feed them with a high protein ration so that they will bulk up and they aren't shy eaters. If you don't, you'll have naked skinny minnies as they attempt to get a high enough protein level by eating each others feathers. Not pretty.
Storey's Guide to Raising Chickens by Gail Damerow is a good book to start out with. It will walk you through a lot of info. What you learn there is generally good but it won't teach you to ferment your feed, or use other natural methods to best advantage in keeping costs down.
Here are my best solutions to common issues. I have a recipe for a balm I make myself to soothe wounds, clear up gleet (should it happen during those times when it's too cold to clean out the coop and too cold for the birds to want to go outside) and for spreading on feet (use vet wrap to keep it on the skin) and legs for bumblefoot and scaley leg mites. Scaley leg mites can be prevented by dipping their legs and feet in vegetable oil once a month. Wood ash is a good mite preventer for birds to dust bathe in and very cheap but if you run low like I did - grab the sevin and powder down the coop before you find yourself with a mite infestation. Worm every six months with Wazine first, wait 2 weeks, use Ivermectin pour on to get rid of remaining worms and any lice/mites. Caveat, Ivermectin isn't labeled for poultry. That means you shouldn't eat any birds you use the stuff on unless you want to be a scientific guinea pig. That said, it's used on cattle and approved for cattle, so you decide. Many people use it because it works and works fast. You can powder your birds individually with Sevin instead, if you have a serious infestation, although that is no longer labeled for use in poultry either. So, if you are going to use the most conservative methods, use a permethyrine sp? based garden dust found right next to the Sevin. It can dry your birds skin severely so use it carefully. It is labeled for poultry use. Powder up the birds and the coop. In case of a real nightmare case, clean out the old bedding and spray the walls and surfaces with Poultry Protector. I keep Vet Rx on hand for sniffles and have used it for a clogged tear duct. It is very soothing for the eye and clears it nicely. Vetericyn has a good eye ointment and also a good wound spray. I use a TB of ACV in my waterers in the summer to prevent algae and slime build up. I use Sweet PDZ in my coop and it keeps things nice and dry, even with ducks sharing the coop, and it is also a good substitute for grit. When it's been unusually damp and birds get the sniffles, chances are it may be a fungal thing. I've used a bit of Oxine in a vaporizer several nights in a row and cleared that mess up nicely. Bedding is important to provide warmth in cold temps and to absorb waste from the chickens. Many people use straw or wood shavings. Trish44 uses dried cattails she gets free from a friend's property. Prevention is a big deal for chickens. If you prevent problems with good management, you keep your costs down, but it's not cheap to raise birds. Chicken feed isn't chicken feed anymore.
I'm a FF (fermented feed) user. Danz makes a ton more than I but I've always used ACV with the mother in it. Create more "mothered" ACV by adding mothered to the cheaper, gallon sized, unmothered and letting it grow for a few days. It's similar to how the kefir grows in milk. I couldn't keep up with my kefir so I switched over to ACV. I really love kefir but it was a tough sell for my family of 10. I don't win all my battles but I win my fair share.
I've just been to visit one of the top breeders in the country and he doesn't use a whole fifteen acres for his birds and he raises thousands of birds: chickens and turkeys. He has these gigantic metal buildings with gas heaters and gas brooders in the brooder house with pop doors to the outside so that they can forage on green grass. However, I've been there twice and in the windy and chilly (not even cold) days I was there, they much preferred to stay indoors.
When you get everything set up the way you choose, then it's time to get serious about the type of birds you want to raise. Something I didn't know and I don't think many newbies know is that hatchery birds are not always pure bred. You may think you are getting a Plymouth Barred Rock but when you compare them to the real thing, a bird that is bred to the Standard of Perfection, and the line goes back many decades with a consistency of type, these birds are so much more robust and vigorous, not to mention substantial, that you just can't believe it. I don't have any problem with you making your own choice -- like I'm not going to mount a protest against you if you choose hatchery birds. That's all I had last year and I loved them.
The problem with the Speckled Sussex was that they were very difficult to keep alive as chicks and even once they reached maturity and finally seemed more stable, I had birds just die. It's so disappointing when you put all kinds of hard work, money and love into raising your birds, only to learn that they aren't strong constitutionally. Many people who have hatchery Speckled Sussex birds note that they just have a tendency to die suddenly and for no apparent reason. It wasn't just me. Birds that are built correctly are just better equipped to perform for their purpose. Some bird's purpose is only to be loved and that's fine too but they fail even in that department if they die prematurely in spite of good care. I am supposed to get some Speckled Sussex chicks in April from one of the best breeders in the Northwest. I wish I had done that last year. I love the Speckleds personalities and am thrilled to be getting some nice birds. I wish I had done that last year.
We are fortunate enough to have one of the best breeder's in the U.S. in Lindsborg, KS. I think it would be great if we supported his efforts to preserve Heritage breeds. He doesn't have all the breeds but he has some absolutely stunning Plymouth Barred Rocks, New Hampshires, White Jersey Giants, Delawares among others. He also raises some amazing turkeys.
So that's my best advice from one newbie to another!
Well said Deerfield. It would have taken me an hour to write all that! I am on this whole campaign myself to raise top notch rare and heritage birds but I still have some hatchery quality birds for laying and such. I have to maintain some common stock for layers just for the locals who don't see the value in a heritage breed.
I guess it all depends on your long term goals.
As far as LGDs go it is all a matter of breeding. I definitely can't recommend a cross bred dog for chickens. When you get different traits in there is when you have problems. A good LGD is invaluable. But you can't pen one up in a tiny pen with a group of chickens and expect it not to get bored. They are bred to protect a larger area.
So here is my recipe for brining turkey for anyone who wants to try it. It works great.
Ingredients
On another note I am very excited. I have geese pipped and making little goosey sounds in the hatcher. Wish me luck!!
I guess it all depends on your long term goals.
As far as LGDs go it is all a matter of breeding. I definitely can't recommend a cross bred dog for chickens. When you get different traits in there is when you have problems. A good LGD is invaluable. But you can't pen one up in a tiny pen with a group of chickens and expect it not to get bored. They are bred to protect a larger area.
So here is my recipe for brining turkey for anyone who wants to try it. It works great.
Ingredients
- water and ice (see instructions)
- 1 cup kosher salt
- 2 cups sugar
- 1 cup apple cider vinegar
- 2 tablespoons sage
- 2 tablespoons thyme
- 2 tablespoons rosemary
- 1 tablespoon pepper
- 4 cups ice
- Remove giblets and neck from the cavity if it is a store purchased turkey . Do not buy a kosher turkey or self basting turkey because these will make your turkey too salty.
- Bring 4 cups of water to a simmering boil. Add salt and sugar. Stir until the sugar has completely dissolved. Turn off the heat. Stir in 8 cups ice water, apple cider vinegar, sage, thyme, rosemary, pepper, and ice. The brine is ready to be used.
- Rinse the outside and inside of a thawed turkey. Empty and clean out the bottom drawer of your refrigerator. Put a large size oven roaster bag in the drawer. Put the turkey in the bag and fill the bag with the brine water. Allow the turkey to marinate for 12 to 24 hours. I turn mine over about half way through so all the meat gets a good soaking. Rinse turkey inside and out before preparing to cook as you normally would. You can if you prefer use the same bag that you brined in for roasting. I bake my turkeys at 325 degrees about 1/2 hour per pound. I don't really like using the oven bags for roasting but they work fine if that is what you are used to.
- Note: The sugar and the vinegar do not flavor the turkey. These are there to break down the fibers so the turkey is moister and more tender. I think unless you desire the flavor of the spices you can easily use half this amount of sage, thyme, and rosemary.
On another note I am very excited. I have geese pipped and making little goosey sounds in the hatcher. Wish me luck!!
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