Consolidated Kansas

[pikeman94]

Danz and Deerfield - I like the idea of heritage breeds. So in the next few years as I go to replace my layers, I will keep you two in mind for pullets to replace my flock.

Also, I have been talking everyone up that has chicks to sell to my friends in the area that are thinking about getting into raising chickens. So if by some odd chance you get contacted by some city folk in the KC area, it was probably me.

 

[Hawkeye95]

The gel comes in a spray bottle just like the liquid. In fact they look too much alike if you want one or the other. Bluestem keeps both in stock. The stuff works well to help heal "post surgery" bumblefoot, too. We used it for a while on my little EE. I had cut on her several times, and I just couldn't do it again. Her feet and legs were swollen and hot, and I was out of ideas. I started spraying her feet at night after she got up on the roost, and the bumblefoot got under control. I'm not sure it is really gone, but there are no scabs and no swelling or excessive heat. That was a year and a half ago.

It also works on psoriasis on my DD who got into the mist from it when she was spraying Lily's feet. Go figure.

oh wow-- I'll remember that for bumble!! So you just sprayed it on while the foot was uncovered? That is really interesting. I have also found that using Penicillin injections works great too!

7 weeks always seems to be the magic time for me. It becomes real easy though because the roos will have nice well defined red combs when the pullets aren't even red yet. Of course I am sure there are breeds that defy this rule of thumb or in this case comb.

I hope you are an expert, because as soon as I get some time, I'm going to post mug shots of my barred rock chicks! I need ideas on what gender they are!

Deerfield - All three are doing well. I got an egg from Ginger (RiR) that took the worst of the attack the other day so I think she is back on her game. On another note, that SSX (Safron) is still broody! I am talking to my neighbor to see if she has any fertile eggs. My plan is to stuff a couple under Safron and see what happens. I will let you know how that works out.

S glad she is okay! That is amazing... I have still been nervous for you thinking that she might keel over. Glad that she's laying! Whew!

I bought 10 rainbow chicks a week or so ago and they really haven't proven to be hardy birds at all. Of the 10, 6 have just died - all my other chicks have done well that came with this group, so I am thinking it is the breed. These are not rainbow layers, these are a breed called Rainbow.

With all the rave reviews of the California Whites, I went and picked up some this morning from Orshlens. I'm done with chick buying! Other than the broilers coming in about 3 weeks, I'm not getting any more chicks this year! UNLESS, some that I hatch are just too cute to sell

Very tired of the cold - I need to get my broiler tractor done.. It won't take long, but it is just too cold to even enjoy doing projects right now. My poor animals are just getting the basic care right now and I'm missing hanging out with them.

Soooo sorry they are dying! Wow! I have never heard of Rainbow birds. I hope your CA Whites do much better! Never heard of them either! But I'm not keeping track of all the crosses people are making-- there are sooo many of them! I hate this weather too! I hope you get your tractor done. How are you thinking of making it? I love the hoop coop idea. I went and saw HeChicken's in person and her's is amazing! LOVE it!! It looks super cheap to build, too!

There isn't the chicken poop smell you would normally notice. I forgot how bad it was until I picked up my birds from Frank last week.
I had nigerians and they are precious. All goats jump in my experience. It's the little ones that have springs!
I let most of my chickens free range which I would call the same as pasturing. You really need a LGD though to do it safely or you'll loose them to predators.

Wow-- the FF makes a big difference! Okay, I am going to have to try this on my silkies this summer. Especially since I am showing, maybe they could beat out everyone in shine! LOL I would love your recipe!

Chickens are an investment. Set up a budget first, buy chickens last. Then buy the very best birds you can buy. I didn't because I didn't want to "practice" on great quality birds. Big mistake. Great quality birds are generally healthier constitutionally and you are helping to preserve the real thing that is quickly disappearing. Stay true to your budget in dollars and numbers of birds.

So, It's beautiful to have 15 acres but you will not want to use all that land for chicken pasture or you will simply end up with a lot of well fed coyotes, foxes, neighbor dogs, hawks and owls. Not to mention the occasional bobcat. Sad but true.
Coyotes love chicken and turkey. Sigh. It's not safe to free-range either. You get stray dogs that come onto your property and kill your birds, too. Fox will hunt during the day and pick off your flock quickly as well. Pikeman has an insane story about a hawk that was trying to eat his chickens, and HeChicken has a crazy fox story about her chickens being eaten in the middle of the day and I have a sad story about coyote getting my favorite turkey as well as Deerfield here having hair raising coyote run-ins.

If you want the birds for laying hens, it will be best for you to set up a coop with a rotating pasture area around it. Keeping in mind that unless it's enclosed you are going to lose some birds, sooner or later to hawks or owls. So, coop in the middle with pop doors on each side and the pasture fence radiating out in four sections. To help illustrate what I mean, draw a big square. Draw opposing diagonal lines inside the square. Where they intersect, draw a circle -- that's where you put the coop. The diagonal lines and the square are where you install your fencing. That allows you 4 separate pastures for a stationery coop. This is ideal for layers. You can tractor your hens but that comes with a whole lot of other considerations and expenses.
Yeah, I love this idea. If you search the Coop picture section, a lot of people have done this! Or just "google" it here on BYC for ideas on how to build yours.


Ideally, the fence should be chain link with hot wires held away from the fence and up a couple inches to keep animals from burrowing under. Another wire should be near the top to keep animals from climbing the chain link. This is the ideal situation. I personally use poultry netting with a wide impedance energizer (don't waste your money on a low impedance energizer as it's not strong enough to deter predators on dry grass) so that when a predator touches the fence they think twice before trying anything further. Some people keep Livestock Guardian Dogs (LGD's) to help protect their flock and it works very well for them. My DH is seriously opposed to the idea and some have tried them and had difficulties with the dog wandering or even chasing and killing the birds they were supposed to protect.
Or--- I like the hardware cloth. Of course, I'm using chain link fencing for my layers, but the hardware cloth is nice too (and on my silkie pen)-- but they are both on the expensive side. The electric fence is cheap. I have always used the super strong chargers that is rated for double my distance! LOL That will give you a heart attack for sure, but you won't have anything going in or out that fence. Good for my horses too since I have a gelding that will push through a hot wire that isn't highly charged. He will take the pain to get to greener grass. The same with predators-- if they are hungry enough and determined enough, a light zap isn't going to deter them.



If you prevent problems with good management, you keep your costs down, but it's not cheap to raise birds. Chicken feed isn't chicken feed anymore.
Very true!!


I've just been to visit one of the top breeders in the country and he doesn't use a whole fifteen acres for his birds and he raises thousands of birds: chickens and turkeys. He has these gigantic metal buildings with gas heaters and gas brooders in the brooder house with pop doors to the outside so that they can forage on green grass. However, I've been there twice and in the windy and chilly (not even cold) days I was there, they much preferred to stay indoors.
I thought that was interesting too! All of his birds are fenced in. He has about 50-100 birds in a pen and they have a fenced in yard-- maybe about half an acre for each pen?? But they are all lined up.


When you get everything set up the way you choose, then it's time to get serious about the type of birds you want to raise. Something I didn't know and I don't think many newbies know is that hatchery birds are not always pure bred. You may think you are getting a Plymouth Barred Rock but when you compare them to the real thing, a bird that is bred to the Standard of Perfection, and the line goes back many decades with a consistency of type, these birds are so much more robust and vigorous, not to mention substantial, that you just can't believe it. I don't have any problem with you making your own choice -- like I'm not going to mount a protest against you if you choose hatchery birds. That's all I had last year and I loved them.
Very true-- I thought that my hatchery barred rocks were great examples of the true breed, because they are black and white and barred... But that is where the similarity ends! LOL They are supposed to have yellow legs and mine have a sickly grey color, and mine are small, and on and on. Also something I thought was really interesting is that the hatchery barred rocks have been bred to Leghorns to make them better egg layers-- which is why mine have the tall single comb that falls over! "Real" barred rocks should have a smaller single comb and it should absolutely not fall over.


The problem with the Speckled Sussex was that they were very difficult to keep alive as chicks and even once they reached maturity and finally seemed more stable, I had birds just die. It's so disappointing when you put all kinds of hard work, money and love into raising your birds, only to learn that they aren't strong constitutionally. Many people who have hatchery Speckled Sussex birds note that they just have a tendency to die suddenly and for no apparent reason. It wasn't just me. Birds that are built correctly are just better equipped to perform for their purpose. Some bird's purpose is only to be loved and that's fine too but they fail even in that department if they die prematurely in spite of good care. I am supposed to get some Speckled Sussex chicks in April from one of the best breeders in the Northwest. I wish I had done that last year. I love the Speckleds personalities and am thrilled to be getting some nice birds. I wish I had done that last year.
Oh, oh! That's me! I have worthless birds that their only purpose is to be loved! hahaha

My silkies would be very indignant if I told them that, though.


We are fortunate enough to have one of the best breeder's in the U.S. in Lindsborg, KS. I think it would be great if we supported his efforts to preserve Heritage breeds. He doesn't have all the breeds but he has some absolutely stunning Plymouth Barred Rocks, New Hampshires, White Jersey Giants, Delawares among others. He also raises some amazing turkeys.

So that's my best advice from one newbie to another!

Another concern-- (and this goes for nearly every breed you buy at the farm store) the Rhode Island Reds are not RIR's, they are actually "Production Reds" if you bought them at the hatchery/farm store. I know this because I have been to many shows where poor 4-H kids have been duped into buying these birds and labeled them a RIR and the judge disqualified them because they look nothing like a RIR! But they are "RED", right?? Not good enough, they need to have the stance, correct color eyes and legs, comb, and on and on. Last summer there was one little girl in tears because her RIR was disqualified. The parents were angry with the judge and I was present for that conversation, and the judge had to explain to them that the hatchery birds are not true breeds-- they have been mixed with other birds beyond recognition to become better layers. So you can show your hatchery birds-- but they should be shown in the meat or egg group-- never as a "representation of the breed" for judging.


WHEN are we getting warmer weather?!?! I'm going NUTS here! I need to clean out my brooder again. Those barred rocks are giants and they make monster poop! Ugh. I can't wait until it's nice enough they can go outside!

 

[HEChicken]

Sarajoy, your post didn't multi but you had asked about automatic doors. Unfortunately, while I was researching I didn't take notes so I only have my memory to go on now but here goes. There are two types of door - the kind that opens up - guillotine style - and the type that opens out. To my knowledge all manufacturers make the guillotine type except for one, known as the Pullet Shut Door. When I originally envisioned my coop, I imagined a guillotine style. I looked at reviews and specs on every door I could find and in the end put the door that Fleming Outdoors sells, in my shopping basket. Before checking out on any big ticket item, I walk away from the computer to think about it some more. Some of the doors I researched had lousy reviews - the motor wasn't up to the task, or it was difficult to install. The Fleming Outdoors model seemed to largely get good reviews. It had some poor ones in the beginning but the issue the people had with it had been resolved by Fleming and the later reviews were all very good. If you are set on a guillotine style, I believe the Fleming one to be the best value for money. The thing that stopped me getting it in the end was this: with any guillotine style, there is the possibility that a predator with nimble fingers - like a raccoon - will be able to get under the door and "force" it up. There are locking mechanisms but those seemed to be somewhat inconsistent, and in any case, were often able to be outwitted by a raccoon.

Then I started reading about the Pullet Shut door, which opens outwards. I had reservations about this style as I was concerned about our strong Kansas winds battering it. I even wrote to the guys who developed it to ask about this and they agreed that with the strong winds we have here, that could be an issue, and suggested that some of their customers put up a wind barrier to protect the door. That sounded like more work than I needed, so I waffled some more. In the end, the overwhelmingly positive reviews of that door won me over and I ordered it. I'm not sorry.

It comes with several options. If you have power to your coop you can order a model that plugs directly in. If you don't, you can order a solar panel with it ($15) that will power the door for you. Although I have power to my coop, I got the solar panel as I figured that was one less thing plugged into my power outlet and - in the event of a power outage - my door will still shut. Another optional extra is the light sensor. Mounted correctly this will tell the door to open at first light and close at dusk. Without it, you have to program the door to open and close, which is not hard, but will need to be reprogrammed throughout the year to keep up with sunrise/sunset times. I opted for the light sensor also.

Okay, so installation. The hardest part was cutting a hole in the wall of the coop. I.e. deciding where to put it and making the first cut, and worrying that you've measured wrong. With the hole cut, you put the door up, and mark the four corners. Then drill the holes, and all it takes if 4 bolts and the door is installed. The solar panel needs to be installed on the roof, south facing if possible. The light sensor also needs to be on a south facing wall, and as high up as you can get it. My only issue with all of this was that they sent only a 10' cord with the light sensor and that barely made it from the door to my south wall. As cheap as wiring is, I thought it was chintzy of them not to send more after what I paid. But - I found a way to make it reach and it has worked flawlessly.

Even with the light sensor, it is easy to open and close the door manually whenever I want to. It comes with a large magnet, and you place the magnet over a red dot on the motor, and within 2 seconds, it opens or closes. Easy peasy. The same magnet is used to program it if you don't get the light sensor.

So - once it was installed, I used it that way for a few days. Then I saw a bird perched on the open door and as it jumped down, the door rocked on its hinges. It was easy to see it wasn't going to last long. So - I made a "chunnel" for it (chicken tunnel). A friend had given me an internal door that was going to be discarded during a renovation. I cut it in half, found some scrap OSB and cut it to fit the top, then found a couple of other scraps to screw into the bottom for triangulation and voila! It ain't pretty but it works. It triples to protect the door from birds perching on it and from the wind and from rain/snow blowing in through the open door.

For predators, the door fits so tightly into its frame that it is said to be "impossible" to be forced open.

Here is a picture of it installed with its ugly but functional chunnel. Oh, after uploading I see that you can see the red dot on the motor where you place the magnet to open/close:

The gel comes in a spray bottle just like the liquid. In fact they look too much alike if you want one or the other.

Not to disagree because the gel may well come in a spray bottle but the bottle I have is not a spray bottle - it is a much smaller bottle than the Vetericyn liquid, and has a nozzle on the end. If you squeeze the bottle, you force the gel out through the nozzle.

Is anyone here pasturing? As I mentioned, I will soon have 15+ acres dedicated chicken Pasture. I would love to visit someone's place who does this! How many chickens can I pasture on that much land?

I do a form of pasturing, I guess. As chicken danz and Deerfield pointed out, predation can be a real issue. If you go to my "My Coop" page you will find the boring details of my coop build but if you skip to the bottom you can see the area that I have fenced off for the chickens. This was my compromise when we moved here (from the city last year) because in the city they had free-range of my whole backyard and I didn't want to confine them here. DD and DH were tired of the chicken poop right outside the backdoor so the compromise was that I would fence them off an area large enough that they wouldn't eat all the vegetation in it, but at the same time confine them from pooping on the back doorstep. In the past few months, we've relaxed that a bit and now let them out to free-range our whole property (10 acres) from about mid-afternoon on. They have continued to lay their eggs in the nest boxes inside the coop since a) they are creatures of habit and b) they are confined to that area for 2/3 of the day. And, by not feeding them outside the backdoor, they don't congregate there so I haven't had any issues with poop build up there. Therefore, everyone is happy

However - if you look in my signature line you will also find reference to a fox attack. That happened only 3 weeks after we moved here to this set up and was sort of devastating after all the planning that had gone into it, not to mention the guilt. Some of the hens lost in that attack I had had more than 3 years in the city and felt so guilty that the move to the country ended their life so quickly. That said, I do believe that fox was something of an anomaly as he attacked in broad daylight, contrary to everything I've read about them being largely night-time predators. And, since he was eliminated from the equation I haven't lost another bird to a predator.

I would not say that a LGD is essential to pasturing since I do not have one per se. I do have two medium build "mutts" (pic below) about 40lb each who are outdoor dogs. They are both completely poultry safe so after the fox attack, we moved their dogloo into the chicken yard and they sleep there at night. My hope was that having their scent around the chicken yard, even when they are not physically present, would aid in deterring predators. I don't know for sure it works that way but as I said, we haven't lost a bird to a predator since we changed to this arrangement. During the day the birds are "on their own". They have a lot of cover from aerial predators, but I rarely see them around here anyway. I did have a Golden Eagle fly over one time and my rooster sounded the alarm. The hens dashed for cover and after one or two lazy circles, the eagle gave up and flew away and I've never seen it since. I also had a skunk visit one night a couple of weeks ago. It sprayed my chicken yard gate (and the dogs who much have been on the other side of the gate barking at it). Ewww. But, no harm done.



Deerfield gave you a ton of great information and I would not take it lightly as she has learned much of it the hard way. I also subscribe to a blog written by a lady who pooh-poohs the whole idea of "free range", stating that in her opinion, confinement is better because it concentrates the fertilizer into an area where it can then be used on her farm. She finds the idea of birds wandering around freely to contribute to their being "unthrifty". Personally I like my birds to have access to greenery since it makes their eggs more nutritious (and I get more than enough poop from the coop they sleep in at night) so I continue to free-range but it is good to hear other opinions too. In the end, we all have to do what we feel is best for our own situation. What works for Danz or Deerfield or me, may not work for your situation.

Good luck and I hope I've helped a little....

 

[cubbysan]

Sharol,

When I saw the picture of that bridge, it reminded me of this wonderful Steamboat Arabia Museum in Kansas City. Being new to this area, I am not sure if this a commonly known story or not, but it is one that amazed me. It has all kinds of artifacts that were preserved from a sunken steamboat that was found in a Kansas City cornfield. A few business men got together and decided to go on a treasure hunt for these steamboats. I guess over the years, these rivers have changed their courses and have moved miles from where they used to be. It is an amazing story and they seem to think there are many more boats hidden in other fields. The artifacts from this steamboat are worth millions, if not priceless.

 

[sharol]

That is interesting. The bottle I have is 16 oz. It was about $34 or so at Bluestem, and it says "wound and Infection Care HydroGel Spray." so maybe there are two different products?

With my EE with the bumblefoot back a year and a half ago, I was using the regular liquid wound and infection care stuff. I probably would not have tried it that way (spraying feet on the roost just before the lights went out) but I had left my poor DH to deal with the problem when i went out to my daughters for a week (in Reno). He didn't want to soak her feet every night in the Tricide Neo I had been using for a week, so he tried the Vetericyn. It was amazing how well it worked. By the time I was back, she was walking normally, and I used it off an on all last summer. As of right now, there is no sign of infection in either of her feet.

I read the labels before buying the gel version, and they aren't exactly the same, so that might make a difference, too. It is amazing what we have to test for ourselves.

I did find the source of the bumblefoot (I think). I had a bowl of oyster shell on their shelf (I keep a feeder suspended up there for them to keep the shavings out of the feeder), and they were jumping down to the shelf onto the shards of crumbled shell. I moved the oyster shell outside and put crumbled egg shell on the shelf, and there haven't been any new infections. Butch has a recurring problem that may or may not be bumblefoot.

"Not to disagree because the gel may well come in a spray bottle but the bottle I have is not a spray bottle - it is a much smaller bottle than the Vetericyn liquid, and has a nozzle on the end. If you squeeze the bottle, you force the gel out through the nozzle."

 

[HEChicken]

That is interesting. The bottle I have is 16 oz. It was about $34 or so at Bluestem, and it says "wound and Infection Care HydroGel Spray." so maybe there are two different products?

Oh okay, yeah, what you have is different then. Mine is an ophthalmic gel specifically.

 

[Trish44]

I can see the benefits of having the good heritage birds for breeding definitely & in fact that is what I have been working on myself. I'm also excited to get the new Speckled Sussex chicks, I can't wait! I don't know if I would go so far as to say you should just get them for your laying flock. If you're not concerned about how much money you spend on birds & aren't getting very many, then go for it, but I have to agree to disagree with you Karen about getting them for general purpose laying flock. I get new chicks every year for my laying flock just so I have staggered ages & some new layers coming up. Otherwise you have a gap of several months when you have very few hens producing because the older ones either went into molt & aren't laying or they're cutting back & the new younger ones haven't started yet. Replacing birds that often with more expensive heritage birds doesn't make sense to me for just eggs. So I guess what I'm saying is that you have to decide what your real goals are if they're just for a few hens for eggs for your family & maybe a few extra to sell or give away or if you're going to try to breed & sell birds. I have had chickens in the past just for personaly egg use & sold a few extras here & there. Now I have gotten into the breeding & hatching chicks so of course I want better stock for that purpose. But I still like the hatchery birds just for general purpose laying flock.

It's so cold here today, the mud is frozen solid on the ground. The sun is trying to come out so I hope it succeeds & warms it up out there. I went out to let the little goats out of their shelter & I'm cutting the little one's bottles back to once a day now & she really wasn't happy with me. She was bumping my legs & jumping up on me looking for that morning bottle. When she saw she wasn't getting one though she went right for the feed bowl & started on the feed I brought them. I do enjoy bottle feeding her, but she will be 8 weeks old this week & I think she is old enough to wean her soon. I thought maybe she would do better getting a night bottle, that way it would hold her over till morning with a full tummy. I have been trying to get the dogs used to having the goats here & the goats used to the dogs too. I haven't let them go in the pen with them yet because I didn't want them to spook them & I'm not sure how they will do yet. I will start soon letting them go in with me when I'm in there. I was pleased that they did go investigate one day when I was out feeding the birds & Penny was bleating loudly, they ran over to see what was wrong with her. At least I know if something did go after them that they would go to their rescue.

My birds are doing pretty well now I think. I didn't hear much when I went out to let them out this morning & the one little lavender Orp hen is doing lots better. I really was thinking I might lose her because she just wasn't doing well. I hate losing birds, especially my beautiful roosters that were my flock protectors, but I guess you just have to look at it as part of having chickens & the strongest survive type of attitude. They do build up some immunity from having an illness just like we do, so next time maybe they won't get sick so easily. I can't wait for warmer weather so they don't have to go through such extremes of weather at least for a little while. I sure hope we don't have another scorcher of a summer like we did last year.

 

[chicken danz]

I am still sick with this sinus infection. DH told me to go to the doctor today cause I was sneezing and coughing last night and driving him nuts. Believe me I was more miserable than he was!!!
At least the sun is shining here right now. Doesn't help a lot with all the snow out there but at least if you only look up it looks good.
I hope some of you newer people don't think we are chicken snobs. There is nothing wrong with a group of chicks regardless of breeding, for eggs or companions.
My attitudes changed because I was loosing money breeding just normal hatchery stock. But then I got into admiring and appreciating the awesome quality of the true pure bred birds.
That being said, many of the rare and highly sought after birds are conceived by selective breeding to get colors or other traits. There is nothing wrong with that as long as it is done with the breeding ending with particular standards in mind. And of course as long as someone is still trying to maintain birds of the original type.
My passion for Breda fowl is one of these examples. It is said that they have been used to make many of the modern breeds of chicken. So much so, that the original bird became extinct in the U.S. back in the 19th century.
I feel privileged to be able to own an ancient breed. By the same token the Swedish flower hens and many of the other new imports were bred by crossing various breeds either naturally or via a breeding program. And the Aloha program is another example.
I've found that the old barnyard mix birds turn out to be the hardiest and strongest birds so there are good sides to both.
My point is to make sure you all understand almost all of us have some of these less than perfect birds and we love them as much as the expensive birds.

 

[Trish44]

sarajoy, I do have the Fleming Outdoors automatic door, I have had it for over a year, probably going on two years & I just love it. I like that it closes up & down instead of out. It was very easy to install & operate. They have done away with the issues they had earlier on with this door, so it works great. My concern with the ones opening & closing out was the strong wind & birds sitting on the door. I guess HEChicken hasn't had those issues, but that was my main concern. She also has a type of shelter over her door too, which I did have a cover over mine before, but it got knocked off awhile back. I will replace it when it gets warmer & I can work out there. I did end up getting a better timer for my door, the one that came with it worked for awhile, but I just found a better one I like. I really could have gone with solar, but didn't want to mess with trying to store a battery. Fortunately my main coop is right beside our detached garage so I just run an extension cord over to it. I have cords running everywhere around here anyway.

Danz, I'm sorry you're not feeling well. You should go to the Dr. & get something so you will get better. That is just miserable with the sinus infection, I have had those before. I'm one of those people with allergies year round too, I have had them all my life.

 

[HEChicken]

Danz, I love your method for brining. I don't have a turkey but I just pulled a chicken out of the freezer who is almost the size of a MW and when he is defrosted I plan on trying that. What else did you have with your meal after it was cooked? I'm thinking maybe mashed potatoes and some kind of vegetable?

Oh Trish, I DID have problems with birds sitting on the door and that was the main reason I built the chunnel. I was also concerened about the winds and the chunnel fixed both problems at once.