Consolidated Kansas

Yep, I agree with Danz on the molt. I don't give mine anything extra as it is a normal process they should be able to complete as long as their nutrition is adequate. Flock Raiser already has a higher protein percentage than layer feed so they should do fine on it through molt.

Regarding that meatloaf....I have to say it would not have gone to the animals in this household. I grew up in another country and have found that American attitudes to food are vastly different than the way I was raised. Years ago when my daughter was crawling, she would of course pick up everything and put it in her mouth. I try to maintain a generally clean house but I'm not fanatical about it so inevitably some of the stuff that ended up in her mouth had to have contained bacteria. She did not have so much as a cold for the first two years of her life (and only got one then because I had to put her in day care for a few weeks). Meanwhile, a friend of mine had a daughter the same age. Every night she would pick up all of her daughter's toys and soak them in bleach for an hour, then dry them and set them back out to be played with next day. Her daughter was non-stop sick. I never saw her that she didn't have a stream of disgusting looking stuff coming out of her nose. My theory developed that we need exposure to the elements in order to be healthy.

Where I grew up, leftovers typically stay out overnight to cool before being put away the next day. Awhile back I worked in a small group of people - myself, an American and a French woman. One morning the American was lamenting that she had had to throw out an entire large meal. I asked why and she said it was because they had served their meal, then watched TV for an hour, forgetting about the food sitting out on the counter. By the time it had set out for an hour, she felt it was too dangerous and threw it all away. The French woman and I sat there staring while she related this, our jaws dropping in disbelief. We both immediately told her there was no reason to have thrown away the meal. In France apparently they never put leftovers away. They sit out in the pot on the stove and they continue to eat from the pot until it is empty - sometimes days later. I related that we also don't hurry to put leftovers away and never do it before the next day, as it is too energy inefficient to put hot foods in the fridge and make it work overtime to cool them.

Here's the thing: In France, apparently food poisoning is non-existent. I also have never had a case of food poisoning. She and I discussed and developed a theory that by exposing ourselves to whatever finds its way into the foods, we teach our bodies that they are not dangerous, whereas, just like with my friend who bleached her baby's toys nightly, by attempting to eliminate all bacteria, the body overreacts when it does encounter something.

Now, I'm not suggesting you leave food out for 5 days and then eat it if you've never done it before - guaranteed you will make yourself ill. But - teach your body in small increments not to worry about stuff and you'll be better off in the long run.

So - this is my long way of saying that not only would the animals not have gotten the meatloaf and potatoes, in our household, it would have been completely "normal" for them to have cooled on the stove overnight and eaten by the people next day. In fact, since that conversation with my French co-worker, I no longer even put leftovers up the next day. Now I too leave them on the stove until they are finished - often 2-3 days after the meal was prepared.

Actually this is a real problem for us in another sense. Everyone I know skimps on their animal feed bill by feeding "food scraps" to the animals. But in our household food scraps are relatively rare. The things we don't eat - coffee grounds, citrus peels, onion skins - are also the things the animals aren't interested in eating
lau.gif
 
I've been raised with that mentality of always putting things away immediately after a meal but that doesn't happen here. I often think about holiday meals that sit for hours while people continue to "graze." No one has ever died from that around here. My DH however is the very worst about remembering to put things in the refrigerator. He will often put them in there the next morning and I cringe. I have had food poisoning. Not from things setting out, but from eating tainted food, i.e. meat that wasn't properly maintained BEFORE cooking at a restaurant, etc. I just don't care to take a chance if food, particularly meats out and cool to room temperature.
However I was raised with bacon grease kept in a tin on the back of the stove and used over and over. We never worried about it being safe to use even though my mother was adamant about getting things put in the fridge.
And we NEVER refrigerate mustard or catsup. I look at the catsup containers that say refrigerate after opening and smile. I have never had a bottle of catsup in the fridge unless a guest put it there. Never had any go bad either. My mother used to buy dill pickles in a gallon jar and we never kept those chilled either. The trick to things like that with a vinegar and salt base is to be sure never to use a dirty fork or spoon in them. By themselves they are perfectly safe.
Also properly cured and or smoked meats have no reason to be kept cold. I still find it strange that people will take a fully cured and smoked ham and chill it. We used to buy heavenly hams which have gotten insanely expensive now. But they arrive in the mail in an uncooled package. But what is the first thing people do? They put them in the fridge.
I used to make corned beef from scratch. Now that one will make you question your sanity. You put raw brisket in a a crock and add various ingredients and it sets there for three weeks in open air un chilled. Once a day you scrape off mold from the top of the liquid. Rinse it well before you cook it and then eat it. The first time I made corned beef at home I must admit I was pretty nervous about actually eating it.
I guess I'm kind of in the middle, thinking on food safety.
But had meatloaf been left out overnight, the animals would certainly have been eating it.
 
I had a lovely surprise in the Orpington/Campine coop today. They aren't laying much -- everyone is molting, but there was a tiny green egg in one of the nests (and the gate had been shut, so I know it came from someone in that run. The only bird that isn't Campine or Orpington is one little black (as it turns out) hen that hatched out of a green egg last winter when the Campines hatched. I had decided that it was a "he" since it had a triple weird comb, but apparently it is a hen since it laid that egg. Mom was an EE and dad was the Breda Fowl rooster in that coop. Horray. I have another green egg layer.

I'm not on much these days between the classes I'm teaching and other priorities. I'm never getting caught up with the discussions. Sigh.

These shorter days really cut into egg production. I'm lucky to get 5 or 6 eggs a day from these freeloaders. On the other hand when they all start laying again, I'll be up to my ears in eggs probably. Feast or famine. My DH wants the pullet eggs to take to work. They fit into his egg poacher better than the big eggs. He says the yolks are proportionately bigger, too. Of course the yard looks like a pillow exploded, but this too shall pass.

A friend wanted the shavings from the coop clean, so she helped clean the smaller coop out. I'm waiting until spring to clean the Orpington coop. It isn't particularly nasty, so I'm spot cleaning and getting them fresh shavings in the nest boxes this weekend and calling it good for the winter. Fall cleaning seems silly to me for my modified deep litter method. It negates the value of the heat produced by the shavings as they break down, and you also have all those feathers from molting right after cleaning. Next March or so, I'll clean it out and see if it works out to stay clean longer.

I loved the meatloaf discussion. I figure if something gets left out (and DH NEVER puts anything in the fridge), I'll just heat it adequately to kill off the bugs if it smells ok. Hope I don't regret that at some point, I just hate the waste. I too grew up with a pot of grease on the back of the stove, and nobody ever got sick from that.

Back to grading. It is worth it, though, my teaching salary paid for my dental implant and our trip to Orlando a few weeks ago.
 
I do give my birds some extra BOSS during molt just for a boost, but not every day. As far as the leftover food discussion, most of us here in this country were raised that things have to be refrigerated as soon as we're done eating. I have always followed that as that is how I was brought up. Of course on holidays food was left out a bit longer at times due to people eating it over a longer period, but was always put away before too long. I actually have gotten food poisoning, not from eating at home but from eating out so that food was probably contaminated instead of it being another issue. I have not heard of anyone leaving food out for days, honestly that is a foreign concept to me. I did notice some things in Paris while we were there that didn't seem to even get a reaction from the French but turned off the Americans visiting. Our hotel was right on a market area where there were shops all along where people came each day to do their shopping such as cheese shops, meat, cooked food, a bakery, etc. At the bakery they had cases with the pastries & bread that were just open in the back. They had bees swarming in those cases like I have never seen before. They especially went for the pastries with icing on them & just ate the icing off as you watched. They wouldn't eat the chocolate at all but would especially go for any vanilla flavored ones. The workers just served things around the bees. We went there more than once & I saw Americans walk in, look & walk back out shaking their heads. We did buy things there but others did not. The French however didn't seem to think anything of it.
 
I do give my birds some extra BOSS during molt just for a boost, but not every day. As far as the leftover food discussion, most of us here in this country were raised that things have to be refrigerated as soon as we're done eating. I have always followed that as that is how I was brought up. Of course on holidays food was left out a bit longer at times due to people eating it over a longer period, but was always put away before too long. I actually have gotten food poisoning, not from eating at home but from eating out so that food was probably contaminated instead of it being another issue. I have not heard of anyone leaving food out for days, honestly that is a foreign concept to me. I did notice some things in Paris while we were there that didn't seem to even get a reaction from the French but turned off the Americans visiting. Our hotel was right on a market area where there were shops all along where people came each day to do their shopping such as cheese shops, meat, cooked food, a bakery, etc. At the bakery they had cases with the pastries & bread that were just open in the back. They had bees swarming in those cases like I have never seen before. They especially went for the pastries with icing on them & just ate the icing off as you watched. They wouldn't eat the chocolate at all but would especially go for any vanilla flavored ones. The workers just served things around the bees. We went there more than once & I saw Americans walk in, look & walk back out shaking their heads. We did buy things there but others did not. The French however didn't seem to think anything of it.

I saw the thing with Bees in Mexico. They would gather at sweet food and also where they were mixing drinks in outside establishments. It didn't bother me at all. Bees are very clean, unlike flies.
 
@chicken danz Yeah I agree with you I would rather see bees on the food than flies, that would just creep me out. I just picked things they didn't like, they avoided chocolate which I love anyway, & other flavors like caramel or coffee. They also weren't bothering the bread.

I didn't mention that I got to see some Silver Lakenvelder chickens in Holland at a museum place we went to in Haarlem, a smaller town an hour from Amsterdam. They had moved all of these historic buildings to this place, it was just huge & they had all kinds of things there including farm animals. The Lakenvelders were beautiful. When I get a chance to go through my photos, almost 2000 of them I'll see if I can find a pic of them.
 
I've been raised with that mentality of always putting things away immediately after a meal .... I have had food poisoning. Not from things setting out, but from eating tainted food, i.e. meat that wasn't properly maintained BEFORE cooking at a restaurant, etc. I just don't care to take a chance if food, particularly meats out and cool to room temperature.
...
But had meatloaf been left out overnight, the animals would certainly have been eating it.


...here in this country were raised that things have to be refrigerated as soon as we're done eating. I have always followed that as that is how I was brought up. ... I actually have gotten food poisoning, not from eating at home but from eating out so that food was probably contaminated instead of it being another issue. I have not heard of anyone leaving food out for days, honestly that is a foreign concept to me.

Hmmmm....I guess I feel like the main point I was making was lost
smile.png
I had mentioned the friend who bleached all her kids' toys and the kid was constantly sick as an analogy to how food is handled here in this country. By always putting it away immediately and not risking eating it if it has been left out for a little while, the body has no opportunity to encounter bacteria and learn to deal with it. That is why, though you haven't had food poisoning from your own food at home, you have had it other places. Had you "inoculated" your body at home so it would know how to deal with that stuff, you would be far less likely to get food poisoning when eating elsewhere.

The other point I was trying to make was that although in America it has been drummed in that food must be put away immediately, the fact that it is done differently in other countries and those people suffer far less from food poisoning, perhaps indicates that not only is what you were taught growing up unnecessary, but perhaps downright wrong.

I've traveled a lot and I kind of take the attitude that if a certain practice doesn't kill the locals, there is no reason for me not to try it - even if it is a foreign concept or different than the way I was taught to do it growing up. I know people shudder that the Chinese eat dogs and cats and the French eat frog's legs. In Australia, a huge delicacy for the native people is to find a huge grub called a Witchety Grub, dig it out of the soil and pop it in one's mouth, alive, dirt and all. Although having a moving grub in my mouth doesn't appeal, I also wouldn't hesitate if I was hungry, simply from the sense that the locals have been doing it for centuries and it hasn't killed them. Bees in a bakery wouldn't bother me a bit - even if I had seen them sitting on the very piece of food I was about to put in my mouth. Bees are very clean and only go from sweet thing to sweet thing to gather nectar with which to make honey. That is very different than flies that rub their legs in the filthiest stuff they can find and, when they land on the next thing, some of that stuff drops off their legs.

Thanks to all the people who provided hints on where to get heated water bowls on sale. That Menards offer sounds great. The main thing I have to consider is whether I need any more or not. I have several functioning bowls and buckets but as soon as I decide I don't need more, I'm sure one of them will quit working and then I'll wish I'd gone and got one during the sales after all.

We have the cows, goats and sheep up front grazing today. Although the grass has almost completely stopped growing, there is enough, plus leaves that have fallen off the trees, to give them something a little different to eat than what they find in the pasture. They consider it a treat so although its a hassle for us, we let them every now and then.
 
Chicken Danz, would you remind me what nipple water buckets you use? I thought I had saved the info, but can't find it now. Do you heat yours? Thanks.
 
Chicken Danz, would you remind me what nipple water buckets you use? I thought I had saved the info, but can't find it now. Do you heat yours? Thanks.
I think it was @lizzyGSR who mentioned using horizontal nipples. I have some nipples that can go in the bottom of buckets but they have to be mounted perfectly straight or they will leak. I also have used these little poultry cup drinkers that you mount in the side of a 5 gallon bucket. I did like those. http://www.cornerstone-farm.com/equipment/poultry-production-equipment/300-cup-drinker/
You can drop a bird bath heater or stock tank heater in the bucket to keep it from freezing. I use heated dog water bowls outside. My building has automatic waterers in it but you have to keep them above freezing.
I finally got my hog waterer put together today and working. It's an old antique one I rebuilt. I figured it's cool enough now he doesn't need water to lay in.
 

New posts New threads Active threads

Back
Top Bottom