Consolidated Kansas

[RoosterLew]

I'm really enjoying everyone's LGD stories. I think it would be a good idea for me to get a couple before we have any major losses to our livestock. So far it looks like pretty much everyone has Great Pyrs.

Do a lot of research!
Owning a LGD is a lot of commitment.
We got one that was chicken friendly. And the seller was not misleading us in any way. We visited for a good hour, watch chickens all around her. They rotated her in and out of a yard of chickens every other day with an older dog that trained her.
When we got her home, the first thing she did was chase our chickens. A few months later she killed several of our chickens. It was my mistake, she seemed to be doing well with our Chickens. So I left her unsupervised for a bit. Since then I have learned it takes at least 18 months to train a LGD, 2 years is better.

Once they are trained though, I'd think it is worth the effort. We do plan on getting a second as our flock grows.

 

[chicken danz]

Ahhhh, speaking of dogs coming into maturity. One of my GPs is 2 yrs old now and I have not seen her left the property since winter (she went to the field north of us and dragged a deer carcass home as her Christmas dinner

). I just thought she was just getting used to being "at home". Come to think of it, maybe it is a fade of her being more mature now.

Hechicken, that sure is a lovely veggie garden you got there. I thought about putting cardboards down and like you said, the light weight ones just get picked up by the wind too easily.

Danz, don't know how you did it but I only took 2loads of laundry down from the lines and I was drenched! Sorry about your pheasants. I hope you don't lose more.

Only in the 90s tomorrow. Fall can't come soon enough.

I didn't mention, when I put the cardboard down I also drenched it down with water. The water held it in place. and it kind of melded with the soil. You want it to get good and wet so it has some weight of it's own.

Quote: Good to see you back Rooster.
I didn't mention one thing when it comes to LGD. NEVER and I mean NEVER put a young LGD in a closed pen with birds. Dogs are dogs and they will get bored if they are confined. GPs are bred to protect property ....not a small area. They need to be able to patrol and work the area. Also avoid buying a dog that is half GP and half something else. You are breeding in trouble. Each breed of dog has it's own special way to work and mixing "drives" can spell disaster. I do think those mixed with Ackbash do quite well. I don't think Anatolian mixes do as well with chickens because they are a very aggressive type guardian dog. They are more suited to goats and sheep.
Also if the breeding is right I don't think a LGD really needs trained. The very most I ever did with mine was tell one of them NO! when it was playing with a chick once. If you want them to protect chickens you need to put them outside the pen or let them free range together. A puppy has to mature before it does well. And of course they do better in pairs, however one will do just fine if it is of the proper breeding. Lots of people disagree on this, but like with any breed it's all about breeding the right traits in the dog.

I've got to go to town today and help move things from my parents home. We close in a couple of days and have to get it done.

 

[adventerousone]

A friend of mine needs advice from gardening friends!!! "Its sooooo hot here, where my brussel sprouts should be growing balls.... they are growing new "stem shoots" .... any way to stop it?? or get the others to ball up as they come in???"

 

[chicken danz]

It's really too hot to grow brussel sprouts as they are a cool weather crop. I can't stand them but I can suggest a couple things. Be sure they have plenty of water. Spritz them with water or use a mister on them to help keep them cool. Add 2 tsp of Borax ( 20 mule team Borax in example) to 3 quarts of water to and sprinkle it around them on the ground. This will help them form heads. But you really don't want the heads to form right now anyway as they would be bitter. You want them to form in cool weather so you can harvest them after a frost. But they will bear for a while with the proper care.
Horticulture was my thing before chickens. I worked just as hard in my gardens as I do with my birds. Now you wouldn't have a clue. I have weeds and no organization and don't spend time even maintaining the basics. I have also had to start growing things that I can either keep from the birds or that the birds won't eat. I guess it's all part of the mix.

 

[adventerousone]

It's really too hot to grow brussel sprouts as they are a cool weather crop. I can't stand them but I can suggest a couple things. Be sure they have plenty of water. Spritz them with water or use a mister on them to help keep them cool. Add 2 tsp of Borax ( 20 mule team Borax in example) to 3 quarts of water to and sprinkle it around them on the ground. This will help them form heads. But you really don't want the heads to form right now anyway as they would be bitter. You want them to form in cool weather so you can harvest them after a frost. But they will bear for a while with the proper care.
Horticulture was my thing before chickens. I worked just as hard in my gardens as I do with my birds. Now you wouldn't have a clue. I have weeds and no organization and don't spend time even maintaining the basics. I have also had to start growing things that I can either keep from the birds or that the birds won't eat. I guess it's all part of the mix.

Thank you so much I will pass it on to her ) I am new to all of this but enjoying it )

 

[cherwill]

Cherwill, I am growing about a dozen different heirloom tomatoes this year and Cherokee Purple is one of them. They were my first to ripen and probably the most flavorful tomato I've ever tasted. I don't care for the big size and irregular shapes but its worth it for the flavor. Since then we've had two other varieties ripen as well. They are both smaller and consistently round and quite good - but not as full-on flavor as the Cherokee Purple.

Two years ago, we got our first Cherokee Purple. DH went on and on about it. We only got about 3 tomatoes because we had it in the garden of a guy whose yard we were taking care of. He had people to come in and help him, and he would have them turn a sprinkler on in the garden for about an hour every day. Needless to say, most of what we planted there was way too overwatered to be productive.

We couldn't find the Cherokee Purple last year, and it was way to late to start from seeds, so he was pretty excited that we found them this year.

Cherwill, Hawaiian Pineapple is an heirloom tomato. It tasted great! I have also harvested 2 Cherokee Purples this morning. Can't wait to taste them. We also have a bunch of yellow cherry tomatoes which DH loves. I think I'll try to plant some green beans for fall. Maybe some lettuce as well.

I'll have to look for seeds next year. I don't eat raw tomatoes, but DH loves them. He's not a fan of cherry tomatoes, but a guy at the nursery convinced him to try Sun Gold. He really likes them. Not as much as Cherokee Purples, but he says they're the second most tasty tomatoes he's ever tasted.

I haven't grown corn for several years. The last time I grew it, I devoted quite a lot of space to it at a time when I didn't have a lot of space for a garden. I tended it and watered it and watched it grow and finally each plant grew two ears of corn. Around the time they were mature enough to harvest, I went to the store and saw corn for 10/$1. 10c apiece. I couldn't believe it! No way can I grow it cheaper than that. Not to mention that once I've harvested those two ears, the plant is done and though I can pull it out, its almost too late to plant anything in its place. Since then I've restricted myself primarily to things that will continue to produce.

This year I am growing the many different tomatoes, several different peppers, 2 types of tomatillo, potatoes, green beans, 2 types of onions, 3 varieties of zucchini, 2 types of collards, 3 types of kale, 3 types of chard, 3 types of mustard, rutabagas, basil and bok choy. The bok choy is a single plant, though you can harvest it and it will regrow from the stalk for a second harvest. However all of mine died in the heat so I will be replanting them for a fall harvest. I lost all of my zukes to squash bugs after getting a few items per plant. But I replanted those and they are at the 6-leaf stage and looking good. I've heard that squash bugs are a bigger problem earlier in the season so I'm hoping they'll leave this second planting alone. I also had to pull out two varieties of mustard that had bolted and I've replanted them as well. They do better in cooler weather so I'm hoping to have timed it so they'll be maturing in the fall when it cools down.







The pics are from several different angles. What looks like bare patches is where I pulled stuff out and have replanted so the new stuff has not come up yet in the pics, though it is starting to now. You can't really tell in the pics but it is divided into 4' wide beds with 2' wide walking paths between each bed. This allows us to weed the bed from either side without having to walk on them much. Where you see flowers is marigolds and zinnias I planted as companion plants to encourage the pollinators to visit. The outside perimeter is heavy duty cardboard we laid down to keep grass from growing into the garden from outside of it. It is the second year with the cardboard so its looking a little ratty now and we're discussing what to do next year in its place. One fence of the garden is against the fence we share with our neighbor. We then fenced around the rest of it with t-posts and chicken wire to keep the free-ranging birds out of it. At each end, instead of chicken wire, we used a livestock panel that is only held in by zip-ties. This allows us to cut the zip ties and remove the livestock panel when it is time to get the tiller in, and then it only takes a moment to put the panels back with new zip ties. It works great!

Danz, that ceremony sounds great - glad you could go.

Your garden is gorgeous!

I haven't taken any pictures of our plots at the community garden this year. We added a plot, so we have three 25x25 plots, and I plant a few things here and there at home. We take grass clippings, leaves, straw (after it's spent some time in the chicken yard), and shavings from the coop out to the garden throughout the year. Nearly every time we're there, we spend a little time hoeing weeds off. I just shave the tops off. The key, for those who are newer to gardening, is not to let any weed go to seed. Each year, your plot will get easier to care for. We also don't water with a sprinkler, and water only where there are vegetables. Watering the dirt = watering weeds!

I hope everyone's having a nice weekend!

 

[HEChicken]

I agree with Danz re the Brussels Sprouts. It sounds like they are bolting and once they start to bolt, you really can't do anything to stop them. I had mustard greens and one type of kale that bolted so I pulled out the plants and replanted seeds. Although it is still warm, by the time they germinate and start to grow and get to the point they are mature enough to eat, I'm hoping it will be fall and cool enough that they will just produce edible leaves instead of trying to bolt.

Cherwill, my hat is off to you - that is a huge amount of garden space. Ours is 50' long by 24' wide but the cardboard makes the usable area about 40x16 and I've found even keeping up on the weeds with that amount of space has been a lot of hard work. With all the rain we had this year, the weeds wanted to take off and we had to spend many, many hours out there keeping them under control.

I grew my Cherokee Purples from seed this year - along with all my other tomatoes. The only one I planted from a seedling is called "Mr. Stripey" and it is an heirloom that we saw at Dillons on Mother's Day. DH bought it for me as a Mother's Day gift. I should add that although i started from seed, I did it indoors so it was seedlings I was planting outdoors after last frost. Do you save seeds from your tomatoes? I still have lots of seeds left from this year's planting and since I store them in the fridge, I think they should be fine to use again next year. But I do also plan to save some seeds from my own fruits this year. It would take a lot of organization but I read a blog where the lady saves the seeds from every single thing she cuts into. Then, after they've eaten it, she only dries and saves the seeds from the best-tasting fruits. In other words, if she cuts into 6 of the same variety of tomatoes, she saves seeds from each of them but discards those from the 5 that weren't quite as tasty as the 6th. I can't imagine how you set them aside and remember which seeds came from which fruit!!! Her opinion is that not all fruits are created equal even coming off the same plant. I can see where that would be true but I don't think my taste buds are refined enough to pick up subtle differences like that!

 

[Trish44]

I'm really enjoying everyone's LGD stories. I think it would be a good idea for me to get a couple before we have any major losses to our livestock. So far it looks like pretty much everyone has Great Pyrs.

Just keep in mind that you do have to get through the normal puppy stage with GPs just like any other dog. They make mistakes & have to be taught boundaries & rules. Once you get through the real puppy stage though they're great & ready to do their job. Mine started really getting more serious about it around 8-9 months & that's when they have the size to go up against bigger predators like coyotes. They really are puppies though until 18 months of age, so yes it is a commitment to get these dogs, but once you get them working they're so worth it.

Do a lot of research!
Owning a LGD is a lot of commitment.
We got one that was chicken friendly. And the seller was not misleading us in any way. We visited for a good hour, watch chickens all around her. They rotated her in and out of a yard of chickens every other day with an older dog that trained her.
When we got her home, the first thing she did was chase our chickens. A few months later she killed several of our chickens. It was my mistake, she seemed to be doing well with our Chickens. So I left her unsupervised for a bit. Since then I have learned it takes at least 18 months to train a LGD, 2 years is better.

Once they are trained though, I'd think it is worth the effort. We do plan on getting a second as our flock grows.

There really isn't training per se as far as the instinct these dogs have to go after predators or protect their stock, owners, & property. The training is more what the rules are as far as leaving the birds alone & what the property boundaries are. I have found that as long as the dogs have a job & are given something to watch over they don't roam. Mine might go next door once in awhile or out in the road down the hill from us, which is a dead end loop so only residents use that road. It borders our property on that side so they see it as the end of their "territory". I have been asked if my dogs stay here & I have to say they're here 99% of the time at least because I see them. During the day most of the time they're up by the house or under the trees sleeping because they work all night long. But they aren't oblivious even then. If someone comes here they're right up checking it out & I always know before someone even gets to the house because they bark, they hear them way before I do. It's always better to have at least two GPs because it was explained to me that if you only have one they never really get to rest because they're always on alert & eventually it will affect their health. With two one can really rest & the other one can be on alert. I see that with my two, one will crash out after a hard night's work & the other will still be watching things. They take turns taking naps through the day & then both are on duty at night. My two girls are both food aggressive, it's a trait of the GPs. I just have to feed them separately from each other & especially Lily will growl & snap at anything that gets near her food bowl. Jasmine actually will share her food with the cats & kittens, but not Lily. It's just something you learn to deal with & not a big issue in the big scheme of things for all of the work they do.

I'm so looking forward to some cooler weather to get some things done outside. Yesterday was just miserable out there. It's cloudy here today, but still hot. I noticed there is some rain out in the western part of the state, but I think it's going to go mostly north of us.

HEChicken, your garden looks nice. Maybe when I finally get the goats & sheep confined to their field I can actually build some new raised beds next year & have a little garden. I can't handle a big one any more with my arthritis, but I would like to at least have some mixed lettuces & things for early crops & tomatoes at the least. Have you thought of using landscape fabric around the perimeter? I have used that in my flower beds & a big roll of it isn't that expensive. You can fasten it down with those big garden staples at intervals. The water still gets through it but the weeds can't grow. I have also used bark mulch from the recycling center around the outside to keep the grass & weeds out & one year used cheap tarps underneath it, it worked pretty well.

 

[HEChicken]

Have you thought of using landscape fabric around the perimeter? I have used that in my flower beds & a big roll of it isn't that expensive. You can fasten it down with those big garden staples at intervals. The water still gets through it but the weeds can't grow. I have also used bark mulch from the recycling center around the outside to keep the grass & weeds out & one year used cheap tarps underneath it, it worked pretty well.

I did consider that but haven't had a lot of success with it in the past as far as lasting for long. What we are considering will be expensive but very long-term so it might be worth it in the end, to not have to redo it every other year or so. We're considering using stall mats. Each one can be cut in half and laid butted up against each other. We were thinking to put down either black plastic or landscape fabric under them to prevent weeds growing up through the seams between mats but the mats being there long-term will help protect whatever we use under it so it should last years too. The mats will stay in place permanently as the tiller can't get that close to the fence anyway, so we'll just till between the mats and leave them there. Those stall mats are rubber so they can stand up to sun exposure as well as rain, snow etc, so I think they are a good option. They are really heavy and difficult to maneuver but if we can get them on sale and then just make a day of it getting them in place, it will be a one-time thing and then hopefully we'll never have to worry about it again. They'll make an awesome foot path around the garden area too. It won't be happening any time soon as DH is too busy at work now so we still have time to think of the "cons" but right now that's the plan.

 

[RoosterLew]

Those with Pyr's..how are they when in heat/
Ours just had her first heat and it was like a fighting pit around here for a few days with the strays showing up!! And she did not run them off!!

Trish the boundary training and rules is what I was referring to. If we let ours roam, she WILL roam!! That seems to get better every month as I work with her.
When we free ranged the birds, she seemed to get bothered when they were out of their "area" and that took awhile to correct! We thought we'd never teach her to quit "chasing" the chickens...turned out she was just "putting them back where they belong". The chickens eat her food all the time, lol...she just lays there and watches them eat it.

Hechicken...the stall mas idea should be good....but that will be expensive! Quite the dedication to gardening!