Consolidated Kansas

[zigzag45]

Hmmmm, lots to comment on.

I enjoyed seeing the comments on egg eaters/breakers. I had come to a similar conclusion. I thought one of my girls was eating eggs so I put an egg with died interior in each nesting box. Next day, broken egg and a brahma with dye on her chest and feet. Nothing around the beak. I did catch one of the buff's eating a broken egg, and the shell didn't seem to soft. So, I think I did have an egg eater but it wasn't super often. I also realized at that point that my layers were on grower feed. They had oyster shell available, but everyone is on layer now that the younger birds are old enough.

I think I was the one that asked about roll-out boxes. @dwink2 - Do yours roll into the coop or out from it? I was all set to order some to replace the bottoms of mine and realized that if they rolled out, that was an opening for predators. If they roll in, now I've got to reach way into the coop. So, I think I'm stuck with the top access. I do need to add a second layer of nesting boxes under my current ones so I can't have a top opening door. Somehow the back will need to hinge.


@chicken danz - I'd wondered how @KsKingBee and @OkieQueenBee were doing. Since I've not been on much I didn't know if they'd been posting.

@Trish44 - I watched that video just last night. I thought it was good, but as a newbie to chicken butchering, his tips of "Now I just my right hand to hook..." when you're talking about getting the guys out wasn't too helpful. There was another video by a gal up in WA. She wears an apron and kills the bird while holding it upside down between her legs. The video was good, till the end of the second part. That's where she gathers the developing eggs off the table, that she'd previously removed from the dispatched bird, comments on how much she liked egg yolks, and starts eating them. Also, since I'm joining this late... which nesting boxes did you say you bought?

@HEChicken - You're right, the drill based plucker wasn't too hot. It did pretty well on one bird, but only fair on the other two. The downside was you have feathers and water going everywhere, including your clothes and face. That was a bit gross.

Well, I survived my first butcher session. It was quite the experience. My brother helped me. Frankly, the dispatching was the hardest, both actually doing it and knowing how to. I was glad it was me since I had raised these birds from chicks - felt like I had some responsibility. Would hate to think of some farmer throwing them to their dogs or something.

I think I wasted a ton of internal fat as I didn't know how to keep it. Also really struggled with getting the components up around the neck out. They seemed pretty stuck. I worked and worked at cleaning up the bird after the plucking and it seemed like there were always more little feather shafts and pin feathers. Even the blow-torch didn't seem to help much.

Now that I've done it once it makes me want to watch a pro and learn from them. Sometimes, to get the most from something, you have to have a bit of experience doing it. I wish all of you weren't so far away.

 

[HEChicken]

The Mother Earth News fair is next month in Topeka which isn't far from you. Last year they had a chicken processing demo with Joel Salatin. I don't know if he'll be back again this year but they will probably have the schedule up on the website fairly soon. If he is demo-ing again, I'd highly recommend attending on that day.

Congrats on getting the first butcher day behind you - the first one is the hardest. I know the lady you're talking about, who does it between her knees. I did quite a few that way but in the end I've found I like the cone the best. Each to their own, I think. I do like what she had to say about talking to them and keeping them calm and I do that, though I think it depends on how well the bird knows and trusts you, on how soothed they will be hearing your voice.

 

[TaraBellaBirds]

Good luck with your butchering. We raised CX last year & I swore I wouldn't have them again. I kept them in a pen to raise them & by the time they were ready for butcher the pen smelled so bad I had to till it under to use it again. I decided then I would just raise dual purpose birds if I need to raise any more for meat. I have heritage BRs & some others I can use for meat & I seems like I always have some extra roosters when I hatch.

This was exactly my experience with CX. I also separated them and put them in a smaller enclosed pen. They were lazy, and disgusting.

What I didn't realize was that it was my fault they were like that!

I took the advice of a lady here on BYC, who free ranges her CX with her flock. I am so glad I gave them another shot. This time around they had no leg issues, and while they are still eating machines, they are active. They LOVE to chase bugs and scratch and free range with the rest of the flock. They fit right in the pecking order and they really are just normal chickens, albeit very fat ones!!!!

Once I learn to caponize I will most likely not bother with ordering meat birds. I will just use the extra roos I hatch out! Capons make lovely big fat and tender table birds, can't wait!

 

[chicken danz]

Hmmmm, lots to comment on.

I enjoyed seeing the comments on egg eaters/breakers. I had come to a similar conclusion. I thought one of my girls was eating eggs so I put an egg with died interior in each nesting box. Next day, broken egg and a brahma with dye on her chest and feet. Nothing around the beak. I did catch one of the buff's eating a broken egg, and the shell didn't seem to soft. So, I think I did have an egg eater but it wasn't super often. I also realized at that point that my layers were on grower feed. They had oyster shell available, but everyone is on layer now that the younger birds are old enough.

I think I was the one that asked about roll-out boxes. @dwink2 - Do yours roll into the coop or out from it? I was all set to order some to replace the bottoms of mine and realized that if they rolled out, that was an opening for predators. If they roll in, now I've got to reach way into the coop. So, I think I'm stuck with the top access. I do need to add a second layer of nesting boxes under my current ones so I can't have a top opening door. Somehow the back will need to hinge.


@chicken danz - I'd wondered how @KsKingBee and @OkieQueenBee were doing. Since I've not been on much I didn't know if they'd been posting.

@Trish44 - I watched that video just last night. I thought it was good, but as a newbie to chicken butchering, his tips of "Now I just my right hand to hook..." when you're talking about getting the guys out wasn't too helpful. There was another video by a gal up in WA. She wears an apron and kills the bird while holding it upside down between her legs. The video was good, till the end of the second part. That's where she gathers the developing eggs off the table, that she'd previously removed from the dispatched bird, comments on how much she liked egg yolks, and starts eating them. Also, since I'm joining this late... which nesting boxes did you say you bought?

@HEChicken - You're right, the drill based plucker wasn't too hot. It did pretty well on one bird, but only fair on the other two. The downside was you have feathers and water going everywhere, including your clothes and face. That was a bit gross.

Well, I survived my first butcher session. It was quite the experience. My brother helped me. Frankly, the dispatching was the hardest, both actually doing it and knowing how to. I was glad it was me since I had raised these birds from chicks - felt like I had some responsibility. Would hate to think of some farmer throwing them to their dogs or something.

I think I wasted a ton of internal fat as I didn't know how to keep it. Also really struggled with getting the components up around the neck out. They seemed pretty stuck. I worked and worked at cleaning up the bird after the plucking and it seemed like there were always more little feather shafts and pin feathers. Even the blow-torch didn't seem to help much.

Now that I've done it once it makes me want to watch a pro and learn from them. Sometimes, to get the most from something, you have to have a bit of experience doing it. I wish all of you weren't so far away.

The nest boxes were from a group that had been in a egg facility that a guy rebuilt. They are just 10 unit metal nest boxes like you every where.
When I built my last little coop I put flashing on the roof where the nest box connects to the house and put the roofing over the nest box. I wanted to solve the problem other people had had with leaky nest box roofs. I put my door on the outside of the nest box and used a barrel hook to secure it. It has worked really well. And having the door swing down so it just makes a flat surface in front is great to lay eggs on while you gather them. I had never had external nest boxes before but I really do love this concept.
To get the inards all out I put my hand inside as close the the top (the breast bone) as I can and move as far back as I can. I just cup the contents a little with my fingers and gently pull. All of the inards usually come out in one attached group. Moving slowly and judging how it feels as you pull keeps from breaking anything open and everything comes out together.
Sharol and I used cones as well and I have to agree that is the way to go.
Your problem with the plucking is probably the water temperature. The perfect temperature is about 158 degrees and feathers come out really well. Older birds don't pluck as cleanly as younger ones either.
Sharol a regular stock pot will work for just chickens. But if you are buying one just for this purpose, I would recommend a 20-30 gallon pot though for maximum dipping. Look for one that is taller than it is wide. That was my problem when I ordered by big turkey pot....finding one that was taller. Aluminum is just fine for this and can save lots of dollars over stainless.

 

[Trish44]

ziggzag, the nest boxes some of us bought were the metal 10 hole nests with removable bottoms. I'm really liking mine & the hens took right to it first thing. They're not using all of the nests but they do kind of like spreading the eggs around. At least now they have enough to pick which ones they like the best. On the butchering, I find it hard with my arthritis in my hands to get some of the innards out as well, especially the lungs. I don't worry about it too much if I can get every little bit out, they will be cooked anyway & you don't eat the bones anyway so they are left inside.

Tarabellabirds, good luck with your butchering, I hope it goes well. I have heard of others free ranging CX but I just didn't have room in my coop for 25 more fat birds.

 

[sharol]

The nest boxes were from a group that had been in a egg facility that a guy rebuilt. They are just 10 unit metal nest boxes like you every where.
When I built my last little coop I put flashing on the roof where the nest box connects to the house and put the roofing over the nest box. I wanted to solve the problem other people had had with leaky nest box roofs. I put my door on the outside of the nest box and used a barrel hook to secure it. It has worked really well. And having the door swing down so it just makes a flat surface in front is great to lay eggs on while you gather them. I had never had external nest boxes before but I really do love this concept.
To get the inards all out I put my hand inside as close the the top (the breast bone) as I can and move as far back as I can. I just cup the contents a little with my fingers and gently pull. All of the inards usually come out in one attached group. Moving slowly and judging how it feels as you pull keeps from breaking anything open and everything comes out together.
Sharol and I used cones as well and I have to agree that is the way to go.
Your problem with the plucking is probably the water temperature. The perfect temperature is about 158 degrees and feathers come out really well. Older birds don't pluck as cleanly as younger ones either.
Sharol a regular stock pot will work for just chickens. But if you are buying one just for this purpose, I would recommend a 20-30 gallon pot though for maximum dipping. Look for one that is taller than it is wide. That was my problem when I ordered by big turkey pot....finding one that was taller. Aluminum is just fine for this and can save lots of dollars over stainless.

Any chance you mean 20-30 quart? gallon seems pretty large.

I was amazed at how easy the feathers come off, really. I was dreading it, and it wasn't that bad when we did it really fast right after the scald.

 

[HEChicken]

This was exactly my experience with CX. I also separated them and put them in a smaller enclosed pen. They were lazy, and disgusting.
What I didn't realize was that it was my fault they were like that!

I took the advice of a lady here on BYC, who free ranges her CX with her flock. I am so glad I gave them another shot. This time around they had no leg issues, and while they are still eating machines, they are active. They LOVE to chase bugs and scratch and free range with the rest of the flock. They fit right in the pecking order and they really are just normal chickens, albeit very fat ones!!!!

Once I learn to caponize I will most likely not bother with ordering meat birds. I will just use the extra roos I hatch out! Capons make lovely big fat and tender table birds, can't wait!

That was my experience as well with allowing CX to free-range with my other birds. However I still prefer to raise heritage birds if only from a more "natural" standpoint. CX are artificially created and unable to, for the most part breed at all, but if they manage that, they don't breed true because they are a cross. This is the same reason I would never raise a broad-breasted turkey. I prefer to do everything as much as possible "the way nature intended" which means choosing breeds that recreate naturally, yet still grow to be a good table bird, and then allowing them to free-range and eat their natural diet as much as possible rather than penning them. So far I've been really pleased with the heritage NH and BR's for this purpose.

Caponizing - now there's something I can't see myself ever doing. I haven't had any issues with crowing causing the meat to be less tender, and doing surgery like that on an un-anesthetized bird seems inhumane. It was bad enough doing bumble foot surgery on a bird without anesthesia, but that was necessary since the bird would have died a miserable death without the surgery.

Re: skinning vs. plucking. I was giving this a lot of thought today while I separated the meat from the bones of a duck I butchered yesterday. The main reason I hated plucking was the pot of water. I suppose if you are doing a large batch of them its not so bad but getting a large pot of water up to the correct temperature to do a small number of birds a) made it more time-consuming and b) used a lot of energy. We try to be as green as possible in everything we do, and using all that energy to get a pot of water up to 150 (and then keep it there which is a trick all in itself) seemed like a huge waste of resources. And, once the bird had been dunked, plucking was harder because the wet feathers cling to you and every time I'd try to get rid of a handful, I'd find I still had a large number of them stuck to my hands. On another thread someone recommended using gloves but I found the loss of sensation made plucking harder so that didn't work for me either. So that is the main reason I started skinning - it was faster and easier, by the time you factor in the time to heat the water and the clean up afterward.

But I would say that how you intend to use the meat also factors into which method you choose. If you like fried or roast chicken, then yes, you need the skin on for those. But if you are going to use most of the meat in casseroles, then skinning is going to render better meat.

Cooking in the crockpot keeps the meat extremely tender and moist - far more than any plucked bird I've ever had. You retain all the juices and the bird then cooks in those juices and comes out so moist it is actually dripping. And so tender it just falls off the bone.

Since we eat mostly casseroles, the skinning and crockpot method works much better for our purposes.

That said, I've butchered two ducks this week and plucked them both. But - I dry plucked, which I've decided I like far better than the dunking and wet plucking method I'd used in the past. Perhaps it is because they are either in molt or preparing to molt, but dry plucking, the feathers were coming out by the handful, leaving the skin clean and smooth with very little effort on my part. The difference is that when I wanted to drop a handful of feathers into the bag next to me, I was able to do it without them sticking to me. The ducks have wonderful downy feathers close to their skin so I decided to save the feathers and make a pillow for the animals for this winter, rather than have them go to waste.

The first duck was a 1 ½ year old female and I roasted her, after sprinkling her with salt, pepper and paprika. The meat was not as moist and tender as doing it in the crockpot, but it was edible and DH and I actually ate the entire bird in a single sitting, since I hadn't cooked anything to go along with her - no veggies, potatoes, rice etc. It felt terribly decadent to just sit there and eat half a duck! We're not likely to do it again but it was fun for something different. The duck I butchered yesterday was a 2 ½ year old male. I had to really work to get him into my very large crockpot but I finally managed it and I put him on the low setting for 10 hours. I have just got done separating the meat from the bones and it is SO moist and tender! Because his skin was on - the first time I've done a bird in the crockpot with skin on - the juices rendered contain a lot more fat than usual. I have just put the juices into the fridge to separate the juice from the fat and then I'll skim off the fat to use for cooking. That is something I lose when I skin and discard the feathered carcass. I wound up with several pounds of cooked meat which will now go in baggies in the freezer and all told that one duck will probably make around 6 meals for our family.

Only 19 ducks to go…..

 

[chicken danz]

LOL Sharol, yes I'm afraid that would be a really huge pot.

HEChicken I use a propane burner and it can run for hours with very little fuel. Once it is hot I turn it down substantially and just maintain the temp. Back in the 70's we just built a fire with scrap wood and did all our water heating over it. A fire pit or open barbecue could work the same way.
I always dry pluck my ducks and would never mess with the wet ones. The feathers come out very easily. If you wet them they are nearly impossible. I also use the parafin method. I dry pluck all the feathers then dip in hot parafin water, then a bucket of cold water. You simply just crack the parafin shell and pull all the down out. Piece of cake and is super fast.
I had a friend butcher ducks with me who used to be a butcher. He was so impressed he said he would never wet pluck a duck again.
I also forgot to validate that Sharol said you complete plucking before you start another bird. If you are by yourself that is absolutely correct. If you have an assembly line of people no need to wait. The feathers will "lock" in as the first effects of rigor mortis set in.
(Just to clarify so there is no argument: Full rigor takes hours, but the effects of the calcium not being depleted from the muscles begins at death. Just a little more of my old college biology classes kicking in here.) I think that was mentioned earlier from a video or a class or something and I am sure that is what the speaker was meaning even though technically it isn't considered rigor mortis at that point.
Okay that was my biology lecture of the day. I really do wish I had been in a financial position to complete college back when I was in my 20s. I really really wanted to be a veterinarian more than anything. Biology to me was like a huge puzzle that all the pieces fit together to make an amazing picture. I am still really drawn to learning and studying more about it all.
I totally agree with HEChicken on caponizing. It seems barbaric to me. I think my birds grow just as big and do quite well as roosters. I believe it is due a lot more as to the breeding of the actual bird than the caponizing of it. Meaties are bred to grow fast. They have weak hearts and even if they do free range....which mine always did, eventually those big over sized hearts give out. They aren't bred to live long.

 

[TaraBellaBirds]

Tarabellabirds, good luck with your butchering, I hope it goes well. I have heard of others free ranging CX but I just didn't have room in my coop for 25 more fat birds.

Thank you. I understand that!

I am simply lucky that the property we bought already had a chicken coop (connected to our garage by a series of 3 separate rooms) and could conceivably hold 100 birds. I hope it never gets to that point though

!

 

[adventerousone]

Been gone awhile I had surgery last Monday am I am recovering.. Luckily I have my mom staying with me to help with my hens and ducks... I am up to 4/10 laying eggs now ) Happy Camper ) My ducks however are getting bigger then my hubby wants.. so I guess how long should I give them before I butcher? and will the hens lay eggs without a drake?