Consolidated Kansas

That's so funny. A symbiotic relationship between a horse and a turkey. Hey if the horse doesn't mind what could it hurt?
Hawkeye do a test run with the turkey and the chicks. If they don't pick on each other it will be fine. Any picking means that isn't going to work yet.
In answer to the heat questions: Ivy is the one that had the cookie tin heater for her Seramas. I do the same for all my birds. I use a heat lamp in each of the buildings when the weather gets down to the 10's or lower. I use heated dog water bowls in most of my pens for water. As long as your birds can stay out of the north and west wind and have food and water they should be fine. Avoid having buildings too air tight or you will end up with frost bite on their combs and toes from the humidity the birds themselves produce, particularly if there is no heat.
I have a heat lamp in the Serama house just as a back up but I still have several that sleep outside on the ladder rather than come in where it is warmer. I like to keep the buildings above 30 degrees if I can without getting crazy about heating. I have a group of chickens that slept outside on a metal rail all winter last winter in the bitter cold and none of them seemed worse for the wear. It again was their choice because that is where they wanted to roost.
As far as the GP's go this is my understanding, and it seems to be true. One dog as you say would be the lead dog. In my case it is my female. She is the one that goes out and runs everything off and barks and controls the perimeter. The second dog stays here with the birds and appears to be pretty lazy and worthless. But I understand he stays behind to protect the flock. It's like my DH said: If the female makes a certain sounding bark then the male gets up and runs toward her ready to eat up anything in the path. I think she lets him know when it's time to help. Before I got my male I saw coyotes circle my female when she was young. She was smart enough to retreat back toward the house and hide in the garage for a minute before resuming her bark and bluff to chase them away. She did fine on her own but I'm sure as a team they are more effective. Also I've noticed they patrol a larger area around the house and yard than just my female alone used to do. My daughter explained that they form a zone. Most of the time they use the bark, fluff and bluff to keep predators far outside their zone. But any animal that comes inside that zone is going to be in big trouble if he doesn't get out quick. She sent me a video a couple years ago of a couple pyrenees that used their barking, tail over their back, face and shoulders fluffed out and backed down a bear until it ran it off. My other daughter who lives in the mountains outside of Denver where there are lots of bear and foxes etc, says that everyone on the ranches in the mountains use pyrenees to protect their horses, sheep or whatever.
Trish, my female was and is the shy one and much less sociable than my male. But she is definitely the alpha dog and the true protector. Any of you who have been here can attest that the male is the lover and the female more standoffish.
Also it is a large working dog trait to be very protective over their food, beds, houses. My female always gets to eat first and my male stands and watches unless I fix two bowls and separate them. My female will chase anything away from her food bowl even if she has no intention of eating. She is the same way about her dog house and her bed. When we had pups there were always a couple who would take over the food bowl and growl at the other pups.
 
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I'm going to have a water heater in the coop-- making it out of a cookie tin. Well, that's my weekend project, anyway. I do plan on hanging a heat lamp in there, but I don't know that I'll use it unless it is absolutely miserable-- my babies are still pretty little, so I am a bit worried about them. I think once they get older, I'm not going to worry about the heat lamp. And also curious how much heat the cookie tin heater will put out. It might be enough I won't have to use the heat lamp at all for them.

I use a 250 watt stock tank heater that I bought from TSC, It is rated OK to be used with plastic. I use a 5 gallon bucket I bought from Lowes and nipples from QC Supply http://www.qcsupply.com/farm-livestock/waterers/nipple-waterers.html?animal=1231
 
One thing about the GPs food aggression. I've never seen any of these dogs bite when it comes to possession. They use the same bluffing techniques they would to get rid of a predator. It's like they are saying, "It's mine! Get back." My dog is always chasing the chickens from her food bowl and you'd think she could kill them so easily. But she never ever bites or grabs one. Just growls and pounces toward them. The chickens are smarter than you'd think. They sleep with Fluff the male and never get out of his way. They run from Marshmallow when she chases them from her food bowl, but then turn back around and come right back to it. they just stand about 3 feet out and wait until she gets tired of eating. Then they go eat out of her bowl. They have learned she won't really bite them.
Also Trish these dogs love grain. My dogs eat chicken feed all the time. In fact before I started getting my own mix made they were eating it better than their own dog food. And the chickens were eating the dog food. I've had several GP owners say their dogs were very fond of grain. It won't hurt them. In the winter especially I like to cook up some cheap meat, (usually pork) long cook rice(cheap!), and any veggies I can find. I feed this to them with or without their dog food. Dogs love veggies and grain. The only thing to be aware of is not to let their diet change too much too fast.
Also while we are on the subject. Any time a dog has an upset stomach or gets diarrhea from food change, or if you just want to give them a special treat, give them sweet potato. They love it, it is VERY good for them, and it settles their tummies. Mine got to split one this week with butter on it just because they've been working so hard lately. (The butter isn't necessary but it makes it even more yummy!
I do wish you had gotten a couple of my pups. The last litter has brought back nothing but excellent reports. The pups are 6 months old, huge already and working hard.
 
Okay, this photo is from a week or two back. (frost on the ground!) I have tried since then to get a better pic, but by the time Seymore sees me taking pictures, she jumps off and comes running full speed at me to be picked up and held. In fact, in this photo, she had already seen me and was near to jumping down. I need like a telephoto lens on my camera! LOL My back is killing me from working bent over and every which way under the coop today. I'm glad I do have the two sides done, but it always seems like I leave things undone even when I'm really trying. So annoyed. The silkies are eating their probiotic top dressing with no problems!! Yay!!! Yesterday they ate well and I refilled tonight and added more powder. They already seem so much better! The little splash is STILL sneezing though!! What on earth!? It's not very often now, but I did hear one tonight.

96635_onionturkey.jpg
 
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sharol, thanks they are really good pups.

Danz, I really was planning to get a pup from you, but when hubby was so worried about Jasmine being alone & said he would pay for the other one it just made sense to go ahead & get Lily too. It has worked out really well so far to have the sisters too, they're already comfortable with each other & I don't have to worry about whether they would get along or not. Lily is quite a bit bigger than Jasmine, but she may catch up in size as they grow. She was not the runt of the litter, but is just smaller than Lily by quite a bit. It was explained to me that maybe Lily was conceived ffirst & so she is gestationally older than Jasmine. She would have been born on time, but Jasmine may have actually been a premie, so she could still catch up in size. This made some sense to me because Jasmine does act a little younger in some ways than Lily, so it may explain why. Lily outweighs Jasmine probably right now by about 3 pounds or so. I had already made arrangements & paid my deposit on Jasmine before I found out your dog could be pregnant too & that was non-refundable, so I was locked in on that. If you look at their parents sizes though, Thor the father is a big guy & the mother is probably normal size or maybe slightly smaller, I'm not sure. She said the females from her usually range from 85-115 pounds. I will look forward to seeing pics of your pups though after they're born. They're really adorable fluff balls when they're little. I have been having a hard time not wanting to just hug them & make over them all the time. I know they're working dogs, but really how can you look at an adorable little puppy face & not want to love on it? I have tried not to make over them so much the last few days. I do want them to be good LGDs, after all that's what they're here for. But the first day I kind of ignored them they just looked at me like their feelings were hurt. I still talk to them when I go out & pet them when I feed them, but they do need to watch the chickens & learn to bond with them. They can walk into the coop with the chickens or out in the yard with them & not bother them at all. I think that's doing very well for 9 wk old pups.
 
Hawkeye, that is too funny! I have never seen a turkey ride a horse before. I also have never seen one that runs to you & likes to be held like yours. Are you going to get her a mate in the spring or is she just a pet?
 
I'm not getting emails when there are new posts. It is driving me crazy! It's a lot harder to track that way as well.I thought noone was posting yesterday at all until evening when I started reloading.
Hawkeye that is adorable. I've made up my mind to try to find some midget white turkeys. I can't find any right now which I would prefer but I sure plan to get some. You are the biggest inspiration for that. I love my wilds but they are still that. I love hearing their sounds. I want some I can play with and of course breed. Poults are so high. I can buy poults here and there for $6 a piece but midget whites aren't available.
I have a few chicks hatching today. I've lost a few of the babies here in the house. I need to take the larger ones out to the brooder because they run over the little ones. The chick dust is awful even with just one bin. I put another 40 Seramas eggs in the incubator last night. They are laying like crazy. I have a couple hens sitting as well.
Trish I really don't believe you are going to hurt those pups. Mine have been loved on so much and they are just the best. All of the last litter were totally humanized and everyone says what wonderful guard dogs they are. I think a lot of this information is passed down from breeder to breeder without them ever trying the human aspect. I've always wanted to ask one of these people if they ever tried to humanize a pup themselves and see what kind of dog it turned out to be.
Ivy has your Seramas started laying? Seramaslovers got a few eggs last week.
 
Danz, Well I know she reads this forum, so she sees my comments, but this breeder believes that the first 6 months are the crucial time for the pups to bond with your stock. She says if they bond to you they will be protecting you & not care if a predator gets in & eats your animals or birds. She said she has seen this happen. I was told there is a fine line between making a pet out of them & them being a good LGD. She says that after they are bonded to the stock then you can handle them all you want. She also said if they are doing their job they will not wander & won't leave what they're guarding.
 
I suppose people will always disagree. I agree that they need to bond with the stock the first 6 months but I don't agree that they can't bond to you in the same period. If you don't interact with the pups for 6 months you have lost your main window of getting them to protect and bond to you as well and to be able to work with them. It all depends on what kind of dog you want. Want a stock protector only that won't trust humans; leave them with the stock. Want a dog that bonds only to people, leave them with people only, want a dog that does both then give them both.
My dogs are friendly to other people as long as I'm around but I guarantee they won't act the same if I'm not here. But you can't ask for better stock protectors. They have an extra sense to know what is domestic and what is wild. I have introduced all kinds of livestock here, (pasture rental) and they just know which animals to keep away and which to protect. It's amazing though. I have some game birds and they know to protect them if they are in a pen and don't bother them. But if the same type bird is wild they will chase them off. How do they know??
I'm just glad to know that you are happy with your pups and that you have good stock. If the breed gets good feedback it helps me in the long run regardless if they are my dogs or not.
Trish about the size of pups: Dogs can have eggs fertilized successfully for about 5 days. As the eggs get older the viability becomes less. The pups are in different horns of the uterus and the ones born out of the last horn are usually the smaller pups. I am actually expecting a smaller litter this time around since my dog had such a big litter the first time. I really didn't want to breed her now. But this will be the last one for sure if she takes. It is so hard on them to raise a bunch of pups. I value her more than I value maybe making a few bucks on her pups.
 
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