Consolidated Kansas

[chicken danz]

I just figured out this morning that I HAVE to sign up for medicare. I didn't realize it wasn't an option. My insurance is now only going to pay as a secondary payment. I can see my health care going down hill drastically. I also have tons of forms to fill out which I am just not in the state of mind to do. Getting old really stinks! Being unhealthy stinks worse. You would think paying over $800 a month for health insurance they could still pay like always.
It's pretty chilly out there this morning. I unlike Karen am a woos and wait until it warms up before I venture out. I can hear all my baby ducks yelling because they are hungry and thirsty. I have so many it requires me to feed and water them several times a day. Sure glad the mama is keeping the Mandarin babies cared for. I noticed my water is running slow in my pond so I need to get out there and do some maintenance some where. I just cleaned and refilled that a few days ago.
I feel like I need a vacation but it sure isn't happening. Tell me things will slow down when spring is over!
Avery I don't fail to encourage people to get certified to test but lots of the people here don't have enough birds to warrant the expense. If I only had a few birds I certainly wouldn't pay those fees every year and buy the serum. Just sayin'.
I have some more babies hatching in the incubator. I am really dreading it because there just isn't any room anywhere for more babies. I guess I'm going to have to post an add and see if I can move some. I just hate dealing with the phone calls and the no shows that say they are coming and don't show up.

 

[averytds]

I'd have to read up on best crosses for red sex links, but have done blacks many times. Most of the EE's and Olive Eggers I've got running around in the laying flock were from a black AM roo over BRs and Cuckoo Marans hens. All I had to do was hatch as many as needed to get the number of girls I wanted and then stop. No long raising period to see if I had as many girls as I wanted. I raised the handful of fellas as meat birds right from the start.

If you want to be relatively sure the blue egg gene gets passed on, use an AM as one of the parents, not an EEer. There's always that chance the AM doesn't have 2 blue egg genes, but if from a reputable breeder, they most likely have both copies.

Danz-It's not about the number of birds you have, it's about what you're doing with them. Consider it a convenience fee for those who regularly show/sale birds. Handful of hens that never leave your backyard, well of course not, but more than just your county fair or wishing to regularly sale birds..... Rosie 4H & showing, Hawkeye 4H & showing. I admit, I don't pay enough attention to know about Ivy, but guessing she's got more going on than a handful of backyard birds.

Hawkeye-I became a tester after we were informed just days before state that DS's paperwork got lost somewhere between state and county and his birds would need retested. The list of certified testers is pitiful. No one could do it. They were all too far, out of antigen, only handled their own, had other commitments, etc. By sheer luck, the super from the 1st fair located her show form and the state agreed to accept it. It costs me approx $55 a year for our birds when I can get the antigen for around $20 (license fee $30). Ehhh...maybe another $15-$20 in fees to do all the other local kids birds at fair. IMHO the sheer convenience is worth it to me. If you decide to do it, we could meet sometime for a real world demo. It's not at all complicated.


When we went to the poultry clinic offered by Checoukan's club, I'll never forget my DS looking straight at the speaker when asked about beak and nail trims and saying "My mom uses power tools!"

However, it's so efficient, you can very quickly (like not even half a second) screw something up. That's why I make the kids do it "old school". Beaks and younger DD nails as well.

Road Trip this week for me=BBS AMs and Wheaton Marans

 

[chicken danz]

I don't show or breed for for color. But my obvious question is: How can you breed a hen of one breed with a rooster of another breed and still maintain it is a purebred chicken? I know that this is done over a period of years and breed backs to produce different colors and patterns but It still makes no sense to me how you can still call a widget a widget if it is crossed with a cog?
Just asking because I certainly don't intend to do any of this. I'm just curious.
On another subject, I got some long awaited hatching eggs from some of the nation's top quality mille fluer d'uccles yesterday freom Rhode Island. He was gracious enough to throw in a few porcelains as well. I've been waiting since November to get some of this guys eggs. Sure hope they hatch well. I will be putting them in the bator this afternoon. His packing job was one of the most secure I had ever seen. Rather than the questionable bubble wrap around the eggs he had them packed in a medium density saw dust/shavings then secured in an egg carton with tons of other padding around them. Those eggs were in better than perfect condition. Now if they are just fertile and nothing screws up.

 

[averytds]

I don't show or breed for for color. But my obvious question is: How can you breed a hen of one breed with a rooster of another breed and still maintain it is a purebred chicken? I know that this is done over a period of years and breed backs to produce different colors and patterns but It still makes no sense to me how you can still call a widget a widget if it is crossed with a cog?
Just asking because I certainly don't intend to do any of this. I'm just curious.

Is this about the sex-link EEers discussion or something else I missed? If it's about the EE discussion, EEers and sex links are hybrids or crosses. That's where the whole EE/AM probs come from. An EE is a cross between 2 different breeds, AMs and ?. EE and AM are not interchangeable. AM is purebred, EE is a hybrid.

 

[rvroman]

Does anybody have any input on homemade watering systems. I am looking to do something cheap and easy that is easy to refill. What I have now goes really quickly, and the ones that you can get at feed stores seem to get filled with the shavings really quickly.

 

[chicken danz]

I am talking in general, but the comments made reminded me of it. (This is an example only. I don't know all the steps.) In example, you have an orpington hen. You breed it to a cuckoo maran to get the barring, then you breed it to a white bird of who knows what, to get the light color, then you breed those back to more orpingtons and offspring to offspring and eventually you create a lemon cuckoo orpington. Or you breed an orpnington to a blue chicken and do all the breed backs and come up with a blue orpington. Now in all this breeding and cross breeding to achieve color how can you still call it a purebred orpington? I am not directing this particularly at you, don't misunderstand. I am asking anyone who does color breeding and showing of birds.
How many times can you breed something like an EE, sex link, production hen etc to something else and still call it by that name? Just another question that popped into my head. I could see someone selling eggs as say EE's that have none of the original characteristics in them if that continued for a few generations.
I am a very analytical type person so I think outside the box, but want to know everything that went into the box to begin with!!!

 

[cherwill]

Just checking in. Sorry so many are still sick. What in the world is going on?!

Karen, your set-up is fantastic; add me to the field trip. I love going to see what other people have done and to see what new ideas I can get.

Trish, I hope you can get those poor flippers straightened out. What a shame. You've put a lot into it; I hope they make it.

Too many days with not enough sleep has finally caught up with me. I'm groggy and dopey this morning. I have nothing much planned outside the house. I've done a little laundry and want to dust today, at least downstairs. At the moment, I can't get very excited about starting that. I'm going to lunch with a friend, then picking up my niece from school. On foot, since my nephew is still here. They might be finished with his car Thursday evening, but now they're not sure they saw anything wrong with the water pump they took out. I'm being all hopeful about it -- how would they know if something was wrong with it or not? They've been getting advice from a mechanic DH knows. I know it's not always an exact science, but the guy's been at it for 10 years so his educated guess is probably pretty good. I had thought I might walk down to Stutzman's and see if they have a butternut squash yet and find some kind of heat loving flowering plant for my wash tubs that won't grow anything else, but I might be too lazy for that today.

 

[averytds]

I am talking in general, but the comments made reminded me of it. (This is an example only. I don't know all the steps.) In example, you have an orpington hen. You breed it to a cuckoo maran to get the barring, then you breed it to a white bird of who knows what, to get the light color, then you breed those back to more orpingtons and offspring to offspring and eventually you create a lemon cuckoo orpington. Or you breed an orpnington to a blue chicken and do all the breed backs and come up with a blue orpington. Now in all this breeding and cross breeding to achieve color how can you still call it a purebred orpington? I am not directing this particularly at you, don't misunderstand. I am asking anyone who does color breeding and showing of birds.
How many times can you breed something like an EE, sex link, production hen etc to something else and still call it by that name? Just another question that popped into my head. I could see someone selling eggs as say EE's that have none of the original characteristics in them if that continued for a few generations.
I am a very analytical type person so I think outside the box, but want to know everything that went into the box to begin with!!!

Someone in the Okie thread just asked something similar.

In the EE, sex link, hybrid or cross case, that's just it. Part of being a breed is that the birds breed true with consistent genetics/results. Breeding two black sex links together, their offspring will not be black sex links. Because EEs are AM crosses, I don't go for EEs laying blue/green/pink(brown) eggs. Purebred AMs "should" have 2 copies of blue egg genes. Anything less should be the exception, not the norm. Therefore all EEs "should" lay blue or green eggs depending on what they were crossed with.

Gonna be general and broad, so fair warning to any genetic gurus. When it comes down to it, all chickens are technically mixes if you go back far enough. To become recognized as a breed though, the breed in question has to breed true. The parents with a certain genetic make-up have to produce offspring of the same make-up. The genetic make-up needs to be consistent throughout the breed.

Crossing in other breeds for colors or traits isn't a light or quick matter. To be done correctly, it's generally a really long process and cross candidates should be chosen with care. The idea is to bring in what you want to add genetically (the new color), but get everything else genetically back to what it should be for that breed. And they then need to breed true. Clear as mud?

 

[Ivywoods]

Good morning folks!

Has everyone got their caffiene titer up?

Danz- on the mixing breeds discussion. I don't raise mixbreeds, so anything I say comes from reading or talking with others. My focus on the matter is (excluding sexlinks and Easter eggers which are known as mixes or hybreds) mixing varieites in order to get a certain color or trait. The way this happens is that EVERYTHING in the poultry world is judged to a standard, specifically The Standard of Perfection, published by the APA. The standard not only describes what colors the bird should exhibit, but what the body type should look like, comb, legs, etc. It also describes what characteristics are considered faults or disqualifications.

To develop a new color or line of chicken often two separate breeds are combined to get the desired genetic mix. For example a well know breeder/exhibiter of old english recently bought a trio of black rosecombs from Checoukan. He is adding these to certain ones of his old english to develope a new strain. (GEE! I wish I could remember just exactly what he was working on... it will come to me eventually.) The rosecombs are very similar in type to the old english.

Once these mixes are developed, his old english, even though mixed with rosecombs MUST exhibit all the qualities of an old english. If they meet the "Standard" for old english, they are considered old english.

The main difference is whether or not they meet the standard. There is no "registry" as there is with dogs, horses, cattle and other animals. Registry has to link a specific offspring to one set of parents. Can you imagine doing that with chickens? That would mean single matings only, and although some breeders do this, there are very few. It would be a nightmare in my book.

Anyway, it all boils down to whether or not the bird in question meets the standard. That is where so many people get offended when they are told their ameraucanas or auracanas (two specific breeds) are really easter eggers. There are specific standards for ameraucanas and auracanas, and if the bird doesn't meet the standard it is not considered pure. Easter eggers are a mix to begin with, thus there is no standard. It is simply a chicken that lays a colored egg. There has been SO MUCH misunderstanding on this because so many hatcheries sell easter eggers and call them ameraucanas or auracanas. It's created a lot of hard feelings.

The other side to this coin is that yes, in these birds, back in their genetics lies some of the genetics for qualities that are not desirable in their breed. Eventually those faults or DQ's should be bred out.. Another example of that is with the black copper marans. Way back when they were brought into this country at least one breeder mixed their line with penendesencas. So now, some of the BCM's you see will have what's called a "carnation comb" or sometimes side sprigs. This is due to the penendesenca influence from the past. It doesn't exhibit in every chick, but the ones that have it should not be used as breeders.

Hope I made that understandable. I do not consider myself an expert on genetics, but I hope this is helpful.

 

[Ivywoods]

Avery- I think we cross posted, but we are on the same page. Mixing and developing new varieites is not a simple process and there is a lot of thought that goes into the process. I think you have to know a lot more about genetics than I do in order to do it right, and that's why I keep it simple and stick with the tried and true.

Simple chickens for simple folks like me!