Consolidated Kansas

[HEChicken]

First, thank you all for the info on LGD's. Josie, I'm with you - I really don't do puppies. I can see the point about them bonding with chickens if they're started that young but what I'd really like to do is find a Molly

. Thank you for offering to look out for me. I looked on Craigslist today and contacted one person about an ad they ran a few weeks back but of course the dog was gone and they just hadn't taken the ad down yet. There is one in Hutch but they're asking $300 and while I think a well trained dog is worth paying for, we've had so many expenses with the move that I'd really rather adopt one for a little less than that if I can find one.

I spent most of today nervously checking the birds every few minutes out the windows or in person. They were clearly freaked out by the horror of yesterday and spent the whole day within feet of the coop. Fortunately there is a lot of shade there. All was well and DH and I were eating dinner when I heard a sound. Now honestly, every time I heard a sound today I dashed to a window so I really didn't expect this sound to be any different. What I saw wouldn't have alarmed me yesterday but it did today. Several of the chickens were wandering in the chicken yard. Since they had stayed so close to the coop all day, I was concerned this meant the predator had returned so I grabbed my 9mm and RAN down to the coop, with DH in hot pursuit with his weapon of choice. Everything looked fine when I got there but a half dozen of the hens were in the chicken yard and when they saw me they ran full blast towards me and back to the coop, where they immediately ran behind the horse shelter to hide. Meanwhile Mama Sultan was hiding in the long grass behind the coop. I told DH - "its been here - I just know it. Look how they're all hiding". He went up to the house to get something and I pulled up my lawn chair next to the coop.

About 10 mins went by and I suddenly realized I was being watched by what I thought was a small coyote. It was 200' away from me on the other side of my far fence. I tried to sight my pistol on it but knew it just didn't have that kind of range. Just then DH came back out and I tried to signal to him to stop walking but he didn't see me. The "coyote" saw him and ran off our property and across the road. I told him it had been there and that I hadn't fired because it was too far away so he said he'd go get his AR-15 and went back to the house. While he was gone, I saw it come back across the road and then hide in the hedgerow. When DH got there I told him it was there but I couldn't see it right then. He had his AR-15 and had brought me a .22 Long Rifle. He decided to go sit on the front porch where he thought he might have a better chance of seeing it, and I stayed where I was. 20 minutes later I got a brief sighting but it disappeared again real fast. More time went by and the chickens started singing the egg song which I saw as a sign of distress. I figured they could see it but although I kept scanning back and forth, I couldn't. I was afraid it was coming up behind us and kept looking that way too. Nothing. The adrenaline was really pumping now. And then I saw it and it was close. I hadn't seen it earlier because I was still looking too far away. First it solved the question for me as to how it was getting in. It climbed my fence like it was a ladder. Halfway up it either fell or jumped off the fence. I had been trying to get it in the crosshairs but it was moving too fast and when it jumped off I thought it was headed back to the trees and I had lost my chance, but instead it stood and looked in the direction of DH. That gave me a chance to get it in the crosshairs and fire. It was a clean kill - one shot to the head and it dropped immediately. By the time I set the rifle down and ran over there it was dead. That was the first time I realized it was a fox and not a coyote. It looked pretty darn small lying there on the ground but it was hard to feel sorry for it given the devastation of the previous 24 hours.

In the time between hearing that sound and getting out there, it had managed to kill another duck. I later realized my little black chick hatched by Mama Sultan is also missing. Another hen was missing but I later found her in the sewer lagoon. She must have flown over that fence in a panic and was desperately trying to find a way back home. I was very relieved she was okay. My cuckoo marans was attacked and is in shock. She has several puncture wounds that I've treated with Neosporin. She is still walking and *looks* okay. I just hope she survives the shock and doesn't die of infection from the wounds. So between the 12 yesterday and the two today, with a third injured, that fox did a lot of damage.

I'm actually relieved it was a fox and not a neighborhood dog. The rampage - killing without eating them - looked like what a dog does to me. I've since researched it a little and what I learned is that foxes will kill a bunch and then bury them to return to later. Since he was interrupted he didn't get a chance to do that part. But I kind of can't blame him since he was just trying to survive. A dog doing it for play/fun/sport, would be harder to take.

I'm under no illusions it is "over". It is just over in the short-term. I can relax tonight and hopefully get the remaining birds over it before the next predator finds us. If I'm lucky I'll have LGD protection in place by then.

 

[sapphireblu76]

Heather, I would definitely recommend a Great Pyrenees. My dogs are bonded to the birds and the property. They have a certain distance they watch and will go after anything that comes in their circle. An ideal situation would be to live in the middle of your acreage I think. I have no fence but they seem to know where to patrol. When my male was younger he used to get carried away following any slow moving vehicle. He doesn't do that any more thank goodness. They are sweet and lovable pets but I know at least my female would tear into any one that tried to harm me too.
I think I would recommend a started pup. You want one that is fairly young so it can bond to you and the property,but you don't want it so young that you have to go through too many months of puppy stage. If you could find one that is between 4-9 months old I think you would be alright. Also since you have other dogs it needs to be young enough it won't see them as a threat. That is unless you got one as easy going as Josie female was. She is a one in a million rare Pyrenees. People often get them and need to rehome them because they live in town or have to move. I would definitely watch craigslist.
They actually don't eat as much as a lot of large dogs. A lot depends on how many predators are around, how hard they are working, and what the weather is.
I had a good last 24 hours or so. I sold 25 guineas. Then this morning I sold 120 ducklings. I still have about 50 of them left. The guy couldn't get any more money out of the ATM or he would have taken the rest of them.
Then Karen came and brought me some more beautiful chickens. We had a good visit although I probably cooked her in the heat. I am a terrible hostess. Thank you sweet lady.
Since then I have just moved the new birds to a bigger pen and been researching electric poultry netting. The kind I want is back ordered.
I've been playing with my turkey poults. They're so sweet. I've been working so hard lately it was nice to just chill for a while. I need to get busy but after all it is a holiday!

I love my poultry netting! It has made a world of difference for us. It will NOT keep in chicks or very small banties. My banties will stay in...until I set something outside the fence they want. Then, POP!, out they come.

Right now I'm more seriously thinking LGD. Its been on my mind off and on ever since we went under contract to buy the house. I had hoped that if I built a Fort Knox Coop and they were all safely in it at night, I would keep losses to a minimum, since I think of both raccoons and coyotes - the two I am most concerned about around here - as being mostly nocturnal hunters. And, I hoped the presence of our two dogs on the property would keep stray dogs at bay. Clearly that did not work as I would have liked. One of my dogs alerts to any car that turns in our driveway and any person she sees around here. I guess I kind of thought she would also alert to seeing a strange dog even if she didn't guard by chasing it off but....neither dog let us know anything was going on. So now I'm back to thinking about an actual LGD. DH is not excited about the idea of taking on another dependent but he also knows how much the poultry mean to me and how devastating this has been, so I think he will agree.

So I have a question for those with LGD's. My set up is that my 10-acres is fenced all the way around but only for large livestock - horses/cattle. I.e. goats/sheep/dogs/coyotes and anything smaller can run right through. So - I fenced the chicken yard with 5' high welded wire fence. I know hardware cloth is stronger but my yard is not a pen - it is 240x60 and the cost of doing that in hardware cloth was prohibitive. Even the fencing I put up was not exactly cheap. It is certainly good enough to keep the chickens in and - I thought - would have kept dogs out. Anyway, if I were to get a LGD how would you see it working? The way I see it I have two options. Either the dog lives IN the chicken yard with the chickens (where it would have 14400 sq ft of space). We could put our dogloo (dog igloo) in there for it to sleep in. Or, the dog lives outside the chicken yard, wears a collar for the invisible fence and can roam the acreage as our two dogs can now. The problem I see with the latter option is that the dog has no direct contact with the animals it is guarding, so how does it know that's what its guarding? And it could chase away something before it got into the yard but if that something got in the yard, the LGD would have no recourse to get it out. Okay, after thinking that all out loud, it seems obvious the LGD has to live IN the chicken yard. Its a huge space for chickens and honestly, I think it is a decent space for a dog too but what do y'all think?

(And yes I know its better to have two LGD's. But I fear the chicken yard isn't enough space for two dogs and that DH won't agree to TWO more dependents).

I had mine in with the chickens and all was well until new birds were added. That's when we had the neck tearing issues, BUT he is a pup and is still bonded to the birds. I think he was just bored and didn't mean to hurt them. He is now out of the chicken yard and patrols around it. He has not left the property and doesn't seem to have the desire to. He does have a rather large "treasure" pile in the back yard and he has a dug out back there. It's a GP thing, I think they're all kleptos, lol.

Update: It was a fox and I got him! Will fill in the details later - need to go clean up now.

WOO HOO!

First, thank you all for the info on LGD's. Josie, I'm with you - I really don't do puppies. I can see the point about them bonding with chickens if they're started that young but what I'd really like to do is find a Molly

. Thank you for offering to look out for me. I looked on Craigslist today and contacted one person about an ad they ran a few weeks back but of course the dog was gone and they just hadn't taken the ad down yet. There is one in Hutch but they're asking $300 and while I think a well trained dog is worth paying for, we've had so many expenses with the move that I'd really rather adopt one for a little less than that if I can find one.

I spent most of today nervously checking the birds every few minutes out the windows or in person. They were clearly freaked out by the horror of yesterday and spent the whole day within feet of the coop. Fortunately there is a lot of shade there. All was well and DH and I were eating dinner when I heard a sound. Now honestly, every time I heard a sound today I dashed to a window so I really didn't expect this sound to be any different. What I saw wouldn't have alarmed me yesterday but it did today. Several of the chickens were wandering in the chicken yard. Since they had stayed so close to the coop all day, I was concerned this meant the predator had returned so I grabbed my 9mm and RAN down to the coop, with DH in hot pursuit with his weapon of choice. Everything looked fine when I got there but a half dozen of the hens were in the chicken yard and when they saw me they ran full blast towards me and back to the coop, where they immediately ran behind the horse shelter to hide. Meanwhile Mama Sultan was hiding in the long grass behind the coop. I told DH - "its been here - I just know it. Look how they're all hiding". He went up to the house to get something and I pulled up my lawn chair next to the coop.

About 10 mins went by and I suddenly realized I was being watched by what I thought was a small coyote. It was 200' away from me on the other side of my far fence. I tried to sight my pistol on it but knew it just didn't have that kind of range. Just then DH came back out and I tried to signal to him to stop walking but he didn't see me. The "coyote" saw him and ran off our property and across the road. I told him it had been there and that I hadn't fired because it was too far away so he said he'd go get his AR-15 and went back to the house. While he was gone, I saw it come back across the road and then hide in the hedgerow. When DH got there I told him it was there but I couldn't see it right then. He had his AR-15 and had brought me a .22 Long Rifle. He decided to go sit on the front porch where he thought he might have a better chance of seeing it, and I stayed where I was. 20 minutes later I got a brief sighting but it disappeared again real fast. More time went by and the chickens started singing the egg song which I saw as a sign of distress. I figured they could see it but although I kept scanning back and forth, I couldn't. I was afraid it was coming up behind us and kept looking that way too. Nothing. The adrenaline was really pumping now. And then I saw it and it was close. I hadn't seen it earlier because I was still looking too far away. First it solved the question for me as to how it was getting in. It climbed my fence like it was a ladder. Halfway up it either fell or jumped off the fence. I had been trying to get it in the crosshairs but it was moving too fast and when it jumped off I thought it was headed back to the trees and I had lost my chance, but instead it stood and looked in the direction of DH. That gave me a chance to get it in the crosshairs and fire. It was a clean kill - one shot to the head and it dropped immediately. By the time I set the rifle down and ran over there it was dead. That was the first time I realized it was a fox and not a coyote. It looked pretty darn small lying there on the ground but it was hard to feel sorry for it given the devastation of the previous 24 hours.

In the time between hearing that sound and getting out there, it had managed to kill another duck. I later realized my little black chick hatched by Mama Sultan is also missing. Another hen was missing but I later found her in the sewer lagoon. She must have flown over that fence in a panic and was desperately trying to find a way back home. I was very relieved she was okay. My cuckoo marans was attacked and is in shock. She has several puncture wounds that I've treated with Neosporin. She is still walking and *looks* okay. I just hope she survives the shock and doesn't die of infection from the wounds. So between the 12 yesterday and the two today, with a third injured, that fox did a lot of damage.

I'm actually relieved it was a fox and not a neighborhood dog. The rampage - killing without eating them - looked like what a dog does to me. I've since researched it a little and what I learned is that foxes will kill a bunch and then bury them to return to later. Since he was interrupted he didn't get a chance to do that part. But I kind of can't blame him since he was just trying to survive. A dog doing it for play/fun/sport, would be harder to take.

I'm under no illusions it is "over". It is just over in the short-term. I can relax tonight and hopefully get the remaining birds over it before the next predator finds us. If I'm lucky I'll have LGD protection in place by then.

Wow, amazing one little fox did so much damage. I really hope you won't have anymore problems like that.

 

[chicken danz]

HEchicken you are so lucky to have gotten that fox. It could have wiped out your entire flock in a matter of a day. Lets hope it doesn't have brothers and sisters near by. If you do get an older Pyrenees you need to be sure it has been around chickens and you will have to do some extensive training with your other dogs so they don't fight. It can be done but you have to show it that the dogs belong there and there is not reason for them to feel uncomfortable around them.
One more thing. A pyrenees doesn't get fully mature until they are about 2 1/2. I know that is a long time to have some of that puppy bahavior. A female will act mature a lot sooner. You are still going to see some of that pack rat behavior unless the dog is over that age. Normally though, they have a special spot they like to drag their goodies to chew on. But the way I see it a little yard grooming or mess in my case is worth putting up with for a while in exchange for the ultimate in protection. If you get an older dog you are going to be dealing with a shorter life span. These dogs normally live to about 10 years old. I know some live much longer but that is their life expectancy. Other than that though they aren't so much like a normal puppy. They are very serious about their work.
One thing to keep in mind is that they will help protect any other animals you have there. Horses, cattle, goats, etc. If you domesticate it it becomes part of their "property" to protect.
Well I am excited! My one lone fertile peafowl egg hatched. It is still wet and not being active at all. I'll give it some time to dry out and make sure it is going to be okay. Here comes the fun of getting it to eat. I sure hope I don't have the trouble you have had Trish. No problems hatching it at all. Doesn't make up for the non-fertile eggs but I am happy it hatched.

 

[HEChicken]

Congrats on the peachick! I hope you don't have the issues getting it to eat like Theresa did.

Thanks also for the input on the Pyrenees. I do have another question: how do you all handle vacations? Personally I don't really care to be gone - I'm a home body and vacations just stress me out with the preparations before, the unpacking after and the worry while we're gone about how our animals are faring. Nevertheless, my kids and DH do like to travel so inevitably we have to go away for a week or two here or there. Normally we board our dogs while we're gone but the point of the LGD is to protect the livestock so we would want it to stay here and protect even more while we're gone. But if they are that protective, will it be an issue having someone come by daily to feed him/her? More likely than not, it would be my next door neighbor and we could do introductions so that the dog knows the neighbor, but will that be enough? Will he or she feel the need to protect the property even from the neighbor? And if so, how do you handle feedings when you are gone?

Yes, I am still riding a high that the imminent danger of the fox is gone. The flock seems to know the danger has passed too, and were out in their chicken yard early this morning. Sadly, I don't think my Cuckoo Marans is going to make it. I lifted her on the roost last night, then set my alarm to get up at daybreak this morning to lift her down so she didn't have to exert herself. She still looks alert but when I set her in front of first the feed and then the water, she didn't partake. I've treated her wounds but the shock may be too much for her. The fox also got my prize hen - my BCM, who was from breeder stock and a super high quality bird. She lay beautiful dark eggs. And, it got all my up and coming olive eggers too. So all I have left are 2 white egg layers (one isn't laying yet) and the rest light brown eggs. All I've ever wanted is a colorful egg basket but my green egg layer, my marans and my olive eggers were all among the casualties so it is doubly disappointing.

Thankfully my favorite little hen - the grey one I've posted pics of in the past - survived the mayhem. I always feared she would be the first lost because she is SOOO friendly she doesn't seem to have much in the way of survival instincts, but she surprised me by surviving both attacks. I guess she found a good hiding place and hightailed it there. After the first attack there seemed to be dead bodies everywhere, so when I found her hiding, those were the only tears I shed - tears of relief that she was okay. And it warmed my heart last night when she indicated trust in me. 30 mins after the fox was dispatched, she was still in hiding along with the rest of the ducks, a couple of other hens and a guinea (btw, ALL of the guineas survived this!) I went to the entrance of where I knew they were and called her, telling her it was safe to come out now and she responded immediately by walking towards me. The rest followed. I was honestly stunned - I expected they wouldn't come out until THEY felt it was safe - not just on my say-so.

 

[Hawkeye95]

Well our party was so much fun last night! We ended up having so many extra people call us last minute to tell us they were coming-- like 10 people called and said they were coming and bringing a friend! We ran to the store before everyone got there to buy a bit extra hamburger. But it all worked out well! I know we were well over 60 people, but don't know the exact count. We did have several tiny grass fires start where the fire works were shot. But nothing that a good stomping on couldn't stop. Last year wasn't even this bad. And I had been watering the lawn out there for two days straight! But we have water hoses, buckets and people all ready to move on anything. It was fun, but I'm glad it's behind me now so that we can concentrate on the Fair, now. And the house hasn't been this clean since last year at this time. LOL! So it's kind of nice. Although, I do have a lot of clean up to do out there. I usually spend a good two days of working morning/evening picking up spent fireworks that people left. I already spent about an hour out there this morning, but it's waaaaay hotter than a morning should be! I was dying.

HeChicken, that is an amazing story! I would not have thought a fox would work like that, but apparently, so! Good to know. Sounds like you are an amazing shot, too! I've seen fox around here, but they are so small, I don't think I would have mistaken them for a coyote. And ours are kind of red looking, too. I never see them on our property, just as road kill around our place. Oh, and I guess a couple of months ago, I did see one cross the road right in front of me as I was coming home. He was kind of a red color too. What color was yours? That is amazing he scaled your fence like a ladder-- I mean, really!! I never would have guessed! That is crazy scary what they can accomplish in such a short time! This really worries me now. My DH are going to be building a covered pen this Fall, but I sure hope in the meantime, that we don't have any run ins with fox. Sounds like they do an awful lot of running around during the day time. I'm so sorry about your duck, chick and your injured marans from yesterday. He would have had everyone killed with in a few hours. Good thing you got him.

Danz, I hope your pea hangs in there and will eat just fine for you! That is exciting that you had one hatch, though. Was that out of your shipped eggs? If so, that is terrible odds. I hope any other shipments do better for you. I had no idea how difficult it was to incubate and brood them. WOW.

Trish, how is your little pea doing? I hope he is getting the hang of eating and drinking.

 

[Hawkeye95]

Congrats on the peachick! I hope you don't have the issues getting it to eat like Theresa did.


Thankfully my favorite little hen - the grey one I've posted pics of in the past - survived the mayhem. I always feared she would be the first lost because she is SOOO friendly she doesn't seem to have much in the way of survival instincts, but she surprised me by surviving both attacks. I guess she found a good hiding place and hightailed it there. After the first attack there seemed to be dead bodies everywhere, so when I found her hiding, those were the only tears I shed - tears of relief that she was okay. And it warmed my heart last night when she indicated trust in me. 30 mins after the fox was dispatched, she was still in hiding along with the rest of the ducks, a couple of other hens and a guinea (btw, ALL of the guineas survived this!) I went to the entrance of where I knew they were and called her, telling her it was safe to come out now and she responded immediately by walking towards me. The rest followed. I was honestly stunned - I expected they wouldn't come out until THEY felt it was safe - not just on my say-so.

I'm so glad your little hen made it that is so friendly. Sounds like she really trusts you.

 

[GardenMacgyver]

This thread seems too long to look through all of it

 

[Hawkeye95]

This thread seems too long to look through all of it

No need to look through all of it! Just dive right in right here! WELCOME to the Kansas thread! Are you near the Wichita area? We have a lot of folks all over here! If you have questions or just want to chat, jump right in!!

 

[sharol]

This is more of an ongoing conversation among a group of people with similar interests from a similar location. If you go back 3 or 4 pages, you will get a sense of that. There is another Kansas thread, I think, that is a bit less conversation centered. Welcome to the Consolidated Kansas thread, though.

Where are you from?

This thread seems too long to look through all of it

 

[HEChicken]

Well our party was so much fun last night! We ended up having so many extra people call us last minute to tell us they were coming-- like 10 people called and said they were coming and bringing a friend! We ran to the store before everyone got there to buy a bit extra hamburger. But it all worked out well! I know we were well over 60 people, but don't know the exact count. We did have several tiny grass fires start where the fire works were shot. But nothing that a good stomping on couldn't stop. Last year wasn't even this bad. And I had been watering the lawn out there for two days straight! But we have water hoses, buckets and people all ready to move on anything. It was fun, but I'm glad it's behind me now so that we can concentrate on the Fair, now. And the house hasn't been this clean since last year at this time. LOL! So it's kind of nice. Although, I do have a lot of clean up to do out there. I usually spend a good two days of working morning/evening picking up spent fireworks that people left. I already spent about an hour out there this morning, but it's waaaaay hotter than a morning should be! I was dying.

HeChicken, that is an amazing story! I would not have thought a fox would work like that, but apparently, so! Good to know. Sounds like you are an amazing shot, too! I've seen fox around here, but they are so small, I don't think I would have mistaken them for a coyote. And ours are kind of red looking, too. I never see them on our property, just as road kill around our place. Oh, and I guess a couple of months ago, I did see one cross the road right in front of me as I was coming home. He was kind of a red color too. What color was yours? That is amazing he scaled your fence like a ladder-- I mean, really!! I never would have guessed! That is crazy scary what they can accomplish in such a short time! This really worries me now. My DH are going to be building a covered pen this Fall, but I sure hope in the meantime, that we don't have any run ins with fox. Sounds like they do an awful lot of running around during the day time. I'm so sorry about your duck, chick and your injured marans from yesterday. He would have had everyone killed with in a few hours. Good thing you got him.

I'm glad your party went so well - I am so impressed you would have that number of people over - I don't think I could do that. I know what you mean about the clean house. I clean way more when I know people are coming over and I really shouldn't because I enjoy it so much when it is that clean that I really should do it more just for us. I can usually think of things I'd rather be doing though, so its easy to fall behind and then I invite people over and do a mad cleaning to get it presentable for them. Silly, silly.

There was actually a moment when I first saw it that I thought "Those ears are so big - it looks more like a fox". But the neighbors tell us all the time there are coyotes around here and never said anything about foxes so I kind of dismissed that thought and just assumed it was a coyote. There was a lot of dust in the air last night because several cars drove by while I was out there so visibility was a little hazy. He was a red fox, but I couldn't see the color through the haze until after he was dead.

This thread seems too long to look through all of it

We should have a smiley for "Welcome to the Kansas Thread". Tell us more about yourself - what kind of flock do you have?

No need to look through all of it! Just dive right in right here! WELCOME to the Kansas thread! Are you near the Wichita area? We have a lot of folks all over here! If you have questions or just want to chat, jump right in!!

x2. Actually, this thread was started in 2009 so you really wouldn't want to start from the beginning now - the discussions would be pretty outdated. We chat a lot about things both poultry and non-poultry related, and I find this a GREAT resource for asking questions. I do browse the general forum too, but there is such a wealth of knowledge among the poultry keepers on the Kansas thread that I often find I get better answers to questions here than there.